A history of racist incidents (and false alarms) in hockey...

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by BobbySmithFan, Sep 23, 2011.

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  1. BobbySmithFan

    BobbySmithFan Registered User

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    One thing I have learned is that racism, as disgusting as it is, happens in many sports, and hockey is not immune.
    You will find that these incidents happen in Canada, the USA, and Europe, in Red states and Blue states, in French and English Canada, and pretty much everywhere. They do not just happen in one place or with one group of fans...



    HERE IS SOME HISTORY:

    In the Quebec league in 1946, three excellent players - Herb Carnegie, his brother Ozzie and Manny McIntyre - were among the best players and Herb Carnegie was named most valuable player three years in a row. Carnegie knew his skin colour would keep him out of the NHL: "See that man sitting up in the (stands)?" his coach, Ed Wildey asked him. "That's Conn Smythe, owner of the Maple Leafs. He says he'd take you tomorrow if he could turn (you) white."
    Jean Beliveau even wrote: "It is my belief that Herbie Carnegie was excluded from the National Hockey League because of his colour. How could the NHL scouts overlook not one, but three Most Valuable Player Awards for a player on a team in a top senior league?"
    In one of pro sports' most infamous assessments, Smythe saw the high-schooler Carnegie play in a junior tournament at Maple Leaf Gardens and remarked: "I'll give $10,000 to the man who can turn Herb Carnegie white." (And the NHL names its MVP playoff trophy after that guy!).





    In 1954, Willie O’Ree was the first black player to make the NHL. O'Ree says that while his fellow Bruins and Toronto and Montreal players left him alone, it was in Detroit, New York, and Chicago where he saw the deepest hostility from people who thought this black pioneer was polluting the purity of the white ice.
    "The worst thing happened in Chicago -- a player gave me an intentional butt end, knocked my two front teeth out, broke my nose, and made a racial remark. It wasn't the racial remark that made me angry, but the butt end. I fought back, both the benches cleared, and there was an all-out brawl." The sight of a black man retaliating against the brutality of a white man was an incendiary sight in the United States in 1961. "I was escorted to the Bruins' dressing room and remained there for the entire game," says O'Ree, with the chill of fear still in his voice, "because they thought there was going to be an attempt on my life."
    Thirty years later, O'Ree returned as a trail-blazing hero to the NHL's All-Star Game in Chicago. When he walked into the reception party, the first man he saw was his racist Black Hawk tormentor. "He said, `Hi Willie, how are you doing?"'O'Ree recalls. "I said, `Fine, how are you?' and we turned and walked away. "Whatever happened on the ice I left on the ice," says O'Ree, "but when I saw this guy there was a flashback. I said to myself, `You're here now and you've survived the game,' but another part of me wanted to rip his throat out."





    A 1987 report on Discrimination and Performance Differentials in the National Hockey League indicated that, despite all the outraged cries of innocence from everyone with an interest in the NHL, professional hockey had its share of racists, unconscious or otherwise. The study, carried out by Marc Lavoie, Gilles Grenier and Serge Coulombe of the University of Ottawa, concluded there was "substantial evidence of hiring discrimination against francophone hockey players attempting to enter the NHL."






    Tony McKegney, who is black, played for seven teams in 13 NHL seasons said he faced racism in NHL Arenas, especially in his rookie year (1978-79) and even got into a shouting match with a fan in Pittsburgh. He said that it wasn’t just black players who faced racism: "The Russians and Czechoslovakians were Commies, the Italians were dagos."
    McKegney went lower than expected in the 1978 NHL draft because he had announced his intention to play for the WHA's Birmingham, Alabama, team, The Birmingham Bulls. His plans abruptly changed when Birmingham owner John Bassett decided not to offer McKegney a contract. At the time, Bassett said McKegney's financial demands were too high. In Alabama, a number of season-ticket holders called the team and said they would cancel tickets if a black player was on the team. McKegney was told 'Listen, season-ticket holders, that's our bread and butter. We can't afford to alienate them, we've got to let you go."




    In 1990, Alpo Suhonen, a former coach of the Finnish national hockey team and co-architect of the Winnipeg Jets' remarkable turnaround that season was the brunt of an attack by Hockey Night in Canada commentator Don Cherry, who likened his Finnish name to a brand of dog food and said Suhonen was taking work away from Canadian coachs. The Jets called Cherry's comments racist and threatened to sue. Cherry threatened a countersuit and the issue eventually died. Cherry also said Calgary defenceman Frank Musil, who was Czech, had a named that sounded like “a laxative.”




    In 1990, Bruins' Graeme Townshend who was black and a native of Jamaica, said New York's Kris King yelled a racial slur at him. Townshend dropped his gloves, charged after King and wrestled him to the ice. King denied the accusation. The most bizarre part of the story was the reaction of King’s Coach, Rick Ley. Ley said: "My opinion of it is that a lot was made of nothing. An awful lot of things are said in the heat of battle in an attempt to throw a guy off his game and make him blow his cool in retaliation. French guys have been called 'frog' so many times on the ice over the years you couldn't begin to count. And you don't think when Probert comes back, he's not going to hear about it? (Apparently Probert also used the slur that season against a French-Canadian player). Although that's different: He's made his bed. My point as a coach is that every player's got to be able to control himself no matter how mean or stupid the taunts are. He (Townshend) has heard it since he was a kid. It cost the Bruins the game. I think that's why they're making a big thing out of it." Townshend got a 6 game suspension out of the incident.



    In 1989, Townshend’s college coach at RPI, Mike Addesa, used a racial epithet while referring to Townshend during a locker-room talk. When a local newspaper reported the incident, Addesa was forced to resign. Addesa responded by saying the comment was "if you can understand it, not meant racially." Townshend said he supported his coach “100%.”



    Two years after his NHL suspension, Townshend was in the AHL. During a game against the Adirondack Red Wings, the Capital District Islanders forward became incensed over a racial slur made by Adirondack defenceman Gord Kruppke. The pair had words during the game and Townshend made a threatening gesture with his stick. Afterward, Townshend confronted Kruppke in the stands and demanded an apology. When it didn't come, Townshend said, "I'll rip your heart out," according to Adirondack's Lonnie Loach. Kruppke said he meant nothing by the remark. "I regret saying it," he said.





    In 1991, Benoit Hogue of the Buffalo Sabres said he was the target of racist comments by certain teammates because he is a French Canadian.




    In 1991, Grant Fuhr played four games for Cape Breton after his NHL suspension for drug abuse. He made a trip into New Haven, where they aparently had some of the AHL's crudest fans, and not only put up with racist taunts but someone actually leaned into the Cape bench with a baggie filled with some white stuff - obviously a shot at his drug problem.




    Sportsnet broadcaster Nick Kypreos apologized for remark he made. The former NHL player commented on the often-ridiculed suggestion by Tampa Bay Lightning owner Art Williams that top draft pick Vincent Lecavalier would be hockey's answer to Michael Jordan. Kypreos' comment focused on the fact that Lecavalier is white and Jordan is black. Sportsnet vice-president Scott Moore said Kypreos' comments were "a mild transgression, and unintentional. One of the things Nick has going for him is he's very opinionated, he's a breath of fresh air. He didn't make a racial slur, he made a comment that was perhaps unwise. Nick hasn't developed what I call the broadcaster's net, the ability to catch something between the brain and the mouth. That's one of the things that makes him attractive, but it comes with a risk."




    In 1996, in the OHL, London Knights coach Brad Selwood verbally attacked reporter Bill Montague in the dressing room for apparently not giving the whole story about an on-ice incident. He was fined $2,500 for the attack. Later that night, he was interviewed by another reporter Jim Cressman, who alleged that he referred to Montague as "a little black *******" or "a little black son of a *****." Selwood stated forcefully that he had referred to Montague in front of Cressman only as "your black friend." The Knights also produced a witness, an assistant trainer, who backed up Selwood's version of his conversation with Cressman. As a result, the league found Selwood guilty of unprofessional conduct for his vulgar tirade, but innocent of a racial slur.




    In 1997, the NHL investigated allegations that Tampa Bay Lightning players used racial slurs against Peter Worrell of the Florida Panthers.




    Also in 1997, Craig Berube of the Washington Capitals was suspended for a game for calling Peter Worrell of Florida a "monkey."


    When Worrell played in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, a fan yelled, "Go back to Africa" from a bullhorn and other fans hurled bananas in his direction as he skated toward the penalty box. A sign in Beauport said: Worrell, you're 6-foot-6 of pure s--. Go back to hell. When Worrell played in Laval, every time they played a dance song the whole section behind the Laval bench said, `Let's see you dance, let's see your moves.'




    A racist fan greeted Kevin Weekes in a junior hockey game in Kitchener, Ont., with the words, "N----r, you should be playing basketball. The NCAA tournament is going on. You're taking away a job from one of our Canadian boys!"

    The Ottawa 67's, Kevin Weekes's junior, had three black players. One player on an opposing team said, `Hey, ref, how are we going to start the game today? Are we going to do a jump ball?'




    In 1999, Former NHL player Bernie Federko, accused of making a racist comment to a black player after a roller hockey game, was exonerated by Roller Hockey International president Dennis Murphy. Following a game in New Haven, Conn., between the Connecticut Coasters and the St. Louis Vipers, coached by Federko, Connecticut assistant coach Rob Hyrtsak and Coasters player Berkley Hoagland accused Federko of saying to Hoagland, the only black player on either team, "Why don't you go play basketball?" Hoagland later conceded his back had been turned when he heard the comment.





    In 1999, San Jose Sharks defenceman Bryan Marchment admitted that in a game he called Vancouver Canucks winger Donald Brashear a "big monkey," but contended there were no racial connotations. "I didn't apologize [to Brashear] for what I said, but I apologized for the terms that people might have taken it as," Marchment told the San Jose Mercury News. "By no means is this racial the way the league is making it out to be."
    "While we accept that there was no inappropriate intent on Mr. Marchment's part, we cannot excuse the conduct," said NHL vice- president Colin Campbell.
    Marchment delivered the offending remark as he made his way back to his bench after a scrum with some opponents, preceded by a hit he made on Canucks defenceman Mattias Ohlund, who was left with a concussion. After the game, Vancouver's coaching staff mentioned the incident to Sharks coach Darryl Sutter, who suggested Marchment offer an apology. Marchment went to the arena during the Canucks' practice the next day to meet Brashear.



    During the 1999 playoffs, Flyer Sandy McCarthy said a racial slur was directed at him by Leaf Tie Domi. Domi denied the accusation and said that McCarthy spit on him. (McCarthy's father is black and his mother is a native). Both players denied the other guy’s accusation and the league briefly investigated, and nothing came of it.



    In 2000, Chris Simon of the Washington Capitals was suspended after uttering racial insults to Edmonton Oilers player Mike Grier. Both Linesmen heard it. Simon himself was an Ojibwa Indian. The most priceless, silly comment came from Canuck Donald Brashear who said: "I've met Chris and I don't think he's racist. He's Indian."




    Also in 2000, Ottawa Senators centre Vaclav Prospal was disciplined by the NHL for calling Montreal Canadiens defenceman Patrice Brisebois a "f-----g frog."
    It marked the first time discipline was handed down for a slur against a francophone player. Prospal, who is from the Czech Republic, said he wasn't aware saying "frog"could be taken as hateful. His apology was made to French-Canadians in general. "I admit I said those things in the heat of the game," Prospal said. "I'm European, so I may not fully understand what effect the comments had. I apologize to all French-Canadians."
    Senators coach Jacques Martin, a French-Canadian, said Prospal was "remorseful" for his remark. But Prospal sounded a little suspicious of Brisebois after: "Why did it take him seven or five days to bring it up?" Prospal asked. "I've been called way worse than that before." The NHL made Prospal to travel to New York for a one-on-one session with a counsellor who provides players with "diversity training." The same counsellor had counseled Atlanta Braves pitcher John Rocker.
    Prospal's agent, Rich Winter called Brisbois "a gutless, spineless hockey player just hanging on to his career. He should have stood up like a real man and settled this on the ice or in the back lot."



    In 2002, in Montreal, Kevin Weekes had a banana tossed on the ice during a Habs/Hurricanes playoff series. (Throwing Bananas at black player and chanting “monkey” sounds at black players has been a popular racist thing to do at European soccer matches).




    There were some accusations that Jarome Iginla was left off the 2002 Hart Trophy ballot due to the color of his skin.




    In 2004, Don Cherry stated on Hockey Night in Canada: "...most of the guys that wear them [visors] are European or French guys and you can't have half the league wear them and half not as you can see..."




    In 2004, a “Worldstars” team of locked out NHL players went to Russia to face an all-star team. The team included Mats Sundin, Marty Brodeur and Luc Robitaille. They won both games, but what stole headlines was when Bananas were thrown on the ice at the game in St. Petersburg, Russia, in an act aimed at World Star player Anson Carter. The team arrived in St. Petersburg at a time in which ethnic minorities had been the victim of attacks.





    Also in 2004, before a Flames and Sharks game, a fan sitting behind the Sharks bench put up a a racist image against the glass, which was a picture of an orangutan with the name “IGINLA” on top. Previously discussed here: http://hfboards.com/archive/index.php/t-78731.html




    In 2005, Georges Laraque accused Sean Avery of calling him a “Monkey” on the ice. The alleged remark could not be proven.

    Earlier that year, Avery was warned by the league when he said Denis Gauthier's hit in pre-season on Kings teammate Jeremy Roenick was "typical of most French guys in our league with a visor on, running around and playing tough and not back anything up."




    Also in 2005, it was alleged that Shane Doan made a racist remark regarding a French Canadian linesman, even though Doan was adamant it wasn't him. The NHL investigated the incident, and determined that no, it wasn't Doan who said that remark.
    In 2006, Liberal Party MP Denis Coderre, an MP from the northeastern Montreal riding of Bourassa, wrote to Hockey Canada president Bob Nicholson, asking him to expel Doan from Canada's Olympic team unless he formally apologized for making an alleged ethnic slur against francophones. Doan sued Coderre for $250,000 in damages, and Coderre refused to apologize.
    In 2007, when Doan was made Captain of Canada’s World Championship team, stupid politicians whined again. Jack Layton of the NDP said that Doan's captaincy would "cast a shadow on (Canada's) participation on the international stage."
    Canada’s four political parties in a gutless move, unanimously supported a a Bloc Quebecois motion that forced Hockey Canada president Bob Nicholson, chairman Rene Marcil, and senior director Brad Pascall to appear before the House of Commons' Official Languages Committee. They were not forced to testify- but could have faced a subpoena had they rejected an initial request from the committee.
    A Conservative MP on the committee who once worked for the National Hockey League Players' Association — Michael Chong — defended the committee decision: "We're talking about Team Canada. We're talking about an organization that receives millions of dollars a year in government money — in public funds.They are accountable, in part, to the government of Canada."




    Scott Gomez and Raffi Torres both claim to have been the victim of racist taunts growing up. Gomez is Hispanic, and Torres is Mexican-Peruvian. Jarome Iginla, who is half-black, and Native Jonathan Cheechoo claim the same thing.

    Georges Laraque said he remembers the fear he felt skating past the opposing team's bench as players banged their sticks on the boards and chanted "get the n-----" when he was a kid playing in Quebec. He recalls those players' parents encouraging racist behaviour, yelling epithets from the stands. He also remembers his own parents staying home because they didn't feel safe even entering some arenas.




    In 2005, Fans of the QMJHL’s Chicoutimi Sagueneens, hurled racial slurs at a visiting native coach. Ted Nolan of the Moncton Wildcats, an Ojibwa from Garden Creek First Nation near Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario. Chicoutimi's hometown fans began yelling insults, imitating warrior cries and making racist gestures during the game and after beating the Wildcats. Nolan claimed that the security guards were laughing along with the people who were doing the gestures. Following the game, police escorted the coach and his young charges to their team bus waiting outside the arena. The league commissioner, Gilles Courteau, issued a press release denouncing the actions of Chicoutimi's fans.
    In a 2010 interview, Nolan said his lack of NHL job opportunities is the result of racism -- especially after he parted ways with the Buffalo Sabres in 1997. "Whenever this comes up, it's always they said this or that. You know, never has anyone stood by what is said. Things like I was sleeping with player's wives, getting drunk at practice, I mean, I think that is a directly racist comment," Nolan said in an interview with PuckLife Magazine. "If someone could just stand by it, fine, it would be my word against theirs, but we can't even do that."
    "I'm different. I didn't go to their hockey schools, I don't look like them," Nolan told PuckLife. "Racism, when I was younger, was in your face. And I almost preferred that. When you become an adult it is less pronounced but it's there, just not to your face. It's hard to deal with."




    Jason Bailey -- a 3rd round NHL pick in 2005 – claimed in a suit filed in Orange County Superior Court that from the moment the Anaheim Ducks assigned him to play for an affiliate team called the Bakersfield Condors ... his coaches unleashed a "barrage of anti-Semitic, offensive and degrading verbal attacks." Bailey claimed the head coach of the Condors told him "[Jews] only care about money and who's who" and that he "never wanted his son to be raised Jewish or to wear a Yarmulke." He said his assistant head coach would get in on the Jew-bashing too -- saying things like, "Oh, I just got a friend request from a dirty Jew." Bailey says the coaches also forced him to travel apart from the team and he was "rarely given any ice time" in games because he's Jewish. Bailey says he complained to the Ducks about the hostile work environment -- and the team reacted by instructing the coaches to pen apology letters to Bailey in which they both admitted to using hurtful language.





    This past April, while Brayden Schenn of the Saskatoon Blades' prepared for a playoff game with the Prince Albert Raiders, an impersonator was online, posting racist comments in his name under a fake facebook account that Schenn didn’t even know about. At first, Schenn was blamed for making the offensive comments on Facebook about Native people (especially by many older people who didn’t understand how easy it is to impersonate someone on the Internet).
    His team requested a police investigation, and banned players from having Facebook accounts. Schenn never made the comments but was clearly upset at the false accusation (understandably).




    And in my opinion…the worst incident ever…




    In 2003, John Vanbiesbrouck, former NHL goalie and head coach and general manager of the Ontario Hockey League's Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds resigned from the club after admitting he used a racial slur to describe team captain Trevor Daley, who is black.
    ``I used the `N' word instead of calling him Trevor,'' said Vanbiesbrouck, who also owns 25 per cent of the team. ``I used it just not thinking.''
    Vanbiesbrouck’s team had lost 6-1, and he was angry at Daley’s performance. He went to the billet residence of two players, and Vanbiesbrouck, who was livid over his team's performance, criticized Daley in front of them and admitted to using the slur ``several times.'' When asked how many times he used the slur, Vanbiesbrouck paused and said ``more than once.''
    Daley was informed of the racial slurs by teammates and called his agent, Bobby Orr, who was disgusted, and told him to leave and go home to Toronto.
    Vanbiesbrouck blamed the incident on the fact that he grew up in Detroit.





    And of course, last night, here in 2011, During a pre-season game against the Detroit Red Wings in London, Ontario, black Philadelphia Flyers winger Wayne Simmonds was the victim of an apparent racist attack when someone threw a banana at him during a shootout.



    Almost 70 years of ignorant stupidity :(
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
  2. JackFr

    JackFr Registered User

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    Just hearing about the Shane Doan BS makes me furious.
     
  3. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    wow, all of that and shane doan what makes you furious?

    /off my high horse





    it isn't a historical example per se, but i thought the line from this song -- "some of us weren't always fair to the native kid on borrowed skates" -- was an interesting take on the contradiction between how reggie leach would have been treated on the ponds as a kid, and how he is remembered as a hero after his big league glory. stuff like what happened last night in london may somewhat shocking nowadays, but even in this "enlightened" age, among most canadians i don't think any of us would be nearly as surprised about discrimination and racial epithets against first nations people.
     
  4. Peter9

    Peter9 Registered User

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    For the sake of accuracy on this history of hockey website: Willie O'Ree broke the color barrier in the NHL on January 18, 1958, not in 1954 as the original post has it. The NHL did not desegregate until four years after the U.S. Supreme Court rendered the school desegregation decision, Brown v. Board of Education, in 1954. The Little Rock school desegregation crisis occurred in 1957, when President Eisenhower ordered the National Guard in to enforce a decision desegregating the local high school.

    If my memory serves, at least the Hockey News acclaimed O'Ree's debut.
     
  5. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    Yes, some very bad ones there. I remember some of those very well also. Ted Nolan's one sticks out a lot. Look, Nolan is blacklisted from the NHL (or so it seems) and I don't think its because he's Native but because of his actions after he was let go from Buffalo. Regardless, you just can't constantly and publicly bash your ex-GM and then expect someone else to take a chance on you. But that incident where a "native type" song was played in between whistles while he coached in the QMJHL (2005 or so?) was just bad. If anyone knows the Atlanta Braves chant with the tomahawk chop then you know what song I mean. Except this was directed at Nolan from a wealth of fans behind his bench. It looked bad and it was in poor taste.

    Throwing a banana and such is just poor taste in general. Nothing good comes out of that. I remember hearing about Grant Fuhr's incident in the minors once. Fuhr was a laid back guy, but he claims believe it or not this was the only time someone ever eluded to his race in his hockey career and I think that's pretty good.

    Hmmmm.........the Iginla and the 2002 Hart Trophy have been brought up before. Personally I think Theodore deserved it anyway. Remember, Iginla didn't lead the Flames anywhere near the postseason that year. But not having him on the top 10 on one writer's ballot was questionable. If I remember correctly, was it not an Oilers writer? If that's the case you have to wonder if it was just pure resentment from one of the NHL's best all-time rivalries. Still doesn't make it right, but I have never been sold on that one being racism. Iginla is loved by almost everyone and in general has had very good Hart voting in his past.

    Yeah Doan's is just ridiculous. The Liberals and the NDP and the Bloc Quebecois all up here in Canada actually agreed on something for once and all wanted him off the Canadian team. What a joke. Stephen Harper was the only leader that actually went to bat for him, and why not. Here was the "offensive" remark:

    "We're in Montreal with two French referees, you figure it out."

    This was in reference to some bad calls going against the Coyotes in Montreal. Is this any different than saying: "We're in Toronto with two Ontarian refs?" Not to me it isn't. Too bad Doan's name was dragged through the mud on that one. From what I remember he even said it privately but it was overheard.

    I remember the Domi/McCarthy incident. Still can't figure out which one (both?) were lying.

    I think there are times though were it goes a little too far. When there is blatant attacks then that is an open and shut case, but I remember two incidents not long after Grier's incident:

    Chris Gratton known best for a $10 million dollar signing bonus was once in a skirmish with Peter Worrell. As Worrell is walking away the camera catches him saying something. There was tons of analysis about what he said. To me it clearly mouths him saying "learn the f-ing game". But there were people who wanted an investigation because they thought his lips read "f-ing ape".

    Darcy Tucker and another Lightning player got engaged with (I believe it was Worrell also) and prior to being escorted to the penalty box Tucker made a "chicken" gesture. No biggie. Well, not to some who thought it was mimmicking an ape. Huh? Tucker said he lost a lot of sleep over that accusation. Nothing came of it either.

    Don Cherry, I don't know, we all know how Don is by now. The name "Alpo" is actually a dog food though. And the % of players with visors were in favour of Euros and French players. So Don is right with those analogies, but out of line of course. I'm not sure comments like this or Kypreos' innocent comment like saying Lecavalier better "get a tan" if he ever wants to be compared to Jordan should ever be examined. There are far worse comments made out there. These ones I never feel are mean spirited and not intended to hurt.

    Lastly, Beezer was wrong for what he said about Daley. I personally feel a coach shouldn't talk like that. However, by all accounts he's a great man and I don't know about the rest of you but I can forgive a guy with his reputation for his tongue lashing out at the end of a bad loss. I never thought it was fair that they forced him out of the OHL. They "suggested" he sell his share of the Greyhounds. I didn't think that was right at all. I think it should have been kept within the team. I didn't agree with Daley walking out on the team either although this was based on Orr's advice. I guess I have the old fashioned viewpoint of dealing with it internally behind closed doors. Beezer was very apologetic about it and remorseful but they still threw him out. I disagree with that. He snapped at the end of a game and was simply human, and then fessed up to it.

    Good thread by the way. Never knew about the Carnegies.
     
  6. Iain Fyffe

    Iain Fyffe Hockey fact-checker

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    It's certainly a bit different. It wasn't "refs from Quebec" but "French" refs. Not everyone in Quebec is French, just as there are plenty of Francophone Ontarians.
     
  7. Breakfast of Champs

    Breakfast of Champs Registered User

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    I'm not sure if it was mentioned but Rane Canagie (grandson I believe of herb) who played for the halifax mooseheads had the n word chanted by a crowd in russia for a chl all-star game sometime around 2004-07
     
  8. quoipourquoi

    quoipourquoi Goaltender

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    Theodore and Roy were left off of more ballots than Iginla. Given the amount of votes Sakic received, I'd say any goodwill towards Iginla from the Olympics impacted the totals more than racism or the Calgary/Edmonton rivalry.
     
  9. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    speaking of kypreos, i never liked the way he always referred to bettman as a "new york lawyer." he wasn't/isn't close to the only one who used that phrase, but in my mind he always seemed to say it in the most mean-spirited way... with the exception, of course, of don, who of course never ends in his crusade to sanctify all the good christian canadian boys.

    now i know, literally gary bettman is a lawyer and he is from new york. and when hockey people say this to suggest that bettman isn't a hockey guy, it is easy to claim innocence. after all, bettman isn't a hockey guy (and i hate him as much as anybody). i also accept that this is just something people say without thinking what it suggests, and probably isn't meant to be actively racist or hurtful, even though the suggestion is racially motivated.

    but i've always been bothered by the anti-semitic overtones of that particular coinage, and there are many far better things to call bettman to suggest that he's not a hockey guy than "new york lawyer," as if to suggest that a true hockey guy can only be a strapping canadian christian.
     
  10. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    I'd love to have gotten into the minds of those voters. This was for some reason a weak year for Hart candidates. There wasn't a lot to choose from. It seems to me that most everyone would have pretty much the same players on their ballot, or should have
     
  11. Hasbro

    Hasbro Can He Skate?! Sponsor

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    Geting into nationalism/xenophobia would be even more numerous list.
     
  12. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    ^ i get that there are similarities and points of intersection between this and the xenophobic treatment of european and french canadian players, but i do think there is a racial distinction between anti-semitism, however veiled or unintentionally implied, and the kind of anti-european and anti-french canadian xenophobia that often gets misidentified as "racism" on these boards.
     
  13. Dennis Bonvie

    Dennis Bonvie Registered User

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    Agreed on Grapes.

    There will never be another like him.
     
  14. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    The implications probably vary from place to place, but I don't pick up an anti-Semitic overtone with "New York lawyer". I've always heard it as a euphemism for someone who has that urban, fast-talking, rob-you-blind-with-a-smile presentation. Lawyers are that way, New York is that way, so to be a New York lawyer is the peak of the con industry.

    The term "carpetbagger" has a similar overtone down here, with a slightly higher dose of derision.
     
  15. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    those, of course, are also racist stereotypes associated with jewish people.

    (i say this not as a jewish person, which i am not, but as someone who played minor hockey in canada where there was a good deal of unspoken anti-semitism that went along with which kids from which families were considered to be "heart and soul" and "team" players, etc.)

    EDIT: and this was in vancouver, not penticton, medicine hat, or moose jaw.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2011
  16. LeBlondeDemon10

    LeBlondeDemon10 BlindLemon Haystacks

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    I'm going to play devil's advocate. First and foremost, I do not condone pranks or stunts that can be taken the wrong way, as in the incident in London the other night. Nor am I naive to think that racism does not exist in Canadian society. As a person who worked in social work for 20 years, I have seen racism from many perspectives. However, it is possible that the offender in this incident threw the banana peel as a prank hoping Simmonds would slip, as in the cartoons. Perhaps a bit of a stretch, but its possible. The offender might not have been thinking about the alternative messages his behavior obviously conveyed. But the negative message may not have been his intent. Irregardless, many if not all have perceived this incident as an aggressive racial behavior. Whether it happened or not, racism exists in our society at many levels. Perhaps on more covert levels than we care to acknowledge.

    Further, I would ask any one who cares to respond to this post to respond intelligently. I have simply presented an alternative perspective.
     
  17. I think we are vastly overreacting to the Bananagate.

    Everything is not a racist conspiracy folks.
     
  18. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    Very interesting, never thought of it to be that way. Look, I've gotten out of hand once at a game, just once, but it happened. In 2004 after a heated game with the London Knights and the Kitchener Rangers in the OHL the Knights were bragging to the Rangers fans on the way off the ice. Corey Perry (yes THAT Corey Perry) was at the heart of the fan's rage and I had choice words for him, Dennis Wideman (yes THAT Wideman) and Dale Hunter the Knight's coach who we all know his reputation.

    Hunter just walked off the ice and didn't even look up but Perry and the rest of the Knights whooped it up. This enraged a lot of fans and there were a few empty water bottles hurled their way. I was so mad I threw a wrapped up hotdog wrapper towards him. He knew it was coming at him but it missed him and hit another Knight on his chest. Perry knew full well I was aiming it at him and he tried to draw the attention of the usher, to no avail. Anyway, it is a funny memory in a way but I was the adult I should have known better of course. So yes I once "snapped" at a game and did something I totally hate when others do.

    So what does this mean? Well, it was a knee jerk reaction from rage on my part. I didn't even think of what I was throwing. So could the fan have felt this same way? Was he just looking for the first thing to throw on the ice at Simmonds hoping to distract him? Was it a mere coincidence that Simmonds is black?

    I tend to want to believe that version but I don't think I can. For starters, where in the world can you even get a banana at a hockey game? I've never so much bought fruit from a game in my life. Which makes me think that this might have been a pre-meditated prank meant solely for Simmonds. I mean who wants to carry a banana around the whole game even for a prank?

    So I tend to fall on the fact that it's probably racism and meant to be. However, remember those moron fans in Toronto last year who came up with the idea to throw waffles? Luke Schenn I believe is the one who wondered if the ACC even SOLD waffles. So that means someone intentionally brought waffles to a game with the intention to throw them.

    So there is the slim chance that a person brings a banana, like a waffle, to a game and doesn't even think of the ramifications of having Simmonds be that player. I'd say there is an 80% chance this was racism intentionally (my own number out of the air) and about 20% likely that the fan was oblivious to how thie may be perceived.
     
  19. tjcurrie

    tjcurrie Registered User

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    Why would someone even have a banana at a game in the first place ? As far as I know, they don't sell em in most arenas. It sounds a little premeditated.
     
  20. Uncle Rotter

    Uncle Rotter Registered User

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    Here's one you missed:
    http://www.forward.com/articles/10404/
     
  21. BobbySmithFan

    BobbySmithFan Registered User

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    Exactly.

    As well, a banana was thrown at him twice during the game, only one hit the ice. It happened to Kevin Weekes and Anson Carter too so its not just an isolated incident.

    And I hate how Canadians give Don Cherry a free pass. If he were a southern guy from the United States saying the same things, everyone in Canada would dismiss him as an out of touch, redneck, racist.

    But because he mentions how great Canadians are, and has an exaggerated Canadian accent, he gets a free pass.

    Imagine if a southern white guy said ``tattoos in the NBA...its all for black guys, they should ban them...`` what would happen to him?
     
  22. What does Don Cherry say thats even remotely racist? Does he call Evander Kane the n word? No.

    Whatever he says about the Europeans, that aint racist.
     
  23. BillyShoe1721

    BillyShoe1721 Terriers

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    Another supposed example:

    Hy Buller was a Jewish defenseman in the 1940s and 1950s who played 8 seasons in the AHL and was consistently one of the best players in the league, and one of the best defensemen. Yet, he never got a shot with an NHL team. It wasn't until 1951-52 that he finally got a full-time shot in the NHL with the New York Rangers. That year, he was named a 2nd team All Star as a defenseman, finishing 2nd in points among defensemen(Red Kelly was far away first with 47 to Buller's 35, but 3rd place Doug Harvey only had 29). He finished 4th in points among defensemen in 52-53 as well. The speculation is that his Jewish background was what kept him in the AHL for so long, despite certainly being an NHL-caliber player. There isn't anything to prove this definitively, just something that seems very logical. There is just one quote about it from a source that is questionable in terms of hockey credibility:

    -Jews in Sports Online
     
  24. Iain Fyffe

    Iain Fyffe Hockey fact-checker

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    I'm one Canadian who doesn't. "Out of touch" is about the politest thing you could say.

    How about "chicken Swede"? Attributing a characteristic to a "race" of people is the definition of racism.
     
  25. LeBlondeDemon10

    LeBlondeDemon10 BlindLemon Haystacks

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    Yeah, I know where you are coming from. I have certainly done things in the heat of the moment I am not proud of. I also don't believe in accidents. Everything happens for a reason. So like you, I would wager this is premeditated.
     

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