GDT: #81: FLYERS at Blues, Thursday, April 4, 2019, 8:00 p.m. ET

[Illini Flyer]

Really think a respected coach could go a long way to helping our veteran player's consistency and attitudes and our team's overall game plan. Can't really blame the skill players for being pissed that the organization has wasted a good amount of their prime years. They get surrounded by slop in the lower half of the forward ranks and then get blamed for everything when we don't make the playoffs, shitty double edged sword there.

 

[landsbergfan]

It doesn't matter what you think you are getting for him. Take your expectations and lower them. No one is giving up a high end prospect or a supposed 1 for 1 swap with "another problem guy " (problems are okay as long as they are different problems?)

Jake was a 22 year old when he was traded and btw it was because of the very same reasons he is being talked about getting traded now. He took that feedback and it helped him grow into the player he is now. Wearing his heart on his sleeve is a bullshit reason to trade a guy. I recall Giroux getting crushed on HB a couple years back when he was "cooked" and he made a terrible effort on a back check. Look what happens when he plays next to Coots. Jake is the reason that is possible. He is the guy that suffers for making Giroux-Coots possible because he is the one that has to carry the 2nd line mostly on his own. He is the guy that makes Patrick at 2C a possibility. There is no top 6 without him.

It just blows my mind how quick people are to turn on guys who are actually good at hockey because they don't have their best every single game. Especially after the way the season has gone. Mess of a team under a coach who should've been fired months ago...TRADE THE CORE. Team goes on a crazy run to fight back into the playoff conversation...silence. Team falls short because they were in too deep of a hole despite the fact that several signs point towards their interim coach not actually knowing what he is doing...TRADE THE CORE. It is mind numbing. To Gritty's Kitchen I go.

 

[dragonoffrost]

30 times this team has been down 2-0 ... that's just insane. That is more than just bad coaching.

 

[WIP CALLER]

I wonder if Jake will tweet about this thread.

 

[Branko]

So who are we getting when trading away the 6th highest scoring RW over the past 5 seasons?

Clearly this was thoroughly thought out so I'm interested to hear this plan.

I agree that the last thing we want on this roster is size, speed, and skill, so Voracek has to go! He's basically a cap dump.

So you basically want the same roster that played SO WELL this year going into 19-20? How do you expect that to work out? All I've seen from you is crying and name calling when people suggest trading players like Ghost or Voracek. Nobody is devaluing them but changes clearly need to be made.

You're like the guys in my fantasy football league that try trading me 2 garbage players and a kicker for OBJ. You need to trade value to get value. Changes are GOING to be made this offseason and a shake up is in order. Chuck should explore every trade option available to him - hell, I would even include G (NMC aside) and Coots (Note before I get blasted - it would take a hell of a deal to trade Coots but if it upgraded the team I would do it).

 

[landsbergfan]

30 times this team has been down 2-0 ... that's just insane. That is more than just bad coaching.

Great way to find out is to hire something other than a bad coach

 

[Branko]

I wonder if Jake will tweet about this thread.

If he does, then it'll do nothing but emphasize our point.

 

[WIP CALLER]

The only way I'm trading Jake is if we sign Panarin first. Other wise the value we get won't make up for the scoring we will lose. Plus with his contract we won't get fair value. The issues with this team do not lie with the core. These guys haven't had a proper nhl coach in 5+ years...

 

[WIP CALLER]

So you basically want the same roster that played SO WELL this year going into 19-20? How do you expect that to work out? All I've seen from you is crying and name calling when people suggest trading players like Ghost or Voracek. Nobody is devaluing them but changes clearly need to be made.

You're like the guys in my fantasy football league that try trading me 2 garbage players and a kicker for OBJ. You need to trade value to get value. Changes are GOING to be made this offseason and a shake up is in order. Chuck should explore every trade option available to him - hell, I would even include G (NMC aside) and Coots (Note before I get blasted - it would take a hell of a deal to trade Coots but if it upgraded the team I would do it).

You do not trade a player like coots ever. And who would replace G's scoring in a trade? Terrible. Even trading voracek, you better pray we get Panarin otherwise we're going to lose a ton of points. Teams aren't going to give us an equal player for Jake with his contract..

 

[Striiker]

So you basically want the same roster that played SO WELL this year going into 19-20? How do you expect that to work out? All I've seen from you is crying and name calling when people suggest trading players like Ghost or Voracek. Nobody is devaluing them but changes clearly need to be made.

You're like the guys in my fantasy football league that try trading me 2 garbage players and a kicker for OBJ. You need to trade value to get value. Changes are GOING to be made this offseason and a shake up is in order. Chuck should explore every trade option available to him - hell, I would even include G (NMC aside) and Coots (Note before I get blasted - it would take a hell of a deal to trade Coots but if it upgraded the team I would do it).

What a horrible, clueless, irrational post.

Let me spell this out:
The team doesn't get better by trading guys like Ghost and Voracek.
I want the team to be good, trading them makes it worse, so I don't want them traded.
It's just that simple.

They're part of the group of guys carrying the team on their backs to the wins they do manage to get. That's why I defend them when people say insane things, like we just saw in this thread. If you guys think trading them is a smart move, then yes, you are absolutely devaluing them. It means you failed to properly judge their abilities and importance to this team. The team isn't bad because of them... that should be abundantly clear to anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention. If you're desperate to make changes, you remove problems, not your top players.

Blaming them means you guys can't properly diagnose what's wrong with this team, so you're lazy lashing out at the core.

What do we need to do to improve the team?
REPLACE the coaching staff
INSTALL a new system
ADD depth behind the top guys
REMOVE bad players
CONTINUE developing youth

 

[bennysflyers16]

How did i miss that Jake quote ???
He should not be lumping himself in with Couts and Giroux, even his biggest supporters I doubt can dispute that.

 

[Striiker]

How did i miss that Jake quote ???
He should not be lumping himself in with Couts and Giroux, even his biggest supporters I doubt can dispute that.

He's indisputably part of the core... he's been here 8 seasons and has been one of our best players the entire time.

Also, that quote was a sarcastic response to an idiot beat writer.

 

[bennysflyers16]

What a horrible, clueless, irrational post.

Let me spell this out:
The team doesn't get better by trading guys like Ghost and Voracek.
I want the team to be good, trading them makes it worse, so I don't want them traded.
It's just that simple.

They're part of the group of guys carrying the team on their backs to the wins they do manage to get. That's why I defend them when people say insane things, like we just saw in this thread. If you guys think trading them is a smart move, then yes, you are absolutely devaluing them. It means you failed to properly judge their abilities and importance to this team. The team isn't bad because of them... that should be abundantly clear to anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention. If you're desperate to make changes, you remove problems, not your top players.

Blaming them means you guys can't properly diagnose what's wrong with this team, so you're lazy lashing out at the core.

What do we need to do to improve the team?
REPLACE the coaching staff
INSTALL a new system
ADD depth behind the top guys
REMOVE bad players
CONTINUE developing youth

If Jake is so valuable, you don’t think he could be valued by another team and get us fair value to something more needed ( goal scorer ) in a hockey trade ?

G and Couts can carry a line, Jake can not imo

 

[WIP CALLER]

If Jake is so valuable, you don’t think he could be valued by another team and get us fair value to something more needed ( goal scorer ) in a hockey trade ?

G and Couts can carry a line, Jake can not imo

Jake has carried the 2nd line all year. He drives that line.

 

[bennysflyers16]

He's indisputably part of the core... he's been here 8 seasons and has been one of our best players the entire time.

Also, that quote was a sarcastic response to an idiot beat writer.

Sure he’s part of the core, but he isn’t in the same level as Couts and Giroux , not even close.

 

[Striiker]

FOR THE PEOPLE FREAKING OUT OVER THE QUOTE

Sarcasm and mocking an idiot writer

Sure he’s part of the core, but he isn’t in the same level as Couts and Giroux , not even close.

Doesn't matter. The point is the beat writer suggested the core should be broken up and Voracek sarcastically responded to him.

Zero wrong with that quote. If anything, we need more of that. It shows he cares.

 

[Danko]

Sielski half watches the flyers and then just tries to write at least one provoking article every year to piss everyone off.

 

[deadhead]

Voracek is what he is, he's never been a good ES player, he scores for both teams, but he was a top PP producer.
He's expendable for the right deal, but he's also a RW, and until Allison/Laczynski/Kase prove they're top six players, Flyers should think twice before moving him.
Especially since TK has his head up his butt this year, and needs some hard coaching to turn him around.

What this team needs is a serious upgrade over Gordon, who is terrible.
And some patience, since they may be the youngest team in the NHL next year.

 

[Striiker]

Sielski half watches the flyers and then just tries to write at least one provoking article every year to piss everyone off.

And it worked.

He wrote something stupid, Voracek mocked him, and then somehow directed their irrational anger at Voracek without even understanding what happened.

 

[Branko]

What a horrible, clueless, irrational post.

Let me spell this out:
The team doesn't get better by trading guys like Ghost and Voracek.
I want the team to be good, trading them makes it worse, so I don't want them traded.
It's just that simple.

They're part of the group of guys carrying the team on their backs to the wins they do manage to get. That's why I defend them when people say insane things, like we just saw in this thread. If you guys think trading them is a smart move, then yes, you are absolutely devaluing them. It means you failed to properly judge their abilities and importance to this team. The team isn't bad because of them... that should be abundantly clear to anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention. If you're desperate to make changes, you remove problems, not your top players.

Blaming them means you guys can't properly diagnose what's wrong with this team, so you're lazy lashing out at the core.

What do we need to do to improve the team?
REPLACE the coaching staff
INSTALL a new system
ADD depth behind the top guys
REMOVE bad players
CONTINUE developing youth

Again...not blaming Ghost or Voracek directly for the poor play of the team. Changes need to be made or we're going to keep spinning our tires as a fringe playoff team. How can you say that trading Ghost or Voracek makes the team worse when you don't even know what the return would be in a trade?

I agree with your suggestions to improve the team, but this core has been around since 2012 and hasn't won anything. How is wanting a core change clueless and irrational? If anything, suggesting the players of an 11TH PLACE HOCKEY TEAM have nothing to do with the issues is irrational.

I could go back to 1995 and replace the names Ghost and Voracek in your post with the name Recchi. I'm only suggesting trading Ghost because he is probably our best trade asset right now and can be used to upgrade the team.

Voracek, - I'm just tired of his act. Those quotes were the end for me. HE FLAT OUT SUGGESTED THEY TRADE THE CORE IN AN INTERVIEW.

Dude is a talent for sure but don't act like he's not replaceable, because he is. But keep using BIG LETTERS to support your argument - it's definitely working.

 

[Branko]

You do not trade a player like coots ever. And who would replace G's scoring in a trade? Terrible. Even trading voracek, you better pray we get Panarin otherwise we're going to lose a ton of points. Teams aren't going to give us an equal player for Jake with his contract..

So if Edmonton offers you McDavid for Coots and a package of picks you say no? Right. It was a hypothetical, man. Not suggesting they trade him, but anybody is available for the right package.

 

[Striiker]

Again...not blaming Ghost or Voracek directly for the poor play of the team. Changes need to be made or we're going to keep spinning our tires as a fringe playoff team. How can you say that trading Ghost or Voracek makes the team worse when you don't even know what the return would be in a trade?

I agree with your suggestions to improve the team, but this core has been around since 2012 and hasn't won anything. How is wanting a core change clueless and irrational? If anything, suggesting the players of an 11TH PLACE HOCKEY TEAM have nothing to do with the issues is irrational.

Changes need to be made, but those are not the people you change.

The core hasn't won anything but that has nothing to do with them. Look at the coaching, the lack of depth behind them, the goaltending, the defense before the kids came up... they never had a chance and that's 0% their faults.
They've done their jobs and then some...

Making changes for the sake of changes isn't how you improve the team. We have to be smart and recognize exactly what needs to be changed, otherwise you'll just make things worse. The core isn't it.

Voracek, - I'm just tired of his act. Those quotes were the end for me. HE FLAT OUT SUGGESTED THEY TRADE THE CORE IN AN INTERVIEW.

Dude is a talent for sure but don't act like he's not replaceable, because he is. But keep using BIG LETTERS to support your argument - it's definitely working.

Again, it was sarcasm. He was mocking what a beat wrote when that same beat writer asked a dumb question.

This irrational hate he gets is out of control.

 

[DancingPanther]

You really would've impressed me much if you hit em with the "Whatever it takes, dude"

I watched that documentary countless times as a kid. The spray can of hair, lol

 

[DancingPanther]

cone on, at least pretend like you pay attention more than at a periphery level.

doesn't Weise play for Montreal?

Yeah, I should definitely pretend harder

 

[CapnZin]

TAKE KNIGHT OUT OF THE f***ING LINEUP AND ADD IN NAK!!!

In all honestly, I’m probably gonna laugh when Greg Carey is called up or Justin “AHL” Bailey get the remaining games.