Post-Game Talk: #9 | Hurricanes at Flyers | October 30, 2023 | Loss 3-2

[freakydallas13]

Carolina is nothing like the Flyers and their offensive thinking is the precise opposite of Tortorella's.

When this management group (which is unchanged) spends years referencing how they want to be the Islanders (with a reference to the Blues for method of building) we should take them seriously, especially since their actions align with their words.

Nothing they've said or done indicates they want to be Carolina.

Carolina also hasn't won anything, not even been to a cup final. Just like all those tanking teams we can't emulate because they haven't won either

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Thought the Flyers really struggled in the 1st but the game shifted after that. Should have at least gotten a point, if not 2. Have to finish one of those chances in the 3rd.

Also minute 12 to 8 was insanely fun hockey

 

[Philly Fanatik]

Carolina also hasn't won anything, not even been to a cup final. Just like all those tanking teams we can't emulate because they haven't won either

I think Carolina got put out in the 2002 finals by Detroit.
And I am thinking they won it in 2006 against the Oilers.
Maybe?

 

[Curufinwe]

He's talking about the modern, stat driven Canes, I think.

 

[flyerslducks]

Hart deserved better

He always does

 

[flyerslducks]

Frost LOST a FACEOFF?!??!

Send him to the AHL.

Lol the whole team was ass at faceoff too

 

[deadhead]

I know what you mean. It's certainly frustrating that he didn't score.

In the same vein, he was involved in 3-5 dangerous scoring chances, and routinely involved in those types. While in this instance, it sucked that he tried to force a pass through, I'll live with it because he's the consistently generating offensive chances.

So will Torts. He's said he can live with TK's mistakes b/c he's always trying to make something happen (just means some more classic Torts expressions).

If Frost plays on a regular basis like he did in the third period, he'll never sniff the press box again.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Brian Boucher aptly described the Canes’ offensive strategy as “flinging pucks.”

They took criticism last playoffs for being such a shoot-from-distance team.

But people on this board swear they have a creative offensive system.

 

[deadhead]

Carolina has made the POs five straight seasons, lost in the 2nd rd twice, CF twice.
Biggest problem they've had is a parade of goaltenders, who look good behind this team in the regular season but can't win the big games in the playoffs.

 

[dragonoffrost]

I am so glad I had the right mindset yesterday...

WHY BOTHER?

 

[Curufinwe]

I only really watched the 3rd period closely, but it was fun and the team got the right result.

 

[deadhead]

The whole game, except the first ten minutes was fun.
One thing that has changed is this Flyers team has the speed to keep up with faster teams.
Inexperience, lack of elite skill and lack of depth on defense are the biggest holes.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Brian Boucher aptly described the Canes’ offensive strategy as “flinging pucks.”

They took criticism last playoffs for being such a shoot-from-distance team.

But people on this board swear they have a creative offensive system.

That's because on entries and on situations in the cycle they are a creative offensive system. They shoot junk a lot and they also create real things a lot. When play hits a point where it's a dead end they'd rather get the puck on net instead of wasting time grinding the boards until possession changes. Those shots also often cause faceoffs, and Carolina runs many plays off faceoffs. Watch enough of them, Tampa, and Colorado, and you see plays repeating themselves.


You'd think by now you'd know that passing judgement on teams in this part of the season is unwise. Everyone is still knocking rust off and getting on the same page. By the end of the season Carolina will be back at the top of the league at running a wide variety of set plays.

Safe to say neither you nor Boucher know what Carolina is doing. Boosh has been sadly mailing it in lately.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

That's because on entries and on situations in the cycle they are a creative offensive system. They shoot junk a lot and they also create real things a lot. When play hits a point where it's a dead end they'd rather get the puck on net instead of wasting time grinding the boards until possession changes. Those shots also often cause faceoffs, and Carolina runs many plays off faceoffs.


You'd think by now you'd know that passing judgement on teams in this part of the season is unwise. Everyone is still knocking rust off and getting on the same page. By the end of the season Carolina will be back at the top of the league at running a wide variety of set plays.

Safe to say neither you nor Boucher know what Carolina is doing. Boosh has been sadly mailing it in lately.

Carolina is a very good team. That’s why the Flyers’ performance is so encouraging.

I’m not passing judgment on Carolina. Their system has been effective for them. I am commenting about how people who call them a creative offensive system don’t watch them closely.

Because Carolina is a dump & chase team who fires more point-shots than any team in the league (or close to it). And that’s the way they’ve always operated under Brind’Amour. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

Ironically, many of the same people who routinely blasted Hakstol for a system that relied on point shots rave about Carolina’s system, which heavily relies on point shots.

Anyway, Carolina’s calling card isn’t their offensive system. It’s their ferocious forechecking & backchecking.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Carolina has finished 1st, 2nd, & 4th the last three seasons in high danger shots for at 5v5.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Gee a Defense with Brett Burns, Jakob Slavin, and Tony D are firing pucks to the net.... BIG SHOCKER. They are 3 known offensively skilled defensemen. Slavin doesn't score as often with his shot but he gets rebounds that get driven home or it's accurate enough to be tipped in.

 

[deadhead]

Carolina has finished 1st, 2nd, & 4th the last three seasons in high danger shots for at 5v5.

I wonder what % is from rushes and set plays, and what from forced turnovers.
Carolina not only pressures the puck as good as any NHL team, but they're quick to jump on turnovers and convert them into scoring opportunities.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Carolina is a very good team. That’s why the Flyers’ performance is so encouraging.

I’m not passing judgment on Carolina. Their system has been effective for them. I am commenting about how people who call them a creative offensive system don’t watch them closely.

Because Carolina is a dump & chase team who fires more point-shots than any team in the league (or close to it). And that’s the way they’ve always operated under Brind’Amour. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

Ironically, many of the same people who routinely blasted Hakstol for a system that relied on point shots rave about Carolina’s system, which heavily relies on point shots.

Anyway, Carolina’s calling card isn’t their offensive system. It’s their ferocious forechecking & backchecking.

I just explained to you why they are a creative offensive system, and how. If anything, anyone who doesn't get that isn't watching them closely. It's quite the opposite.

You are the only person I've ever seen who describes Carolina as a dump-in team. Because that's absolutely not their priority. They will if it's what the situation calls for, and they have very well designed dump and retrievals instead of getting it deep and hoping for the best. They heavily prefer to maintain possession.

Hakstol's system existed explicitly to set up point shots. That's what people bashed. You know this. It was explained to you repeatedly for years. I don't know why you are lying about that. Carolina's system does not exist to explicitly set up blue line shots. That's what they generally do instead of dumping the puck. Where other teams dump to the corner, Carolina tends to throw on net. It isn't their main goal. Kind of a humongous difference.

Separating forechecking away from offensive system is a really weird thing to try to do. That doesn't make any sense. Of course, you've often argued that the entire sum of an offensive system is formation alone and not what is done from that formation, so I am skeptical that you really understand how NHL offense works.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Carolina has finished 1st, 2nd, & 4th the last three seasons in high danger shots for at 5v5.

It's hard to imagine a more wildly inaccurate assessment of a team.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Woooooof.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Carolina has finished 1st, 2nd, & 4th the last three seasons in high danger shots for at 5v5.

Now, do you think that’s the result of their “offensive system” or defensive/forechecking system?

 

[Magua]

Carolina has finished 1st, 2nd, & 4th the last three seasons in high danger shots for at 5v5.

Going to take a shot in the dark: missing Svechnikov and Teravainen for basically the entire playoffs, while not acquiring forward help at the deadline, didn't help their offense convert their chances!

You are the only person I've ever seen who describes Carolina as a dump-in team.

They are quite aggressively a dump and chase team, but it just goes back to a core theory: net impact. Really the goal is getting more controlled entries than the other team, which Carolina still does despite a lot of uncontrolled entries! Just like the goal is scoring more than the other team. Complex stuff, eh? Haphazardly copying what works for other teams, not catering your systems to the talents of your players -- that's for the dunderhead franchises.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Going to take a shot in the dark: missing Svechnikov and Teravainen for basically the entire playoffs, while not acquiring forward help at the deadline, didn't help their offense convert their chances!



They are quite aggressively a dump and chase team, but it just goes back to a core theory: net impact. Really the goal is getting more controlled entries than the other team, which Carolina still does despite a lot of uncontrolled entries! Just like the goal is scoring more than the other team. Complex stuff, eh? Haphazardly copying what works for other teams, not catering your systems to the talents of your players -- that's for the dunderhead franchises.

I thought it was a pretty even split between dumps and controlled? The main thing that stands out is they're excellent at doing the thing the situation best calls for. If the blue line/NZ are defended, puck goes behind. If they have space, puck gets carried, and in that situation they're really good at turning that into yet more space. They're especially effective at running that entry drop pass/crossover/pick move that can leave a dude wide open for slot chances.

 

[deadhead]

Haphazardly copying what works for other teams, not catering your systems to the talents of your players -- that's for the dunderhead franchises.

I'd say they've obtained the players that fit their scheme, they've been pretty aggressive turning over the roster.

2018-19: added Hamilton (T), Ferland (T), Svechnikov (R), Neiderreiter (T) (in Jan), Wallmark (R), Martinook (T), Foegele (R), De Haan (FA), Mrazek (FA), McElhinney (W)

That's basically half the team.

 

[Magua]

I thought it was a pretty even split between dumps and controlled? The main thing that stands out is they're excellent at doing the thing the situation best calls for. If the blue line/NZ are defended, puck goes behind. If they have space, puck gets carried, and in that situation they're really good at turning that into yet more space. They're especially effective at running that entry drop pass/crossover/pick move that can leave a dude wide open for slot chances.

They're always among the leaders in dump and chasing. But this is the key part: they don't make their best players do it. It's not one-size-fits-all. The guys who you'd think are elite forecheckers dump and chase. The guys who you think can use skill for entries do so. Every single player is encouraged to play to his strengths.