Post-Game Talk: A Quick thread

[guymez]

If I was a betting man (I'm not) I'd have bet that the team wasn't a playoff team after the opening 2 games vs Vancouver... it was that clear that something was "off" with the team.

If using an analytical mind I think I'd still bet on missing the playoffs because of how up and down the team is BUT they've shown a lot more positives than negatives since the coaching change so there's definitely been a psychological change collectively on the team and they've dragged their goal differential back to positive again... a very positive sign since it was so deep in the gutter early on.

Now they are likely a coin flip to make it or not and it can go either way depending on injuries/slumps etc the rest of the season. That's a lot better though than the 100% chance they weren't going to make it under Woodcroft though as they were clearly in a psychological rut since the loss to Vegas.

Man...like most Oilers fans I have had a lot of doubts about this team since those first 2 games. That was some kind of ugly and made worse by the big talk about how it was a cup or bust season. That was some obvious immaturity from the leadership group in my opinion. They were putting it out to the entire League that they were one of the teams to beat.
The team wasnt ready for the fact that the entire League was going to be ready for them...the big talking self appointed SC contender.
Teams were going to play them very tough each and every night. Vancouver (a very well coached team) exposed that right from day 1 and it took a couple of months for this team to recover,
Adversity can build resilience though and so this may turn out to be a positive.

I think what we may be witnessing here is the growth of a leadership group and the team.

The question is...can they grow enough from being a 2nd tier SC contender to a legit SC contender.
I still think that they need a goaltender and some additional pieces (3rd line centre...a pipedream but I sure wanted them to sign Ryan O'Reilly).
They do however have the core and some very solid coaching so if they can remain resilient and get a few pieces then this team will be a legit SC contender IMO.

 

[brentashton]

Man...like most Oilers fans I have had a lot of doubts about this team since those first 2 games. That was some kind of ugly and made worse by the big talk about how it was a cup or bust season. That was some obvious immaturity from the leadership group in my opinion. They were putting it out to the entire League that they were one of the teams to beat.
The team wasnt ready for the fact that the entire League was going to be ready for them...the big talking self appointed SC contender.
Teams were going to play them very tough each and every night. Vancouver (a very well coached team) exposed that right from day 1 and it took a couple of months for this team to recover,
Adversity can build resilience though and so this may turn out to be a positive.

I think what we may be witnessing here is the growth of a leadership group and the team.

The question is...can they grow enough from being a 2nd tier SC contender to a legit SC contender.
I still think that they need a goaltender and some additional pieces (3rd line centre...a pipedream but I sure wanted them to sign Ryan O'Reilly).
They do however have the core if they can remain resilient and get a few pieces then this team will be a legit SC contender.

They have this year to show significant growth or else the core walks.

 

[guymez]

They have this year to show significant growth or else the core walks.

Hopefully Holland (and Jackson) are fully aware of that and act accordingly.
Not do something desperate but do something congruant with the current circumstances.

 

[PositiveCashFlow]

He still hasn’t put McDrai together other than the PP and after a PK has he? I’m impressed

 

[guymez]

He still hasn’t put McDrai together other than the PP and after a PK has he? I’m impressed

That first line of McDavid, Hyman and RNH is just too good to split up.

That aside I get the sense that Knoblauch understands that this is a much tougher team to play against when McDavid and Draisaitl are centering their own line.

 

[Oilhawks]

They have this year to show significant growth or else the core walks.

To be fair, the leadership of the core, particularly when the chips are down and they make bold claims of ‘cup or bust’ is a big part of the significant growth required. Hopefully they continue to show commitment to growth of their team

 

[Soundwave]

To be fair, the leadership of the core, particularly when the chips are down and they make bold claims of ‘cup or bust’ is a big part of the significant growth required. Hopefully they continue to show commitment to growth of their team

Connor and Leon are ready to win a Cup now.

It's the management that is light years behind them because they suck.

Every regular season is basically the same thing for us for the last few years ... wild ups and wild downs because the defense isn't very good, the forward depth is often lacking (how long are they going to look for a 2nd line RW?), and most especially they can't find a starting goalie who isn't 40 years old.

But we have red hot upswings too especially when Connor is cooking at 2 PPG+ for stretches.

That's why the team is up and down "like a toilet seat" (to quote Holland himself). That's not on Connor and Leon, any two "leaders" in the NHL would be subject to the same wild swings with poor defense and poor goaltending behind them.


Instead of a "normal" regular season, we get this up and down ride every year.

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

Connor and Leon are ready to win a Cup now.

They want to win a cup but I would argue they are not ready, at least leon. This season has proved that. At the beginning of the season when the D and goalies sucked count the blind pass giveaways from those two. They need to mature.

The oilers braintrust have no brains, and league average goaltending hides a lot of these things, but when this team is shitting the bed in epic fashion, the stars are often playing the wrong way. This roster, even with below average goaltending, should have a better record.


The poor starts, fancy/soft plays, lack of structure, no shows in battle, all starts at the top imo.

McDavid gets a pass, because when he's feeling it he is a 200 foot monster, but Leon has such bad habits that even at his best he can still be a minus player. That has got to change

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Vinny D has developed a lot in the last year and has shown he can think fast enough at this level

Still only 27 years but UFA next year. I bet there is a market for him and he's pretty valuable to us already. I would hope the oilers are trying to get a short term cheap deal done asap before he hits market, I could see someone willing to overpay

I thought he was placeholder at best last year but you take him out the lineup right now and we are much worse imo

With them not getting jerked around by the team trying to fit Broberg in as a 7th defenceman, Kulak and VD have stabilised a ton. Broberg, for his part, also looks far better getting big minutes in AHL (5pts in 11 games and a +5).

Last year running 7 defenceman made sense, as Vinny subbed in for Bouchard or Barrie during clear defensive situations. But it's a harder to make a distinction in roles between Vinny and Broberg, and it becomes borderline impossible to let either get into a flow. Same with Kulak, who was getting a new partner every couple shifts without much rhyme or reason.

 

[SaltNPeca]

Brown's best play of the season was when he blocked that shot

On the espn broadcast Ferraro was saying that Knob shoulda had Brownie out more, to crack his goose egg.

Why does beating the rangers feel so good?

Because they're a legit cup contender who were more than ready for this matchup. Oilers came back on them embarrassingly recently AND that thing where Connor literally walked their whole team. Edmonton is a bit of a fragile team playing in a back-to-back. Also their last game before XMas break, at home.

imo Quick nearly single-handedly kept them ahead with his PK stops. They let him down big time with that collapse. They showed how proud, committed, & dangerous they are by getting it to within 1 with 0.1 s left.

 

[Soundwave]

They want to win a cup but I would argue they are not ready, at least leon. This season has proved that. At the beginning of the season when the D and goalies sucked count the blind pass giveaways from those two. They need to mature.

The oilers braintrust have no brains, and league average goaltending hides a lot of these things, but when this team is shitting the bed in epic fashion, the stars are often playing the wrong way. This roster, even with below average goaltending, should have a better record.


The poor starts, fancy/soft plays, lack of structure, no shows in battle, all starts at the top imo.

McDavid gets a pass, because when he's feeling it he is a 200 foot monster, but Leon has such bad habits that even at his best he can still be a minus player. That has got to change

Counter point:

Leon Draisaitl is no.3 in the NHL's all time playoffs ppg, behind only Gretzky and Lemieux (and he's actually been tied with Lemieux at times).

He's the greatest playoff scorer in modern NHL history.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have some flaws, but lets not gloss over that like it's some small thing. No one performs like he does in the playoffs unless you go back to Wayne/Mario. Not McDavid, not MacKinnon, not Crosby, not Malkin, not Ovechkin, not Patrick Kane, not Toews, not Yzerman, not Datsyuk ... nobody.

 

[Drivesaitl]

To be fair, the leadership of the core, particularly when the chips are down and they make bold claims of ‘cup or bust’ is a big part of the significant growth required. Hopefully they continue to show commitment to growth of their team

Sure. But what would the same commitment look like if we ever had a goalie that was good, that provided belief. The most important position in hockey and so impactful. Of course the Panthers, for example are not a better club, they do not have better leadership, they have allstar goaltending that got em far.

Was it Leon only that said cup or bust or was it McD too. Can't remember. Not something I want to here them say in anycase. Leon is often careless in his statements.

 

[Soundwave]

Sure. But what would the same commitment look like if we ever had a goalie that was good, that provided belief. The most important position in hockey and so impactful. Of course the Panthers, for example are not a better club, they do not have better leadership, they have allstar goaltending that got em far.

Was it Leon only that said cup or bust or was it McD too. Can't remember. Not something I want to here them say in anycase. Leon is often careless in his statements.

The other funny thing about this is no one will admit it now but the 2005-06 Oilers had plenty of questioning of their leadership, Pronger especially had a bit of a rough start that year and then they had gone to the Olympics and Canada lost and there was a group of people blaming him as one of the major reasons why.

I remember being told "this Pronger guy doesn't have it, career choker, won nothing in St. Louis, sucked for Canada in the Olympics, won't do anything with the Oilers".

lol. Well 4 months later ... funny how a Dwayne Roloson added changes the equation quite a bit.

 

[Stoneman89]

The other funny thing about this is no one will admit it now but the 2005-06 Oilers had plenty of questioning of their leadership, Pronger especially had a bit of a rough start that year and then they had gone to the Olympics and Canada lost and there was a group of people blaming him as one of the major reasons why.

I remember being told "this Pronger guy doesn't have it, career choker, won nothing in St. Louis, sucked for Canada in the Olympics, won't do anything with the Oilers".

lol. Well 4 months later ... funny how a Dwayne Roloson added changes the equation quite a bit.

Pronger's big issue at the start of the year and then beyond was getting used to the NHL's new obstruction rules. Took a while for him, and a whole lot of guys who were used to the old clutch and grab of the dead puck era, but when he figured it out, he took off. And then the other large issue was terrible, inconsistent goaltending from a 3 headed monster. Even Rollie struggled a bit when he came over, but they had just enough gas left to sneak in, combined with the Canucks gagging.

 

[Oilhawks]

Sure. But what would the same commitment look like if we ever had a goalie that was good, that provided belief. The most important position in hockey and so impactful. Of course the Panthers, for example are not a better club, they do not have better leadership, they have allstar goaltending that got em far.

Was it Leon only that said cup or bust or was it McD too. Can't remember. Not something I want to here them say in anycase. Leon is often careless in his statements.

True, but Bobrovsky was looking like a dud (as he often does) and they started the playoffs with a third stringer that had saved their season. They had no guarantee in net and it wasn’t until that third stringer did poorly in the playoffs that Bob took over and kept them in until the finals.

I don’t like what I see when things aren’t going their way, the last two games have been positive signs away from the habits to compound goaltending or D issues instead.

Hoping that continues and another goalie is brought in.

 

[jesusbuiltmyhotrod]

They have this year to show significant growth or else the core walks.

Mcdavid and drai themselves need to mature more imo..They are often guilty of not covering the middle and lapse on defense. Not winning a cup until that changes. They were some of the worst offenders in the early season fall. They are the leaders , so surely some of it is on them, when the team at times looks like one of the worse in the NHL.

 

[Soundwave]

Pronger's big issue at the start of the year and then beyond was getting used to the NHL's new obstruction rules. Took a while for him, and a whole lot of guys who were used to the old clutch and grab of the dead puck era, but when he figured it out, he took off. And then the other large issue was terrible, inconsistent goaltending from a 3 headed monster. Even Rollie struggled a bit when he came over, but they had just enough gas left to sneak in, combined with the Canucks gagging.

Yeah but getting lectured by a Flames fan on Pronger being a "career choker who won nothing in St. Louis with good teams and killed Canada at the Olympics" was pretty funny a few months later.

Mcdavid and drai themselves need to mature more imo..They are often guilty of not covering the middle and lapse on defense. Not winning a cup until that changes. They were some of the worst offenders in the early season fall. They are the leaders , so surely some of it is on them, when the team at times looks like one of the worse in the NHL.

Imagine looking at this team and saying the no.3 and no.4 career all time PPG in the playoffs are the issue.

The issue is your dog shit management, bottom 5 in the league. Really that's all their is to it, on a more competently run team they'd at least have been in the Finals already, maybe won a Cup.

There's no two forwards you could replace Connor/Leon with and IMO have better results. We saw Crosby/Malkin with bad goaltending for a few years there were MAF struggled ... they were a 1st/2nd round exit every year too.

 

[Coffey]

I just realized, the hell is going on with Nurse? On pace for his worst season points wise in a long time.

 

[jesusbuiltmyhotrod]

Sure. But what would the same commitment look like if we ever had a goalie that was good, that provided belief. The most important position in hockey and so impactful. Of course the Panthers, for example are not a better club, they do not have better leadership, they have allstar goaltending that got em far.

Was it Leon only that said cup or bust or was it McD too. Can't remember. Not something I want to here them say in anycase. Leon is often careless in his statements.

It's a chicken or egg argument...Skinner started looking a lot better when the team was not playing mickey mouse D in front of him, the two go hand in hand. Skinner has struggled at times but other goaaies have too and it has not led to a team to weaken on effort..That is a poor example of leadership imo, which is counter to your point.

Yeah but getting lectured by a Flames fan on Pronger being a "career choker who won nothing in St. Louis with good teams and killed Canada at the Olympics" was pretty funny a few months later.



Imagine looking at this team and saying the no.3 and no.4 career all time PPG in the playoffs are the issue.

The issue is your dog shit management, bottom 5 in the league. Really that's all their is to it, on a more competently run team they'd at least have been in the Finals already, maybe won a Cup.

There's no two forwards you could replace Connor/Leon with and IMO have better results. We saw Crosby/Malkin with bad goaltending for a few years there were MAF struggled ... they were a 1st/2nd round exit every year too.

Can you even read..not once did I say they were the issue..only that they themselves can still improve...people like you who put words in peoples mouth belong on ignore. They are leaders..so they get all the glory and are beyond criticism? That is a sheeps mentality.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's a chicken or egg argument...Skinner started looking a lot better when the team was not playing mickey mouse D in front of him, the two go hand in hand. Skinner has struggled at times but other goaaies have too and it has not led to a team to weaken on effort..That is a poor example of leadership imo, which is counter to your point.


Can you even read..not once did I say they were the issue..only that they themselves can still improve...people like you who put words in peoples mouth belong on ignore.

Is it really. look at how most clubs get far in playoffs. Invariably by elite or hot goaltending. Nothing else does it. To win multiple series you need the goaltending, and you need it to be on top of its game every night.

 

[jesusbuiltmyhotrod]

Is it really. look at how most clubs get far in playoffs. Invariably by elite or hot goaltending. Nothing else does it. To win multiple series you need the goaltending, and you need it to be on top of its game every night.

Sure , I agree, but that has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Pronger's big issue at the start of the year and then beyond was getting used to the NHL's new obstruction rules. Took a while for him, and a whole lot of guys who were used to the old clutch and grab of the dead puck era, but when he figured it out, he took off. And then the other large issue was terrible, inconsistent goaltending from a 3 headed monster. Even Rollie struggled a bit when he came over, but they had just enough gas left to sneak in, combined with the Canucks gagging.

But a team forges belief when it sees goaltending starting to happen. It did with the Oilers of 06, it did in 97,98 etc with Cujo. Significantly it also did in 90 when the Oilers discovered they had a goalie in Ranford. The team didn't believe, and they were headed first round exit, until Ranford settled down and gave them the belief. Hockey is so predicated on goaltending. Even with SC caliber clubs.

Sure , I agree, but that has nothing to do with what I said.

I'm like that sometimes, lol

jk aside goaltending can be both chicken, and egg in hockey. Is that clearer?

 

[Arpeggio]

I just realized, the hell is going on with Nurse? On pace for his worst season points wise in a long time.

View attachment 789911

If I had to guess, it would be that it seems like Ekholm and Bouchard get all of the McDavid minutes. Plus, prior to last year, Nurse at least got some looks on the PP. Now all of his scoring is at even strength.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If I had to guess, it would be that it seems like Ekholm and Bouchard get all of the McDavid minutes. Plus, prior to last year, Nurse at least got some looks on the PP. Now all of his scoring is at even strength.

Correct, and correct.

 

[Coffey]

If I had to guess, it would be that it seems like Ekholm and Bouchard get all of the McDavid minutes. Plus, prior to last year, Nurse at least got some looks on the PP. Now all of his scoring is at even strength.

Good call, thanks!