Post-Game Talk: #71: FLYERS 6 at Maple Leafs 7, Friday, Mar. 15, 2019, 7:00 p.m. ET

[Ruck Over]

Holmgren...

No other reason

?

Hextall was the GM for the majority of this time frame.

It seems weird to see it in print, but that loss to the Rangers, 13-14, that's the last time I felt the team was actually competitive. Krieder ran Mason, and he missed the beginning of the series. That was a broken, hobbled, Ray Emery. Had Mason been in net, maybe we nab one of those other games and actually win that series. Probably wouldn't have progressed further, but f*** it, that was a winnable series. Unlike the 6 game series against the Pens and Caps, whom totally slept walk through games because it was lol-2-ez, so 6 games was actually 5, probably could've been 4 game sweeps (maybe that would've gotten Hak fired faster?) /fin

 

[Normand Lacombe]

I know the owners love the revenues Bettman has produced, especially the new franchise fees that represent a lot of cash with virtually no expense.

But someday, an owner who actually respects the game, will ask why in god's name Gary schedules a crucial game where one team plays the Stanley Cup champs the night before and has to travel for a back-to-back, while the other team has rested at home.

The NHL schedule is full of this nonsense. It tips the compete balance of too many games.

Someday, an owner who actually respects the game, and cares about fair, competitive balance will tell Gary that, while he's good at generating revenue, when it comes to protecting the integrity of the game, he's full of it.

Making money for owners and fawning over Crosby are the only things Bettman is good at. Bettman has screwed up this league for the past 25 years. He has always wanted the NHL to resemble the NBA, with similar scheduling and division names. I am convinced Bettman hates hockey.

 

[Garbage Goal]

I don't think people realize what an extraordinary handicap our coaching situation has been on this team. The record they've accumulated in the last 2-3 months is a real accomplishment.

We're in great shape moving forward. That's what matters. IDGAF about sneaking into the playoffs just to see Jon Cooper ***** slap Gordo. The players that matter have performed admirably.

This forum can be a real hot take **** show sometimes.

Based on the patterns of failure and ineptitude leading to net mediocrity every year for many years now, betting on youth we’ve yet to see handle leadership roles, coaching looking as awful as it always is, Homer and Fletcher in charge, an aging veteran core, and potentially the riskiest goalie tandem possible for next season I’m not sure what could possibly make you certain we’re in a great shape moving forward.

Possibly, but the problems that hurt us every year are still here and we haven’t been given any real reason to believe they’re going away. So I can see thinking we might be in great shape moving forward, but being confident of it feels kind of fanboyish to me. Especially with the off-season, draft, and training camp all to transpire before next season.

 

[NicolasAubeKubel]

Based on the patterns of failure and ineptitude leading to net mediocrity every year for many years now, betting on youth we’ve yet to see handle leadership roles, coaching looking as awful as it always is, Homer and Fletcher in charge, an aging veteran core, and potentially the riskiest goalie tandem possible for next season I’m not sure what could possibly make you certain we’re in a great shape moving forward.

Possibly, but the problems that hurt us every year are still here and we haven’t been given any real reason to believe they’re going away. So I can see thinking we might be in great shape moving forward, but being confident of it feels kind of fanboyish to me. Especially with the off-season, draft, and training camp all to transpire before next season.

Sanheim, Patrick, Konecny, Hart, Provorov, Gostisbehere, Myers, Farabee, Lindblom, Frost, Hart

 

[Stizzle]

Based on the patterns of failure and ineptitude leading to net mediocrity every year for many years now, betting on youth we’ve yet to see handle leadership roles, coaching looking as awful as it always is, Homer and Fletcher in charge, an aging veteran core, and potentially the riskiest goalie tandem possible for next season I’m not sure what could possibly make you certain we’re in a great shape moving forward.

Possibly, but the problems that hurt us every year are still here and we haven’t been given any real reason to believe they’re going away. So I can see thinking we might be in great shape moving forward, but being confident of it feels kind of fanboyish to me. Especially with the off-season, draft, and training camp all to transpire before next season.

You can add the word "potentially" before the statement made of "in great shape" if it makes you feel better. Obviously nothing is certain and that should just be understood. A lot of things should just be implied, or else we'd all end up writing essays on here.

With the word 'potential' highlighted. Because, moving forward, this team has more of it than I've seen in my life. The point is, there isn't many franchises in the league set up better for a sustainable run moving forward.

The problems you point out are pretty much just fairly standard and should be relatively easy for competent management to address. Small potatoes compared to most teams issues. If Chuck & company screw it up, that's on them.

 

[dingbathero]

Whoa. Missed this one. Wild west style.

Can't be playing like that.

 

[Roy Batty]

we need a goalie

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

I can't believe I missed this 7-6 game.

Just finished the highlights, was 8 on the ice for a lot of goals against or is it just me?

WTF were those B2B Muzzin goals? Awful.

Atta boy JVR! Love having him again. Nobody is better with deflections/garbage goals. Guaranteed 30-35 a year.

PLEASE fire Gordo into the sun after this season.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

First 3 penalties against the Flyers were also atrocious. Team like the Leafs shouldn't need the help against a non playoff team playing a back to back!!!!!! Brutal

Didn’t watch the game,but it sounds like the Flyers were chasing the puck allnight long. I agree NHL officiating isn’t good. But if you don’t have the puck chances are you will get penalties called against you

 

[Bruckuss]

I think that's a wrap, day late and a buck short, changes needed, life goes on

 

[deadhead]

Let's see, road game to Toronto after emotional home game against Caps, team gets outskated but hangs in there despite goalie giving up 3 questionable goals. THE SKY IS FALLING. Of course Toronto outskated us. They also are a bad defensive team.

The last two games simply confirms that the team is still 2 years away, which is what I've been saying for a year.

Funny how people want to blame the players with the least PT, Hagg, Amac, Varone, Knight. They don't matter. They be gone.
Problem is a lot of the key players were outplayed when it counted, because they're asked to do too much.

Provorov - Sanheim isn't a 1st pair yet, Sanheim was totally exposed these two games in his D-zone, and Provorov went back into his funk.
Laughton, Raffl are 4th line wingers asked to play in the top 9.
TK needs tough love, other than skate fast and shoot, he's a liability, and too often he passes when he should shoot.
Patrick is oh so close to turning the corner, but he's not finishing those plays consistently.

Gudas needs to be paired with a faster puck mover, been saying that since he was paired with Hagg, worked against a slower Caps team, were terribly exposed by Toronto's speed. They need a real veteran RHD who can be a stabilizing force.

Hextall did draft speed, Frost, O'Brien, Ratcliffe moves well for a big man, Rubtsov, Kase, etc. - but only so many speedsters who can play per draft. If Toronto's speed was so unstoppable, how come they've had two straight PO 1st rd exits (and maybe a 3rd this year)? Notice the Caps and Bruins beat them in the playoffs - and neither team is composed of speed demons.

Flyers need better coaching than Gordon, they need to add a couple players, but they're on the right track.
I wouldn't read a lot into this game, this streak was unsustainable, it was built on hot goaltending, the goalies cooled off.
Right now this is a 95-100 point team with average goaltending, with Frost, a couple good moves and Hart playing above average, a 100+ team next year. But until the young defensemen learn to play in their D-zone, they're not a serious playoff contender.

The problem isn't high IQ players - problem is we don't have enough of them yet.

 

[Rebels57]

Cant help but wonder what happens if Gordon does the smart thing and starts Hart vs Ottawa, Elliott vs Washington, and back to Hart vs Toronto.

Gordons handling of the goaltending has been as bad as any coach I can remember.

 

[deadhead]

Hart hasn't been playing that well, you grasping at straws.
When you have to depend on your goalie to save you bacon time and again, you're not a good team.

 

[NYCFlyer]

Cant help but wonder what happens if Gordon does the smart thing and starts Hart vs Ottawa, Elliott vs Washington, and back to Hart vs Toronto.

Gordons handling of the goaltending has been as bad as any coach I can remember.

Thats one short memory. Hakstol was waaaay worse. Ran goalies into the ground then wouldn't play them for weeks. He was the worst coach at handling goalies. Gordon is merely questionable.

 

[dragonoffrost]

?

Hextall was the GM for the majority of this time frame.

It seems weird to see it in print, but that loss to the Rangers, 13-14, that's the last time I felt the team was actually competitive. Krieder ran Mason, and he missed the beginning of the series. That was a broken, hobbled, Ray Emery. Had Mason been in net, maybe we nab one of those other games and actually win that series. Probably wouldn't have progressed further, but **** it, that was a winnable series. Unlike the 6 game series against the Pens and Caps, whom totally slept walk through games because it was lol-2-ez, so 6 games was actually 5, probably could've been 4 game sweeps (maybe that would've gotten Hak fired faster?) /fin

Holmgren still has influence. He's the keeper of the Flyer way. Until he's gone we'll get this got to play this style bull shit.

 

[Tripod]

Cant help but wonder what happens if Gordon does the smart thing and starts Hart vs Ottawa, Elliott vs Washington, and back to Hart vs Toronto.

Gordons handling of the goaltending has been as bad as any coach I can remember.

Hart has played 1 good game out of his last 6. So maybe in your scenario, we loose all 3 games.

But now with the season all but over, Hart should get the most starts and Morin needs to play. Get them minutes.

 

[deadhead]

We're not going to be Toronto, nor do we want to be, let them win a playoff series first.
We're not going to be TB, but who is?
We certainly could be Vegas, or Winnipeg, or the Caps.

We have one of the most athletic groups of D-men in the league, we're going to have a nice forward group once a little shuffling is done and Frost, Farabee and Ratcliffe arrive. We don't have to be the fastest team, or play an offensive only "balls to the wall" style. We have plenty of firepower and more on the way.

What the Flyers need is improved depth, better balance and experience.
And a real NHL coach.

 

[baudib1]

Stop thinking about the expansion draft. We're going to lose a good player and we will have to give up a first to make sure we don't lose an even better player. There's no way around it.

 

[deadhead]

Not going to lose sleep over the ED, if we lose Ghost, JVR, Voracek or TK, we'll have Hogberg, Farabee, Ratcliffe, O'Brien, et al to replace them.
Remember, JVR and Voracek at that point will be 32 in 2021-22 with 2/3 years left on their deals.

 

[baudib1]

Oh my God of all the games to talk about Ghost's giveaways.. ..

Ghost has been the best player on the team the past two nights.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Let's see, road game to Toronto after emotional home game against Caps, team gets outskated but hangs in there despite goalie giving up 3 questionable goals. THE SKY IS FALLING. Of course Toronto outskated us. They also are a bad defensive team.

The last two games simply confirms that the team is still 2 years away, which is what I've been saying for a year.

Funny how people want to blame the players with the least PT, Hagg, Amac, Varone, Knight. They don't matter. They be gone.
Problem is a lot of the key players were outplayed when it counted, because they're asked to do too much.

Provorov - Sanheim isn't a 1st pair yet, Sanheim was totally exposed these two games in his D-zone, and Provorov went back into his funk.
Laughton, Raffl are 4th line wingers asked to play in the top 9.
TK needs tough love, other than skate fast and shoot, he's a liability, and too often he passes when he should shoot.
Patrick is oh so close to turning the corner, but he's not finishing those plays consistently.

Gudas needs to be paired with a faster puck mover, been saying that since he was paired with Hagg, worked against a slower Caps team, were terribly exposed by Toronto's speed. They need a real veteran RHD who can be a stabilizing force.

Hextall did draft speed, Frost, O'Brien, Ratcliffe moves well for a big man, Rubtsov, Kase, etc. - but only so many speedsters who can play per draft. If Toronto's speed was so unstoppable, how come they've had two straight PO 1st rd exits (and maybe a 3rd this year)? Notice the Caps and Bruins beat them in the playoffs - and neither team is composed of speed demons.

Flyers need better coaching than Gordon, they need to add a couple players, but they're on the right track.
I wouldn't read a lot into this game, this streak was unsustainable, it was built on hot goaltending, the goalies cooled off.
Right now this is a 95-100 point team with average goaltending, with Frost, a couple good moves and Hart playing above average, a 100+ team next year. But until the young defensemen learn to play in their D-zone, they're not a serious playoff contender.

The problem isn't high IQ players - problem is we don't have enough of them yet.

Now coaching is a concern...

 

[Deadpool8812]

Watching Hagg getting sent out there regularly seriously makes me ill. I think I hate him more than Manning. Manning at least knew how to play defense, albeit not very well, but Hagg looks like he has no idea what he's doing half of the time. Just look at how he defended that 2nd goal. While Gudas is attempting to defend Marner, Hagg is tracking Hyman (good) but as they get closer to the net, Hagg decides to leave Hyman and stand off the the front side of the crease in no mans land (bad). As the pass is made, Hagg literally does nothing but go down and attempt to take a pass away, because he isn't even facing the puck carrier and has no idea where the pass is going (bad). But alas! It goes to the guy he was originally covering, who is now wide open for a empty net goal.

 

[Rebels57]

Hart has played 1 good game out of his last 6. So maybe in your scenario, we loose all 3 games.

But now with the season all but over, Hart should get the most starts and Morin needs to play. Get them minutes.

Hart >>>>> Elliott

Don't care what the numbers say the last 6 games.

Ottawa would have been a perfect tune up game for him. Elliott had to make about 2 difficult saves in that game and they were both shot right into him.

Then he would have been ready to go against Toronto and probably stop the beach balls that were getting past Elliott.

Last night should have been Elliotts last start as a Flyer. Any more games given to him is a joke.

 

[Rebels57]

Just rewatched Goals 3 and 4 last night.

Probably the 2 worst goals allowed by a Flyer goalie this season.

Legitimately wouldnt get past 99% of mens league goalies.

Leans shortside on Goal 3 leaving entire glove side corner open. If hes just square it hits his shoulder.

Square and at top of crease but simply too slow to react on a routine shot.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Elliot looked like a seive. I get that he's overall played decently, but he absolutely has a penchant for soft goals

It's nuts that Hagg continues to be used especially when you are going to be playing teams like Washington and Toronto that can skate

Also this 7D thing needs to end. It serves no purpose