A (perhaps) unpopular opinion... (pageau-Lazar)

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Wouldn't be against starting him in Bingo ala Zibanejad in 2013. Let him play big minutes and get his production rolling and then call him up and see if he can keep the spark going.

And no to Da Costa. The guy's putting up big numbers in the KHL, I really doubt he has much interest in coming back to Ottawa to fight for a spot in the bottom 6 again.

 

[aragorn]

A lot of good points. I think it depends on this organization & Cameron as to what he wants on that 3rd line. Does he want an energy line with good defensive play or does he want a more offensive line? If he wants an energy line than I agree that keeping Lazar on the wing & Pageau at centre does hurt Lazar's development at centre which I think is a more natural & better position for him to develop. I'm not sure he is better than Chiasson or Robinson as a RWer although he has done a decent job there. I think he is much better suited to play centre.

If Cameron wants a more offensive 3rd line than I think they should bring back SDC who is a much more offensive player than either Lazar or Pageau & they have the offensive wingers to put with him. I doubt we ever see SDC back in Ottawa though but I'm also not sure Pageau should be the 3rd line centre going forward. I think he will be for next season as they slowly try & clean out some vet contracts & see what they have in Bingo. IMO & have said for a while Lazar should play centre in Bingo next yr to regain his scoring touch & if he can develop some scoring to his game I would think that he could replace Pageau in a yr. Then again maybe that top 6 forward that we keep hearing BM wants could be a centre like ROR or maybe Draisaitl in a trade, who knows?

The other option could be Nick Paul as he develops in Bingo next season as to whether he will develop as a LWer or as a centre is unclear. If he develops as a centre, does he have enough offence to be a 3rd or 4th line centre or higher in the NHL? Will D. Grant ever challenge for a centre job in Ottawa or has his window of opportunity closed? Personally, I would like to see Lazar as our 3rd line centre in two yrs & Grant or Paul as the 4th line centre. I would like to see Pageau traded in a package to make room for more skilled offensive centres. Pageau has done well but overall IMO Ottawa needs more size, toughness, skill, speed in the bottom six if they want to compete in the playoffs with the bigger teams.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Pageau skill set fits center. Lazar's fits wing. Im more convinced to get the most out of Lazar he needs a playmaker well he does the work and goes to the dirty areas

Everything about Lazar to me screams winger

 

[Back in Black]

If everyone is healthy in camp and Prince/Puempel show once again they can play, I'd like to see Lazar go to the A for a while.

I said all year the Curt should be in the A, and I still stand by that.

I'd like to see him go down to the A and play more minutes. Our long term interest is for him to become at top six forward. Having him at a bottom six player doesn't help us, or him, in the long run.

Agreed with these statements. It's like when they rushed Lehner up here when we already had a great combo in Bishop & Anderson.

If it's all about rebuilding, what's the rush with the young guns!

 

[GWNR]

get a top line LW

Hoffman-Pageau-Lazar as the third line. Problems solved.

If milo could actually step up and play like he did before the injury during the run that would be perfect.

Mac-Turris-Stone
Milo-Zibby-Ryan
Hoff-Pageau-Lazar

Boom, top 9 with a solid balance of size, speed, energy, scoring touches on all 3.

The problem is CAN milo develop into something consistent with Zib and Ryan

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Oh, I know that. I just meant in general for his development, the A would have been ideal.

I get why they don't allow 19 year olds to play in the A, but there should be exceptions.

Maybe, but that would defeat the purpose of the rule in the first place. We know it forces NHL teams to decide "do I really want this kid playing on our roster all year?". More often than not, the kid will end up on the Junior team. Lazar was *just* good enough to hold his spot this year. If he was *just* not good enough, or Ottawa was a better team, the Oil Kings would have rejoiced. CHL $$$$$.

I do agree that it hurts potential development, though.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Oh, I know that. I just meant in general for his development, the A would have been ideal.

I get why they don't allow 19 year olds to play in the A, but there should be exceptions.

I would say, they should allow one 19 year old per AHL team. That way, teams and European kids coming over have a small window of playing in the AHL.

CHL would never agree to it, though.

 

[Micklebot]

I would say, they should allow one 19 year old per AHL team. That way, teams and European kids coming over have a small window of playing in the AHL.

CHL would never agree to it, though.

Just out of curiosity, what bargaining power does the CHL have? I mean, how do they actually stop this from being imposed?

I like that we keep some star power down in the CHL, it bolsters the league and makes it a better place for other players to develop too, but if the NHL decides it no longer wants to limit these 19 yr old kids from playing in the AHL, what power does the CHL actually have to stop it? Honest question, cause I really don't know.

 

[Stylizer1]

Puempel - Lazar - Condra
Smith - Pageau - Chiasson

Altough personally, I love Pageau on the 3rd line and I see him creating more offensively at this point. IMO because of that, Lazar or Pageau could be expandable if ever we decide to package for a top line forward or top 4 D.

Smith sucks on the wing. If he is not a center you might as well trade him which would be a mistake in my opinion.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Smith sucks on the wing. If he is not a center you might as well trade him which would be a mistake in my opinion.

To a degree, you're right. He's also still better on the faceoffs than pretty much everyone on the team other than probably Turris (although Pageau is coming along and probably has more potential as an elite faceoff guy long-term). But for those defensive zone face-offs, I still think sending Smith out there a good portion of the time, especially with his strength on the puck and tying up a center on the faceoff "ties" is important. MacLean sung Smith's praise often for having basically taken an inordinate large # of the defensive zone starts against elite competition. Never makes your stats look great, as analytics have shown, which is one of the reasons his stats have dropped a bit in the last two seasons.

There is absolutely zero issue of having 5 centers in your top 12, with Pageau, Smith and Lazar all taking draws and moving around a bit in the bottom six. Most teams have at least 5 centers in their top 12 at any given time, if not more.

 

[operasen]

Pageau skill set fits center. Lazar's fits wing. Im more convinced to get the most out of Lazar he needs a playmaker well he does the work and goes to the dirty areas

Everything about Lazar to me screams winger

I thought he laid back and helped establish both Hoffman and Stone at the beginning of the year. Pageau took his spot while he was away and the lines were juggled, and played his way into being a keeper. When Lazar came back, Hoffman and Stone were already "promoted", so Lazar fit in with Pageau and Condra.

I really think he should be the 4th line centre. In a world without the roster smothering contracts he would be.

Murray has to, and soon, get out from under the Greening, Legwand, Smith, Neil, Phillips contracts as a minimum - whatever it takes. I read some thinging a trade for say one of the above and a draft pick for a lower draft pick. Good idea, find a partner and just do it.

My bottom 6 at the moment would revolve around
Prince - Pageau - Michalek
Puempel - Lazar - Condra
Chiasson

 

[BonkTastic]

Smith sucks on the wing. If he is not a center you might as well trade him which would be a mistake in my opinion.

Just trade him, and have Grant be the 5th C with almost identical production (Grant might even do better) for 1/3 of the price.

Paying a guy $1.8mil for the role he's playing on our team is a bit much, assuming you can get an asset for him in a trade.

 

[Micklebot]

Just trade him, and have Grant be the 5th C with almost identical production (Grant might even do better) for 1/3 of the price.

Paying a guy $1.8mil for the role he's playing on our team is a bit much, assuming you can get an asset for him in a trade.

I'm far from a Smith fan, and I'd be fine with Grant as out 5th center, but I think Smith is getting a bad rap.

He had a terrible season, no question. But he was good for about 25 pts a year the previous 3 seasons (pro-rated). More importantly, he did this playing with Greening, Neil, Condra, and Daugavins as his top 4 linemates.

Imo, Condra and Smith are among the last of our extranious pieces to get rid off, right behind Legwand, Phillips, Neil, and Greening. They are around the same priority to move as Chiasson and Michalek (ie could live with or without them).

 

[BonkTastic]

But he was good for about 25 pts a year the previous 3 seasons (pro-rated).

He had 22 points last year in a full 82 games played, averaging almost 16 minutes a night... SIXTEEN!

He had 15 in 48 games the year before that, averaging over 15 minutes a game.

The year before that was his "breakout" year of 26pts in 81 games, when he had that great Oct-Dec, before going ice cold for the rest of the season.



Sure, the guy is good for about 25 points a year... when he's getting a crud ton of ice time. Give him 4th line minutes, and he'll be no better than the AHLer we call up to replace him.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Right now, Pageau is a better player than Lazar. If having him on the team hurts Lazar's development, Lazar can develop in the AHL. Problem solved.

Lazar right now imo is not as good a winger as Puempel, Prince Stone, Ryan Hoffman, MacArthur, or even Michalek, so he's stuck in a bottom 6 role at best. He'd be 1st line center getting 20+ mins a night in Bingo playing all situations. That's not neccisarilly better for his development, but I don't think it will hurt it.

The more I think about it, the more I see him starting in the AHL this coming season.

MacA-Turris-Stone
Hoff-Zib-Ryan
Prince-Pageau-Michalek
Condra-Smith-Chiasson/Neil

Legwand traded. If Condra walks, Michalek slots in on the LW and Chiasson moves up with Pageau and Prince. Maybe Lazar sticks and rotates in and out with Chiasson, but I don't see him sticking around fro 4th line duties.

I agree with most of this. If Lazar does not show more confidence in puck possession and play making early he needs to get his game together in Bingo.

 

[Othello*]

I didn't think Lazar was ready for the NHL and still stand by that. Going into next year send him to the AHL to improve offensively.

Paul Lazar Lindberg or
Lindberg Paul Lazar

The third line with Pageau/Condra and Lazar was great but the couldn't finish. Take out Condra and Lazar and insert Puemple/Prince

 

[Karl Cowensson]

Lots of centers start their NHL career on the wing. In time Lazar will be there, just give it a couple of seasons.

 

[dumbdick]

Give me pageau. Now and long term.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

He had 22 points last year in a full 82 games played, averaging almost 16 minutes a night... SIXTEEN!

He had 15 in 48 games the year before that, averaging over 15 minutes a game.

The year before that was his "breakout" year of 26pts in 81 games, when he had that great Oct-Dec, before going ice cold for the rest of the season.



Sure, the guy is good for about 25 points a year... when he's getting a crud ton of ice time. Give him 4th line minutes, and he'll be no better than the AHLer we call up to replace him.

Wow thats kinda crazy. Isnt 16 min basically top 6 ice time?

I dont understand why some people dont want Lazar in bingo. Hes contribution next year will likely be minimal. At least offensively i would bet on Prince or Puempel ahead of him

 

[SAK11]

He had 22 points last year in a full 82 games played, averaging almost 16 minutes a night... SIXTEEN!

He had 15 in 48 games the year before that, averaging over 15 minutes a game.

The year before that was his "breakout" year of 26pts in 81 games, when he had that great Oct-Dec, before going ice cold for the rest of the season.



Sure, the guy is good for about 25 points a year... when he's getting a crud ton of ice time. Give him 4th line minutes, and he'll be no better than the AHLer we call up to replace him.

He played too much but it was 15:32 per game on a team that lacked depth at centre. They used Zibanejad more on the wing and Pageau played in only 28 games. He was essentially the 3rd line centre that season, playing a lot of PK time and a lot against the other teams top forwards in defensive situations; his points per time on ice isn't as bad when you consider this. When young guys like Pageau, Da Costa or even Zib played centre, they played sheltered or lesser minutes to protect them, meaning Smith still played a lot. As a whole, that season was a good one for him. He played every game, was good on faceoffs, and chipped in offensively. MacLean overusing him had people hating on him but that wasn't his fault. Plus, he had bad linemates when it comes to creating offense so 13 goals was a solid number.

Having said that, Smith is inconsistent and did not play well last year. He also did not adjust well to the wing. Pageau essentially took his role last season and was better. I'm not sure where he fits anymore.

 

[SpezDispenser]

If anything lazar is dragging Pageau down. Find some offense next year kid!

 

[BigBush*]

Wow thats kinda crazy. Isnt 16 min basically top 6 ice time?

I dont understand why some people dont want Lazar in bingo. Hes contribution next year will likely be minimal. At least offensively i would bet on Prince or Puempel ahead of him

He's one of the teams best forchecker and hitter. That Pageau line was great and Lazar played a big part of it.

Lazar is also good defensively.

Why will his contribution next year be minimal? You have to think he'll improve

 

[Micklebot]

He had 22 points last year in a full 82 games played, averaging almost 16 minutes a night... SIXTEEN!

He had 15 in 48 games the year before that, averaging over 15 minutes a game.

I guess you missed the part where I said he had a brutal year? And 15 in 48 is on pace for what, 25pts? Isn't that what I said he was good for?

The year before that was his "breakout" year of 26pts in 81 games, when he had that great Oct-Dec, before going ice cold for the rest of the season.

His breakout year, also known as his first full season.

Sure, the guy is good for about 25 points a year... when he's getting a crud ton of ice time. Give him 4th line minutes, and he'll be no better than the AHLer we call up to replace him.

He gets no PP time and is primarily deployed in a defensive role, all while being saddled with the teams worst offensive players, Greening, Neil, Condra, Legwand, Daugavins, ect.

Look, I'm ok with replacing him with a guy like Grant, but don't expect it to be an upgrade (well, it might be for this past year's performance). It's a big win if Grant can come in a play Smith's role as well as he did the last 3 years (not this past season).

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Just out of curiosity, what bargaining power does the CHL have? I mean, how do they actually stop this from being imposed?

I like that we keep some star power down in the CHL, it bolsters the league and makes it a better place for other players to develop too, but if the NHL decides it no longer wants to limit these 19 yr old kids from playing in the AHL, what power does the CHL actually have to stop it? Honest question, cause I really don't know.

Make it so players have to play till 19 to play in their league?


This could back fire and cause the creation on a new league though. Might not be legal either but i could see ways to get around it

 

[Micklebot]

Make it so players have to play till 19 to play in their league?


This could back fire and cause the creation on a new league though. Might not be legal either but i could see ways to get around it

The kids in those leagues are too young to even sign a contract when they enter the league. CHL can not force kids to play till they are 19. The rule comes from the NHL-CHL transfer agreement. I'm not sure what negotiating power the CHL really has; what is it giving up to make the NHL willing to agree to this? Is it just so that NHL teams can get a CHL player mid season or even sign an NHL ELC without the kid losing his CHL eligibility?