Post-Game Talk: #71| Hurricanes 3 at FLYERS 4 (OT) | Sun., March 19, 2017

[Beef Invictus]

The "they're lazy" argument is a terribly lazy argument.

 

[Rebels57]

If you have to add an allstar goalie and 2 or 3 top defensemen to make this a good team, then the core just isn't that good - what defines top players is their ability to carry mediocre teammates - because under the cap no team can be composed of all top players.

It doesn't mean the core players are bad players, it just means they're not elite players, and that shuffling players through trades for a better fit shouldn't be unthinkable. For Hextall, it comes down to whom he thinks should be on the team 2-3 years from now, not what they did 2-3 years ago.

Probably your most asinine comment yet.

You can't be a great team without great goaltending and great defense.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The core can also be good but lacking pieces. It's exceptionally poorly thought out.


Deadhead, are you just a contrarian seeking to mindlessly argue?

 

[kudymen]

Deadhead, are you just a contrarian seeking to mindlessly argue?

Considering this is the only question towards which he never brought a contrarian response, I guess it's highly probable

 

[Flyerfan4life]

sometimes i wonder what some of the posters here even think a coachs job is...

the way some will excuse Haks like what he does or does not do make no difference to the end product... if that were the case why have a coach at all..

at the end of the day the Coach is directly responsible for the end product... if the team fails, its his head on the block... as it has always been as it will always be..

end of story...

there is no excuse for the teams record since Haks coming on board that he can shy away from...

this team is actualy trending the wrong direction under Haks watch....

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

The biggest tell of how Hak is not ready for the NHL is how he handles road games this season. He has no idea how do to do proper line matchups or how to have proper changes on the fly when something doesn't go exactly right. He is over his head.

 

[deadhead]

The core can also be good but lacking pieces. It's exceptionally poorly thought out.


Deadhead, are you just a contrarian seeking to mindlessly argue?

No. What I'm simply pointing out is the core isn't good enough, when you have a core of great players, you can add a couple pieces and become a cup contender, when you have a core of good players, they are merely part of a team that has to be built up from top to bottom.

We don't have a McDavid or Crosby or . . . type of players right now.
In that case, there is no reason to hold onto any specific core player as they age, because the rebuilding process is going to take 2-3 years, and none of these players will be a key to future success. So Hextall shouldn't be reluctant to move any of them, because they're not going to be the foundation to the team's future success (the young defensemen and players like Konency, Rubtsov, etc. will be the foundation).

It's not that they won't be able to contribute, but contribute, not lead, is the right term. So decisions this offseason shouldn't be focused on being competitive in 2017-18, but 2-3 years down the road when the young players arrive and the talent level reaches critical mass.

 

[Striiker]

So, by this mindlblowingly stupid logic, only the Penguins forward core is good enough because they're the only one that doesn't need good defense and goaltending to win a cup.

Blackhawks forward core? Not good enough.
Kings forward core? Not good enough.
Bruins forward core? Not good enough.
Any cup winner with good goaltending and defense? Not good enough.

I've never seen a post so poorly thought out.

 

[deadhead]

Are you saying our core is as good as the Blackhawks?

All I'm saying is our core is expendable because they're not good enough to win if we add a couple young defensemen next year. So you have to look at the value of what you can get in a trade now v the value of our core players 2-3 years from now. Because it's going to take 2-3 years to build that great defense and find a franchise goalie (i.e. decide which young goalie is the horse you want to ride).

 

[gto64dr]

Anyone thinking the team is in tank mode for a high draft pick is dreaming. We won't get a great player to save us in this draft. What we really need is to clear the house of these coaches. It's obvious that Hak is in way over his head, Lappy was a player who gave everything he had but is not really getting it done as a coach. We don't even want to get into the offense, it's putrid, even strength and power play. Then let's clear out the dead wood beginning with Voracek, Manning, Mason, Amac, etc.
A real nhl coach, we missed out on Torts, and bring up some of our potential because this draft will not bring us any NHL ready players.

 

[Hiesenberg]

You make stupid comments, you sleep in the bed you make dumbass.

 

[Striiker]

Are you saying our core is as good as the Blackhawks?

All I'm saying is our core is expendable because they're not good enough to win if we add a couple young defensemen next year. So you have to look at the value of what you can get in a trade now v the value of our core players 2-3 years from now. Because it's going to take 2-3 years to build that great defense and find a franchise goalie (i.e. decide which young goalie is the horse you want to ride).

Obviously not, that's not what I said at all.

The core not being good enough to win in spite of bad defense/goaltending doesn't mean they're expendable at all. If you're waiting to find a core that is able to win with bad defense and goaltending then you're never going to find them, unless you get insanely lucky like the Penguins.

There isn't another team in the league, including the Blackhawks, that has a forward core that could have won a cup with the defense and goaltending we've had since our current core was put together.

 

[Rebels57]

The biggest tell of how Hak is not ready for the NHL is how he handles road games this season. He has no idea how do to do proper line matchups or how to have proper changes on the fly when something doesn't go exactly right. He is over his head.

I was talking to a coach on Twitter about Hakstol earlier today. He noticed something against Columbus that was alarming. When they got the lead on us and switched to a 1-2-2 system, Hakstol didn't make a single adjustment to counter it. As a result, we were completely neutralized. He then watched New Jersey, who has a brutal roster and average coach, in the same situation. What did Hynes do? Completely changed their attack as soon as Torts had Columbus play a 1-2-2 system.

He can't make the best lineup.
He can't line-match.
He can't adjust his system.
He can't motivate.
=
He can't coach.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You make stupid comments, you sleep in the bed you make dumbass.

Oh go **** yourself with a hot curling iron Sam. Go poison a different fanbase with your idiocy. You aren't the victim you think you are.

He's absolutely hoping fans will turn on Manning and Weise here. Why else point it out? It's what he does.

"Waaahhhh I slandered and insulted players and now they're meanies to me!" Philly Fans: "Those entitled jackasses! We hate them now!"

How does anybody still fall for this.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No. What I'm simply pointing out is the core isn't good enough, when you have a core of great players, you can add a couple pieces and become a cup contender, when you have a core of good players, they are merely part of a team that has to be built up from top to bottom.

We don't have a McDavid or Crosby or . . . type of players right now.
In that case, there is no reason to hold onto any specific core player as they age, because the rebuilding process is going to take 2-3 years, and none of these players will be a key to future success. So Hextall shouldn't be reluctant to move any of them, because they're not going to be the foundation to the team's future success (the young defensemen and players like Konency, Rubtsov, etc. will be the foundation).

It's not that they won't be able to contribute, but contribute, not lead, is the right term. So decisions this offseason shouldn't be focused on being competitive in 2017-18, but 2-3 years down the road when the young players arrive and the talent level reaches critical mass.

Neither does nearly every other team in the NHL.


And considering how your body of work routinely tends to conflict with itself and you have by now identified every single aspect and player as something that needs to be changed or traded, it's pretty clear you're just arguing for the sake of arguing without any real actual thought or reasoning behind it.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

You make stupid comments, you sleep in the bed you make dumbass.

Guaranteed that "The Broad Street Bull" doesn't even know Manning didn't play last night.

 

[BillDineen]

I am still laughing at his "protect Brennan in the ED" idiocy.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Carchidi has easily overtaken Timmeh as outright worst media member. This season Timmeh appears to be putting in actual effort and conducting some analysis. Sam now stands alone at the pinnacle of stupidity and incompetence.

 

[kudymen]

So, by this mindlblowingly stupid logic, only the Penguins forward core is good enough because they're the only one that doesn't need good defense and goaltending to win a cup.

Blackhawks forward core? Not good enough.
Kings forward core? Not good enough.
Bruins forward core? Not good enough.
Any cup winner with good goaltending and defense? Not good enough.

I've never seen a post so poorly thought out.

Well. But how many blocked shots do their first line forwards have? Ha?!

 

[deadhead]

Neither does nearly every other team in the NHL.


And considering how your body of work routinely tends to conflict with itself and you have by now identified every single aspect and player as something that needs to be changed or traded, it's pretty clear you're just arguing for the sake of arguing without any real actual thought or reasoning behind it.

Three years ago G & V were close to that level, now they're approaching 30 . . .

"Those were the days my friends . . . "

It's a matter of timing, if Mason was a top 5 goalie signed long-term, and Laughton had become the reliable third center, and Streit didn't get hurt and MDZ didn't go south . . . then we could work the kids in and make the playoffs every year and have a shot of going deep into the playoffs.

But the fact is this is a 85 point team without a top goalie, and by the time they're competitive in 2 years G will be 31 & V will be 29. Note we're going to have the same record as 2012-13 and 2014-15. Three coaches, same result. Time to shake things up.

Given that G will probably rebound, and his trade value is below his probable play, at this point I think Voracek is my candidate to trade. His points and skill will make him a valuable trade asset to any GM willing to ignore the steady decline in his Corsi%rel, +/- and E +/- and takeaway/giveaway ratio the last three years.

Plus, if I have to watch Voracek cycle one more time through the O-zone for 20 seconds and then have the puck stripped I'm gonna scream. He has 21 takeaways and 49 giveaways so far this season, which is horrible for a forward.