Post-Game Talk: #8 | Ducks at Flyers | October 28, 2023 | Flyers lose 7-4

[ajgoal]

Zootopia

That's also a good movie.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

They are actually tied for 12th....and 15th in winning %

But Lots of people said the Flyers would start fast, like usual, then start to fade.

They have lost 3 of their last 4.

They will be better than last year if Couts stays healthy and Hart plays. But still expect them in that 8-12th worst teams.

losses are piling up

 

[Tripod]

losses are piling up

3 of 4....with a tough game tomorrow....so could be 4 of 5

 

[Flyerfan4life]

3 of 4....with a tough game tomorrow....so could be 4 of 5

"cant you just enjoy the wins!"..

 

[deadhead]

It's not about wins and losses, they are rebuilding, just not the way some would like them to.

The key to watch are metrics like xGF%, HDCF%, SCF% and to a lesser extent Corsi (which I don't trust since it favors teams that fire away without getting to dirty areas). Create scoring chances and don't leak high danger chances (i.e. don't screw up).

If they're holding their own 5x5, it's a good environment to bring up prospects when they're ready, and to plug in players like Gauthier next season. If you're holding your own on a regular basis, then younger players have meaningful minutes, not a lot of garbage time.

Next step is the PK, finally the PP, but we know when Michkov comes over, it's going to take a big jump.

 

[Tripod]

If the "rebuild" included:

trading Laughton for a 1st+
trading Seeler for a pick
not signing a 36 year old Dman
not signing a 31 year old RW
not scratching the 2nd best C for 6 straight games

...few would complain. But these moves are because the Emperor Torts commanded them. He asked for a 4th liner, he got 2. He wanted to keep Laughton. Why are we adding a 36 year old LHD when we have Sanheim, York, Zamula and Seeler....with Andrea in the wings. Because Torts wanted another vet.

Speaking of Andrea. See how few have an issue with him being demoted? Because it is clear he can use more AHL time.

Not one vet has been a healthy scratch. Only rookies and Frost who it's clear Torts has an issue with dating back to last year. Even his very good 2nd half of the season, didn't matter. Remember in the offseason during negotiations, one of the beats said Torts was not convinced Frost was a middle 6 C. He was waiting for the slightest hiccup so he could pile on someone he dislikes. Scratch for 1 game, people could brush off as sending a message to one of your kids with upside. Scratch for 6 games in a row, and the message is clear from Torts....I don't want you. So now all we are doing is devaluing the asset if they do indeed trade him. And if he plays, he will be on eggshells knowing this egomaniac controls his life in hockey.

This is a rebuild where not so secretly, Torts and Co want to make the playoffs. And they will keep guys in the hope they push for them. A REAL rebuild would see that there is 1 too many top 9 guys and they would trade Laughton now so the 24 year old with 60+ point upside, can play. Or maybe it looks at the 4th line and sees that not one of them has a point yet and shakes it up. Nah, 4th line is not for offense. Speaking of no offense, Briere acquisitions have played a total of 20 games and are pointless.

The organization continues to get in its own way and and not maximize its possibilities even when the move are obvious. It's why even when the do succeed, it's not due to their own smart decisions....like wanting to trade Sanheim for Krug. Only idiots would see that as a good idea, and both coach and GM were on board and tried to make that happen. And it's why lots expect a future dumb move that will set the team back. They have shown that's more likely than making smart moves that push this team forward.

Edit: oh nice, Frost finally going to play. Odd they are scratching the 24 year old 4th liner while the 31 and 32 year old 4th liners play. "REBUILD"

 

[deadhead]

Nothing they did says they expect to make the playoffs, they didn't sign free agents, they didn't trade for a top 4 veteran D-man, Torts is letting Ersson play through is growing pains (cost them two games already).

Trading Laughton may still happen, he's having a good season and they need room next year for Gauthier at LW/C.

If they weren't offered anything in the first 4-5 rounds for Seeler, who cares. He's a good pairing for Risto on the 3rd pair, and if Attard is ever brought up.

We've seen why they signed Staal, they didn't think their young D-men were ready, and you need 8 D-men b/c injuries are inevitable - now we have Mete and Belpedio on the roster - Staal looks pretty good next to those options. Every rebuilding team has signed these kinds of guys.

Hathaway was probably a mistake, he's not playing as good as advertised so far, but he's still clearly better than Allison, who at 26 is no longer a "prospect." No one claimed Allison at minimum wage, so he has zero trade value. So meh.

Frost got caught in a numbers game, no one expected Brink to win a job or Foerster to steadily improve. Frost started with two bad games, while the other top 9 forwards clearly played better. Shouldn't have gone on for 6 games, but don't want Foerster on the 4th line either, or for that matter, Poehling benched.

Sanheim was about his contract and his past play, not just the bad season, but projecting Sanheim in his 30s off his previous play - an 8 year commitment by the previous GM is one most new GMs would try to get out of in a rebuild (Sanheim will be 30 when Michkov comes over with 5 years left on his deal). Fortunately, he got the wakeup call, a more physical Sanheim projects better as he loses a stride or two in his 30s.

 

[Tripod]

No need to lie, again.

They signed 3 free agents they intended to play. So to say they signed none is a lie. Odd how Staal is not a top 4 dman to you after months of quoting is icetime in Florida last year to show he was.

And again, If the teammis rebuilding, who cares about Staal playing over Mete or Belp because wins don't matter, right? Oh wait, itit'because they thought adding Staal would lead to more wins.

Hathaway is a fine 4th liner. But he wasn't needed for a rebuilding team that has 6 other NHL caliber RWers.

If we did not have archaic thinking, kids CAN play on the 4th line. You just don't surround them with useless slop like Deslauriers.

Sanheim is and was a case study in how dumb this organization is from top to bottom under multiple GM''s and coaches. He has had no help in development from this organization and has succeeded in spite of them.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

3 of 4....with a tough game tomorrow....so could be 4 of 5

The implication was "haha, Torts is underachieving!"

Which is ridiculous, because most preseason predictions had the Flyers as a bottom-five team in the league.

Did something change where they're supposed to be a contender, and a few early seasons losses (mixed in with wins) suddenly threatens their season?

It's just a silly shot at Torts by people who don't like him.

 

[freakydallas13]

The implication was "haha, Torts is underachieving!"

Which is ridiculous, because most preseason predictions had the Flyers as a bottom-five team in the league.

Did something change where they're supposed to be a contender, and a few early seasons losses (mixed in with wins) suddenly threatens their season?

It's just a silly shot at Torts by people who don't like him.

I think most people here had the team finishing ~80 points.

It's also not like the team started hot and then crashed hard the previous 2 seasons or anything.

 

[Curufinwe]

Imagine if they lose Hart for an extended period....

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I think most people here had the team finishing ~80 points.

It's also not like the team started hot and then crashed hard the previous 2 seasons or anything.

They've played 8 games. They are 4-3-1.

It's ridiculous to describe this situation as, "losses are piling up for the great Torts!"

 

[freakydallas13]

They've played 8 games. They are 4-3-1.

It's ridiculous to describe this situation as, "losses are piling up for the great Torts!"

Not really, seeing as they've lost 3 of 4. At least it's not the huge exaggeration you're making it out to be.

 

[deadhead]

No need to lie, again.

They signed 3 free agents they intended to play. So to say they signed none is a lie. Odd how Staal is not a top 4 dman to you after months of quoting is icetime in Florida last year to show he was.

And again, If the teammis rebuilding, who cares about Staal playing over Mete or Belp because wins don't matter, right? Oh wait, itit'because they thought adding Staal would lead to more wins.

Hathaway is a fine 4th liner. But he wasn't needed for a rebuilding team that has 6 other NHL caliber RWers.

If we did not have archaic thinking, kids CAN play on the 4th line. You just don't surround them with useless slop like Deslauriers.

Sanheim is and was a case study in how dumb this organization is from top to bottom under multiple GM''s and coaches. He has had no help in development from this organization and has succeeded in spite of them.

If you're trying to make the playoffs, you don't sign Staal, Hathaway and Poehling, what are they worth in terms of expected wins? 2 points? You sign a top 4 D-man or a 2C.

If you don't want to be forced to rush prospects, it's either Staal or guys you know aren't NHL caliber.

Kids can play on the 4th line, if they're NHL caliber, it's not like Allison didn't get to play 60 games on the 3rd line last season with Hayes as his center (also played with Cates and Frost). No one else at LHV seems close to ready right now.

Sanheim was physically underdeveloped until this offseason, and it hindered him in the D-zone (losing corner battles, couldn't clear the crease, etc.) While he's not exactly the second coming of Pronger, the added strength has made him more effective this season. Was that a development issue or a player maturing and willing to pay the price over the summer?

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's not about wins and losses, they are rebuilding, just not the way some would like them to.

The key to watch are metrics like xGF%, HDCF%, SCF% and to a lesser extent Corsi (which I don't trust since it favors teams that fire away without getting to dirty areas). Create scoring chances and don't leak high danger chances (i.e. don't screw up).

If they're holding their own 5x5, it's a good environment to bring up prospects when they're ready, and to plug in players like Gauthier next season. If you're holding your own on a regular basis, then younger players have meaningful minutes, not a lot of garbage time.

Next step is the PK, finally the PP, but we know when Michkov comes over, it's going to take a big jump.

They aren't rebuilding.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

They've played 8 games. They are 4-3-1.

It's ridiculous to describe this situation as, "losses are piling up for the great Torts!"

Sounds like you're just being defensive of a guy that you wish would call you back.

The fact is the losses are, in fact, piling up on Torts. That's reality and it's factually correct as they've lost 3 of 4 and are likely to lose a few more here.

The guy literally showed us last year that he couldn't handle losses piling up to the point where he just stopped doing his job because "he didn't want to see them and they probably didn't want to see him."

 

[Tripod]

If you're trying to make the playoffs, you don't sign Staal, Hathaway and Poehling, what are they worth in terms of expected wins? 2 points? You sign a top 4 D-man or a 2C.

If you don't want to be forced to rush prospects, it's either Staal or guys you know aren't NHL caliber.

Kids can play on the 4th line, if they're NHL caliber, it's not like Allison didn't get to play 60 games on the 3rd line last season with Hayes as his center (also played with Cates and Frost). No one else at LHV seems close to ready right now.

Sanheim was physically underdeveloped until this offseason, and it hindered him in the D-zone (losing corner battles, couldn't clear the crease, etc.) While he's not exactly the second coming of Pronger, the added strength has made him more effective this season. Was that a development issue or a player maturing and willing to pay the price over the summer?

Lying again. You need to stop.

Hathaway and Poehling are gone 4th liners. Ideally, you only have 1 on your 4th line. But Torts gave the directive of what he wanted, Briere delivered. Lots of contenders sign 4th liners. Staal, you talked for months about his icetime must mean something good. After all, why would Florida play him so much, right?

And it's not Staal or guys not ready. It is today because that's what Torts and Briere wanted. We had 3 LHD, 1 LHD who 100% should make it in Z, and 1 LHD prospect in Andrea. Then had 2 RHD. We CHOSE to add a LHD in Staal. Now we live with it.

So Allison can play 60 games in the 3rd line, but not on the 4th line? Oh right, roles.

You are right, it's all on Sanheim and ALL his success is due to gaining weight. The Flyers way.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If you're trying to make the playoffs, you don't sign Staal, Hathaway and Poehling, what are they worth in terms of expected wins? 2 points? You sign a top 4 D-man or a 2C.

If you don't want to be forced to rush prospects, it's either Staal or guys you know aren't NHL caliber.

Kids can play on the 4th line, if they're NHL caliber, it's not like Allison didn't get to play 60 games on the 3rd line last season with Hayes as his center (also played with Cates and Frost). No one else at LHV seems close to ready right now.

Sanheim was physically underdeveloped until this offseason, and it hindered him in the D-zone (losing corner battles, couldn't clear the crease, etc.) While he's not exactly the second coming of Pronger, the added strength has made him more effective this season. Was that a development issue or a player maturing and willing to pay the price over the summer?

The hell??

Signing Hathaway and Staal is the definition of trying to win now. The opposite of rebuilding.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Seriously after weeks of posting rosters for this year flooded with youth insisting that's how it would be because they're rebuilding, now doing the opposite is actually rebuilding?

 

[deadhead]

The silly takes around here take the cake.

Chicago traded for Hall (31) and Foligno (36), signed Murphy (30), traded 7th rd pick for Perry (38), kept Tinordi (31) around, guess they're trying to make the playoffs?

Arizona signed Bjugstad (31) to a two year deal, Kerfoot (29) two years, Dumba (29), Sanford (29), Stecher (29), for their playoff drive.

And so on, the only team that didn't bother to sign any older FA scrubs was San Jose, because they had picked up a bunch in salary dump deals, They did sign Carpenter (33), and added Granlund (31), Rutta (33), Hoffman (34).

 

[Magua]

Show me the young 50 point players Chicago or Arizona are healthy scratching for multiple weeks. Teams do need to fill out rosters! Even rebuilding teams have to sign people to reach cap floors and roster requirements.

Meanwhile, the Flyers have too many players to play, and we see who's getting the short end of the stick. A lot of it is because they refused to trade certain players, like Laughton, or refuse to sit Deslauriers. The Flyers whole roster is more advanced than Chicago/Arizona. They have little in common (of their own doing) with their timelines.

 

[deadhead]

Show me the young 50 point players Chicago or Arizona are healthy scratching for multiple weeks. Teams do need to fill out rosters! Even rebuilding teams have to sign people to reach cap floors and roster requirements.

Meanwhile, the Flyers have too many players to play, and we see who's getting the short end of the stick. A lot of it is because they refused to trade certain players, like Laughton, or refuse to sit Deslauriers. The Flyers whole roster is more advanced than Chicago/Arizona. They have little in common (of their own doing) with their timelines.

Wait, I thought the Flyers were 5-7 years away? Now they have a more advanced timeline?
Try to get your script straight!

Right now they've have an unbalanced roster, 6 RWs, 5 centers, 2 true LWs.
10 players with legitimate argument to play in the top 9.
Only Poehling is a FA next year, and Gauthier is pretty much guaranteed a top 9 spot.

So things will change during the season and next summer.
Deslauriers will no longer have a NMC. Atkinson and Hathaway one year left.

 

[flyerslducks]

The silly takes around here take the cake.

Chicago traded for Hall (31) and Foligno (36), signed Murphy (30), traded 7th rd pick for Perry (38), kept Tinordi (31) around, guess they're trying to make the playoffs?

Arizona signed Bjugstad (31) to a two year deal, Kerfoot (29) two years, Dumba (29), Sanford (29), Stecher (29), for their playoff drive.

And so on, the only team that didn't bother to sign any older FA scrubs was San Jose, because they had picked up a bunch in salary dump deals, They did sign Carpenter (33), and added Granlund (31), Rutta (33), Hoffman (34).

bruh almost all of the Chicago signings this year were 1 year deals. Flyers, signed 4th line vets to multi year deals. This is not a good ex to prove your point

 

[deadhead]

bruh almost all of the Chicago signings this year were 1 year deals. Flyers, signed 4th line vets to multi year deals. This is not a good ex to prove your point

Hathaway is 2yrs, Poehling 1yr, Staal 1yr.
Walker 1yr (trade), Peterson 2yr (salary dump)

Briere inherited Deslauriers.

 

[Tripod]

Wait, I thought the Flyers were 5-7 years away? Now they have a more advanced timeline?
Try to get your script straight!

Right now they've have an unbalanced roster, 6 RWs, 5 centers, 2 true LWs.
10 players with legitimate argument to play in the top 9.
Only Poehling is a FA next year, and Gauthier is pretty much guaranteed a top 9 spot.

So things will change during the season and next summer.
Deslauriers will no longer have a NMC. Atkinson and Hathaway one year left.

6 RWers?

Seems stupid to sign a 31 year old UFA RWer to multiple years, right? Especially one worse than all 5 of them.