GDT: #81| Saturday, Apr 8 2017| Blue Jackets at Flyers |12:30 p.m. ET| CSN

[BritainStix]

So you guys didn't realize that rebuilding through the draft would be painful?

You think the Blackhawks were fun to watch just before they assmebled their current core by drafting? How about the Pens?

It hasn't even as bad for us as most teams when they rebuild. We've made the playoffs every other year and at the very least we're seeing the rewards of the drafting. This year was miserable but it could be way worse and at the very least they're moving in the right direction. The flaws the team has right now are covered in the prospect pool, so at least there's a reason for real optimism.

Does Hakstol suck? Yeah, every coach does. They all do the same stupid **** that earns hate from the fanbase. Pens just won the cup last year and they ***** about their coach constantly with complaints that sound exactly like the ones in here. When the team is improved in the next few years, not even his stupidity will be able to mess it up. They'll either be successful or not, but that depends on the players and how good they become. Team win in spite of coaching, not because of it.

I agree with your post, but using the blackhawks as an example wasn't a great choice. They were horrific for yeaers because their owner was one of the worst in all of pro sports. When he died they finally started pulling themselves out of a mess.

 

[Delete99991]

Does Hakstol suck? Yeah, every coach does. They all do the same stupid **** that earns hate from the fanbase. Pens just won the cup last year and they ***** about their coach constantly with complaints that sound exactly like the ones in here. When the team is improved in the next few years, not even his stupidity will be able to mess it up. They'll either be successful or not, but that depends on the players and how good they become. Team win in spite of coaching, not because of it.

Oh ok, thanks for clearing things up.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Actually I'd say the Pens win last year largely because of coaching. Sullivan had a different game plan for every opponent to attack their weaknesses.

 

[Striiker]

I agree with your post, but using the blackhawks as an example wasn't a great choice. They were horrific for yeaers because their owner was one of the worst in all of pro sports. When he died they finally started pulling themselves out of a mess.

I know, but my point was just that it could be much worse. No matter what the reason for them being bad, being bad is how you get better.

Actually I'd say the Pens win last year largely because of coaching. Sullivan had a different game plan for every opponent to attack their weaknesses.

And most of them still hate him. No fanbase is ever happy with the coach, and it's the same complaints about their obsessions with playing horrible players too much.

 

[Rebels57]

I know, but my point was just that it could be much worse. No matter what the reason for them being bad, being bad is how you get better.



And most of them still hate him. No fanbase is ever happy with the coach, and it's the same complaints about their obsessions with playing horrible players too much.

Pens fans are cretins though. When the Flyers win the Cup again, their coach will be treated as a deity and have marble statues all over Philly and South Jersey.

 

[Garbage Goal]

So you guys didn't realize that rebuilding through the draft would be painful?

You think the Blackhawks were fun to watch just before they assmebled their current core by drafting? How about the Pens?

It hasn't even as bad for us as most teams when they rebuild. We've made the playoffs every other year and at the very least we're seeing the rewards of the drafting. This year was miserable but it could be way worse and at the very least they're moving in the right direction. The flaws the team has right now are covered in the prospect pool, so at least there's a reason for real optimism.

Does Hakstol suck? Yeah, every coach does. They all do the same stupid **** that earns hate from the fanbase. Pens just won the cup last year and they ***** about their coach constantly with complaints that sound exactly like the ones in here. When the team is improved in the next few years, not even his stupidity will be able to mess it up. They'll either be successful or not, but that depends on the players and how good they become. Team win in spite of coaching, not because of it.

Most of the complaints above aren't really referring to that. In fact, I don't really see anybody saying that. We've finished lower in the standings, specifically the year we drafted Provorov, and the people you seem to be responding to weren't saying this type of stuff then. I can't speak for anybody else, I'm just tired of this team doing routinely predictable things that aren't conducive to long-term or short-term success. Such as hanging on to coaches when it's clear their expiration date is closing in or, more annoyingly, ruining their draft pick position only after they've already been eliminated from the playoffs. This team could have easily had a top nine, and probably higher, pick if they didn't decide to suddenly be good in the last fifteen~ games of the season.

Rebuilding is needed to become good long-term. That's largely because you land high draft picks because of it. What the team is doing now, has been doing for the last handful of games, and has done in past seasons is ruin their draft positioning at the most meaningless part of the season to start winning.

The Blackhawks had some of the worst ownership in the world and had 1st (Kane) and 3rd overall (Toews) picks. The Pens had two 1st overall (Crosby/Fleury) and two 2nd overall (Staal/Malkin) picks, with two of them being generational talents. Neither team is probably the most applicable situation to apply to us, especially in the context of the discussion of winning meaningless games to ruin draft position. Considering both had multiple top three picks that ended up being vital to their long-term success.

As for the Hakstol discussion, that's one I don't care to talk to anyone about anymore. I'm not particularly sold on him either way, but I'm definitely more pessimistic about his longevity here than I am optimistic.

 

[BillDineen]

Well the winning streak is on Hextall. He chose to improve his team at the deadline and waited until the last games to test younger players. It may have been to give the Phantoms their best chance, but it would have been better for next year's Flyers team to have Morin, Hagg and/or Sanheim play 10 games or so.

 

[Striiker]

Most of the complaints above aren't really referring to that. In fact, I don't really see anybody saying that. We've finished lower in the standings, specifically the year we drafted Provorov, and the people you seem to be responding to weren't saying this type of stuff then. I can't speak for anybody else, I'm just tired of this team doing routinely predictable things that aren't conducive to long-term or short-term success. Such as hanging on to coaches when it's clear their expiration date is closing in or, more annoyingly, ruining their draft pick position only after they've already been eliminated from the playoffs. This team could have easily had a top nine, and probably higher, pick if they didn't decide to suddenly be good in the last fifteen~ games of the season.

Rebuilding is needed to become good long-term. That's largely because you land high draft picks because of it. What the team is doing now, has been doing for the last handful of games, and has done in past seasons is ruin their draft positioning at the most meaningless part of the season to start winning.

The Blackhawks had some of the worst ownership in the world and had 1st (Kane) and 3rd overall (Toews) picks. The Pens had two 1st overall (Crosby/Fleury) and two 2nd overall (Staal/Malkin) picks, with two of them being generational talents. Neither team is probably the most applicable situation to apply to us, especially in the context of the discussion of winning meaningless games to ruin draft position. Considering both had multiple top three picks that ended up being vital to their long-term success.

As for the Hakstol discussion, that's one I don't care to talk to anyone about anymore. I'm not particularly sold on him either way, but I'm definitely more pessimistic about his longevity here than I am optimistic.

I was referring to people who are saying that they're losing faith in the rebuild... as if what's happening now is unusual or setting us back. What's happening is what should be expected. Up and down years as we add good and remove bad whenever possible.
It's not going to be a smooth transition so seasons like this are to be expected and endured. This years events don't set us back at all or negatively effect the future of the team, even Hakstol stupidity isn't bad enough to hurt us long term.

We have lots of trash on the team and they're going to be replaced soon, many of them as soon as next year. We need defense, we have great defensive prospects. We need goaltending, we have great goaltending prospects. We need forwards, and we have some decent prospects that will be added to this year.

 

[Appleyard]

Look at the Penguins, Blackhawks and L.A.

All three had a different coach a year and a half before they won their first cup.

Heck, Penguins (both times!) and L.A. both had different coaches to start their cup seasons than they finished with.


Not saying that will be Hakstol's fate, but it does show that we are not exactly alone as a fanbase of a young, talented team frustrated with their coach. Did not affect their players development or how good the team ended up.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Well the winning streak is on Hextall. He chose to improve his team at the deadline and waited until the last games to test younger players. It may have been to give the Phantoms their best chance, but it would have been better for next year's Flyers team to have Morin, Hagg and/or Sanheim play 10 games or so.

I wouldn't place it on Hextall, not solely anyway. Only move I'd place fully on him is the Filp trade, which is a good trade regardless of the whole draft thing. There's no knowing how much the coach's say matters when it comes to call-ups and likely the only reason these guys are being called up is to see if they have an inkling of NHL readiness in them. If anything, I'd place it on Hakstol and the mainstay players for being a middling team for 90% of the season.

Regardless, I never mentioned blame before. Just saying that this team ruining their draft position in a rebuild year, during a small section of the season where they're eliminated from the playoffs, was quite literally the most predictable Flyers hockey thing that could have happened.

I was referring to people who are saying that they're losing faith in the rebuild... as if what's happening now is unusual or setting us back. What's happening is what should be expected. Up and down years as we add good and remove bad whenever possible.
It's not going to be a smooth transition so seasons like this are to be expected and endured. This years events don't set us back at all or negatively effect the future of the team, even Hakstol stupidity isn't bad enough to hurt us long term.

We have lots of trash on the team and they're going to be replaced soon, many of them as soon as next year. We need defense, we have great defensive prospects. We need goaltending, we have great goaltending prospects. We need forwards, and we have some decent prospects that will be added to this year.

That's fair. There's things to worry about with the rebuild, but none of them have to do with Hextall or what he's done. I just tune out those kinds of people whose first inclination is to knee jerk react to everything.

 

[Striiker]

That's fair. There's things to worry about with the rebuild, but none of them have to do with Hextall or what he's done. I just tune out those kinds of people whose first inclination is to knee jerk react to everything.

Yeah, of course nothing is guaranteed when it comes to prospects, but Hextall hasn't don't anything yet that worries me at all.

The drafting has been fantastic. The FA player signings haven't turned out great (Gordon, Weise, etc), but, with the information we had at the time, I can understand the logic behind all of them and none of them are expensive or long enough to hurt us long term.

Even the coaching choices. I think Hakstol is an idiot, but I also think that about every single coach in the league, so might as well throw a Hail Mary and pick a college coach instead of a recycled NHL guy who has already been fired multiple times. That's also why I don't blame Hextall for not firing him yet, I don't see any point since anyone who replaces him will do the same stupid things with player usage.

I'm still very happy with what he's done so far and I think he's done a great job at setting us up for future success, at least as much as he realistically could.

 

[deadhead]

Not saying that will be Hakstol's fate, but it does show that we are not exactly alone as a fanbase of a young, talented team frustrated with their coach. Did not affect their players development or how good the team ended up.

Problem is we're not a young, talented, team, YET.

Next year is when you can say that when Morin, Sanheim, Hagg, and Lindblom (and maybe one or two others, Stolarz, Leier, Laughton, MV) join the team.

To me, this season was easily predicted, this is basically the same team we've had the last five years, add Provorov, subtract a decent Streit, add a Ghost and Gudas, no more Kimmo and Coburn, shuffle the bottom six, play goalie roulette and lose. Toward the end of the season with Weal and Filppula, the front nine started making sense, the defense was still a shambles, the goalies were head cases. But it was a 85-95 point team starting the season and it's the same finishing the season.

Nor can you ask players and coaches to tank a season, they're professionals, if they were to tank you'd have to dump them. Even the Sixers refuse to tank, they're losing b/c of talent deficiencies.

 

[Tripod]

In the end Hextall is not perfect. He has made mistakes, but also has made great moves and totally re-built our prospect base.

I hope we grab the steal of the draft with Boston's 3rd rounder so that Rinaldo will, always be linked to that pick.

 

[Curufinwe]

Yes, you can see Couts' sleeve move and the puck change direction.

It's been changed now.

That guy who started the poll about whether Couturier would get over 13 goals must be devastated.

 

[BernieParent]

So you guys didn't realize that rebuilding through the draft would be painful?

You think the Blackhawks were fun to watch just before they assmebled their current core by drafting? How about the Pens?

It hasn't even as bad for us as most teams when they rebuild. We've made the playoffs every other year and at the very least we're seeing the rewards of the drafting. This year was miserable but it could be way worse and at the very least they're moving in the right direction. The flaws the team has right now are covered in the prospect pool, so at least there's a reason for real optimism.

Does Hakstol suck? Yeah, every coach does. They all do the same stupid **** that earns hate from the fanbase. Pens just won the cup last year and they ***** about their coach constantly with complaints that sound exactly like the ones in here. When the team is improved in the next few years, not even his stupidity will be able to mess it up. They'll either be successful or not, but that depends on the players and how good they become. Team win in spite of coaching, not because of it.

The Hawks and Penguins were somewhere between intentionally bad and neglectfully mediocre. The current Flyers roster should be much more competitive were it not for a near across-the-board downgrade in play. We expected the defense to be bad; it would have been much worse than expected had Provorov not channeled a 10-year veteran to play top minutes. Goaltending was a soiled diaper. And the forwards underwhelmed throughout most of the season. Spectacularly poor coaching decisions and a steadfast reluctance to change the PP when it was month-old bread joined forces with some key injuries to torpedo the season.

Like I posted, patience in the process does not necessarily equate to accepting mediocre play, particularly from players with a much higher ceiling than was shown this season.