A Penguins Rebuild Idea.

[Gurglesons]

I don’t think anyone is in a hurry to lose. Just that it seems like these guys aren’t really able to pull it together in the playoffs like they did when they were younger.

If this is what this is going to be from here on out - I’d much rather trade some players now, and accelerate a rebuild.

It doesn’t matter though, I think Mario is going to green light being “all in” until Crosby no longer plays hockey.

Time has really flown, can’t believe we are having this convo. Watching them make the playoffs again against Sens feels like yesterday.

2007, 2011, 2012, 2015 all first round exits while Crosby and Malkin were winning Art Ross and Hart Trophies. Nothing new here. Hard league to win in.

 

[DrDangles]

I think the vast majority of Pens fans would rather see the core retire with the team instead of jump-starting a rebuild.

I'm willing to suffer a harsher rebuild to try to remain competitive during the remaining years of our most successful era. As long as Sid and Geno have the desire to win, management should be doing everything they can to build a contender around them.

 

[tread102]

I'll just never understand why people are in a hurry to lose.

They lost this year. Keep the core and a first rd exit is going to be the standard

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think the vast majority of Pens fans would rather see the core retire with the team instead of jump-starting a rebuild.

I'm willing to suffer a harsher rebuild to try to remain competitive during the remaining years of our most successful era. As long as Sid and Geno have the desire to win, management should be doing everything they can to build a contender around them.

It's really not as ignoble of a fate as people are pretending.

Be conservative with horse swapping and first round picks the next 2-3 to help build up some secondary assets. Then once these guys are done for and retire, the Penguins start the actual rebuild in earnest. Suck out loud and get those top five picks for a few years.

Repeat cycle.

Kind of a win win, really. Why are people in such a huge hurry to be horrible AND tarnish the team's legacy at the same time? It's kinda dumb.

 

[tread102]

Remove emotion from it, and the right call is to trade anyone over 30 and start rebuilding. That being said I have no doubt a year or two after Sid retires we get another generational talent. It just how it works here in pgh. Kid is about 8 years old right now just lighting it up in pee wee

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm fine with the big three playing out their contracts here. I don't really want to re-sign Geno and Letang when they're up for new deals, because they're gonna want a bunch of money and probably 3 or 4 years of term, and that'll probably keep us hovering around the playoffs without any chance to do damage. But, I mean, I get it. Jersey sales, ticket sales, nostalgia, legacy, all that. The organization will hand them whatever they ask, and I don't even know if it'll be technically wrong to sign 'em, but I do think it's gonna suck watching these guys plod around the ice at 38, making like $24 million between the three of 'em.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It can't suck any worse than watching Mario kinda hobble around his last couple of seasons playing here and there as he was able. Not even making the playoffs any year aside from his first comeback season.

 

[Gurglesons]

It can't suck any worse than watching Mario kinda hobble around his last couple of seasons playing here and there as he was able. Not even making the playoffs any year aside from his first comeback season.

Yeah. Those seasons ruled tbh. No expectations and getting excited about absolute trash.

Pretty obvious who got here in 07 / 08 and who has been here prior when it comes to the "boo hoo I'm going to have to watch great players in their twilight play for my team and solidify their legacy".

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah. Those seasons ruled tbh.

Pretty obvious who got here in 07 / 08 and who has been here prior when it comes to the "boo hoo I'm going to have to watch great players in their twilight play for my team and solidify their legacy".

I mean... *I* certainly had fun. Gallows humor and investing time into following prospects was good times. There was a certain level of terrible anxiety over the team moving of course. But considering how bad the team was at the time there was still a lot of entertainment to be had.

Plus I mean... even if his last two seasons were a wash watching Mario score 90some points in like 60 games as an old half-brokedown man was pretty righteous.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean... *I* certainly had fun. Gallows humor and investing time into following prospects was kind fun. There was a certain level of terrible anxiety over the team moving of course. But considering how bad the team was at the time there was still a lot of entertainment to be had.

Plus I mean... even if his last two seasons were a wash watching Mario score 90some points in like 60 games as an old half-brokedown man was pretty righteous.

Lemieux face-off goal happened in 2002. Lemieux against the Sharks happened in 02-03. Lots of great Lemieux moments happened post 01.

I think it'll be fun to see Sid turning into an actual 3rd line grinder if a coach treats him like one.

Malkin at wing. Letang sheltered.

I dunno, it really depends on how the team builds moving forward.

 

[SomeDude]

I'm suddenly having flashbacks of Mario finessing 30 foot lob passes right on the tape of Toby Peterson just for him to trip over the blue line. I feel like Mario's soul died a little after every shift during those years.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm suddenly having flashbacks of Mario finessing 30 foot lob passes right on the tape of Toby Peterson just for him to trip over the blue line. I feel like Mario's soul died a little after every shift during those years.

But it made the 05-06 / 08-09 payoff so great.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Not doing it without Kris Beech.

To be fair, he was billed as the 2nd coming of Ron Francis.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm suddenly having flashbacks of Mario finessing 30 foot lob passes right on the tape of Toby Peterson just for him to trip over the blue line. I feel like Mario's soul died a little after every shift during those years.

THE "Toby Petersen Hat Trick" is still something I reference to this day.

Simultaneously the most amazing and most pathetic HT of all time.

 

[The Sodfather]

Burke said he expects all will be here next season. When asked about whether he could see negotiating extensions with them, he said sure. I didn't see it as a ringing endorsement and wouldn't be surprised to see them put off negotiations until next year.

He said as much on Cook & Joe this morning. He was more convincing on Madden that they could end their careers here based on their collective play this season.

 

[Andy99]

He said as much on Cook & Joe this morning. He was more convincing on Madden that they could end their careers here based on their collective play this season.

yeah, here’s something on it...

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Pens just won the division and are likely to make the playoffs next season. Crosby and Letang had their best season in years.
Why on earth would they rebuild now?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean obviously I'd rather they say that they are all for sure Penguins for life. But there wasn't really anything approaching alarming in that article.

 

[mpp9]

Pens just won the division and are likely to make the playoffs next season. Crosby and Letang had their best season in years.
Why on earth would they rebuild now?

Eh? Letang, yes. Sid? I’d say this season adds further proof he needs more help on his line. His 18-19 season was better.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Eh? Letang, yes. Sid? I’d say this season adds further proof he needs more help on his line. His 18-19 season was better.

Crosby is capable of bouncing back, I think.

But he can't buy into the Toews-ization of his post-hernia game by the team, media, and fanbase. Look in the mirror and ask "if Jeff Carter and Matt Cullen can still have explosiveness through the neutral zone in their late 30s, why can't I?" He needs to get lighter and faster on his skates. Too much gliding into the opponent's zone and immediately looking for the trailer anymore. Be dynamic, dude.

Also the whole mix and chemistry and usage of L1 was broken. Sully treated them as some sort of version of the Bahston Perfection line and they played like they were too good to try, score dirty goals, or give half a sh1t defensively. Jarry's epic meltdown basically spared L1 the anger they were due.

Letang was our best player and not by a small margin.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't really have any issue with Sid's regular season. He and his line beat up on bad teams and produced at a clip that kept a team dealing with Geno and Kap injuries afloat. I do think he went a little too far when it came to leaning into the defensive style in the playoffs. He was fine, if not good in that regard, but you gotta have your 1C that makes as much money as Sid does contribute more offensively.

Agree that Letang was the team's MVP though. Sid had a fine season, but Letang should be right up there for the Norris (though I'd expect Fox and Makar to beat him out).

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't really have any issue with Sid's regular season. He and his line beat up on bad teams and produced at a clip that kept a team dealing with Geno and Kap injuries afloat. I do think he went a little too far when it came to leaning into the defensive style in the playoffs. He was fine, if not good in that regard, but you gotta have your 1C that makes as much money as Sid does contribute more offensively.

Agree that Letang was the team's MVP though. Sid had a fine season, but Letang should be right up there for the Norris (though I'd expect Fox and Makar to beat him out).

It's hard to have an issue with anyone's regular season, really. Given how well we did with all the injuries as per the usual. The unspoken assumption with Sid & Jake was that they had another gear and instead they got clowned and shut down by a good-but-not-great defensive pairing.

Just look at Sid's 5-on-5 production versus his career norms and you could see the warning signs that he was propped up by 3-on-3 OT and Empty Net situations. That matched the eye test that his skating explosiveness in the neutral zone (note: not doing his skilled grinder deal in the corners) had completely evaporated.

It's a little bit weird that Sid gets the Pen4Lyfe Hall Pass while we have the usual existential debates on Geno & Letang, when the latter two were far more effective in the playoffs. But again, that's us turning Sid into our Toews.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's hard to have an issue with anyone's regular season, really. Given how well we did with all the injuries as per the usual. The unspoken assumption with Sid & Jake was that they had another gear and instead they got clowned and shut down by a good-but-not-great defensive pairing.

Just look at Sid's 5-on-5 production versus his career norms and you could see the warning signs that he was propped up by 3-on-3 OT and Empty Net situations. That matched the eye test that his skating explosiveness in the neutral zone (note: not doing his skilled grinder deal in the corners) had completely evaporated.

It's a little bit weird that Sid gets the Pen4Lyfe Hall Pass while we have the usual existential debates on Geno & Letang, when the latter two were far more effective in the playoffs. But again, that's us turning Sid into our Toews.

I think it's just more the fact that this is as much Sid's franchise as Mario's now, for all intents and purposes. Even if Sid had the worst playoffs of the three--and I think Sid's playoffs sucked shit as much as Jake's, or Rust's, or McCann's, or any other forward--he's never, ever gonna be shopped or leave unless he steps up and specifically wants to go. I think Geno's probably also in that same realm of never leaving unless he wants to. Letang's NTC is more lenient, and I don't think he's in the same realm as the other two guys in the eyes of the organization, but you can't trade Letang and still hope to compete with how this blueline is constructed.

You'd probably suffer more by removing Letang than either of the other two, if we're being honest. If you're the GM, you probably don't really want to remove any of them because you're never gonna get value that helps in the immediate and it'd alienate the fanbase, but I do think Letang plays the most important role and has a bigger hand in the team's current chances of success than just about anyone outside of goalies--and that's just because of the nature of their position, not because they're of Letang's caliber.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think it's just more the fact that this is as much Sid's franchise as Mario's now, for all intents and purposes. Even if Sid had the worst playoffs of the three--and I think Sid's playoffs sucked shit as much as Jake's, or Rust's, or McCann's, or any other forward--he's never, ever gonna be shopped or leave unless he steps up and specifically wants to go. I think Geno's probably also in that same realm of never leaving unless he wants to. Letang's NTC is more lenient, and I don't think he's in the same realm as the other two guys in the eyes of the organization, but you can't trade Letang and still hope to compete with how this blueline is constructed.

You'd probably suffer more by removing Letang than either of the other two, if we're being honest. If you're the GM, you probably don't really want to remove any of them because you're never gonna get value that helps in the immediate and it'd alienate the fanbase, but I do think Letang plays the most important role and has a bigger hand in the team's current chances of success than just about anyone outside of goalies--and that's just because of the nature of their position, not because they're of Letang's caliber.

I completely agree. I think high-end defensemen are undervalued by nature compared to high-end forwards...I mean they play like 20-25% more minutes for crying out loud.

The team still gives reasons to hope (and fans to spend money) in the regular season and for that reason they will keep the core 3. Once we miss a playoffs and fan indifference sets in, we'll see how deep Mario/Burkle's loyalty really lies.

BTW: I'm with you on asking Geno to take a paycut - $6-$7.1M/year. Too injury prone to keep paying $9.5M in a flat cap.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I completely agree. I think high-end defensemen are undervalued by nature compared to high-end forwards...I mean they play like 20-25% more minutes for crying out loud.

The team still gives reasons to hope (and fans to spend money) in the regular season and for that reason they will keep the core 3. Once we miss a playoffs and fan indifference sets in, we'll see how deep Mario/Burkle's loyalty really lies.

BTW: I'm with you on asking Geno to take a paycut - $6-$7.1M/year. Too injury prone to keep paying $9.5M in a flat cap.

Oh I wouldn't say high end blueliners are undervalued at all in comparison to high end forwards. They're probably as valuable or more so than centers, and way above wingers, I'd guess.

I have to wonder just how involved Mario is anymore. I don't think Burkle was ever really involved, but haven't there been reports of Mario considering selling off the majority of his stake in the team in recent years? Dude's got his Cups as a player and owner, and he's loaded. Can't imagine he's really too interested in being around for another rebuild with no Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin on the horizon.