Recalled/Assigned: 7 Players Assigned, 3 Released (Ferraro, Callahan Waived, Post 41)

newfy

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Jul 28, 2010
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What are some examples of guys who are 13th and 14th forwards that are much better than Joker?

You don't want guys with a bunch of talent and upside as your 13tj and 14th forwards. You want those guys playing every night, whether its NHL or AHL. 13th and 14th forwards are reserved for guys who don't have much upside, but can't step in and hold their own if someone goes down in the bottom half of the lineup.

I would rather have a guy like Callahan that actually does something and has a role out there that can be inserted for certain games. Use Callahan with Glendening against a team like Boston to make them lose their cool, which he did twice in preseason.

Instead you put Andersson in who does nothing of note. He can PK, but hes extremely mediocre about it and really only does it because if Babs didnt have him doing that he would have literally no use to the team
 

Frk It

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Jul 27, 2010
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I would rather have a guy like Callahan that actually does something and has a role out there that can be inserted for certain games. Use Callahan with Glendening against a team like Boston to make them lose their cool, which he did twice in preseason.

Instead you put Andersson in who does nothing of note. He can PK, but hes extremely mediocre about it and really only does it because if Babs didnt have him doing that he would have literally no use to the team

I would be fine with Callahan as the extra skater, but the difference is pretty negligible for me. I think Callahan could become a player like Derek Dorsett, though maybe could benefit from clearing waivers and playing more with GR. It seems Blashill has done a great job with him so far, so maybe he could take him farther still.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

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Aug 11, 2009
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You can believe what you want to, but Tokarski did have to pass through waivers, it was a different situation.

On a day where it looks like the Wings have found a way to keep Jurco on the roster and are trying pretty hard to keep Ouellet up, I am not sure they should be run through the fire the same way.

Curious if maybe Big E isn't ready to go though in terms of Ouellet might have that as an option. Either way it looks like two guys with AHL options are being thrust into the team picture.

I also think Cleary is getting put out to pasture. They are figuring out a way to do it, but when HSJ is even in the camp of he looks unlikely to play that does say a lot.

I am not sure keeping jurco up rather then sending him down deserves a pat on a back, as every team league wide would make the same decision

we really shouldnt have to "find a way" to keep a player up who is among the top 12 NHL forwards we have simply because of his waiver position, it should be automatic simply because he is better

I understand Tokarski would have to pass thru waivers, why didnt the Habs just do that then? I look at all their moves this summer and to me they all say the same thing(incdl this one), that is they were looking to free up roster spots for better and younger players even at the expense of veterans and long(er) term habs.
 

Dotter

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I would be fine with Callahan as the extra skater, but the difference is pretty negligible for me. I think Callahan could become a player like Derek Dorsett, though maybe could benefit from clearing waivers and playing more with GR. It seems Blashill has done a great job with him so far, so maybe he could take him farther still.

That's my feeling on the matter as well. Let 'em get some competitive minutes in the AHL and see what kind of untapped potential Blashill can squeeze out of him. It's in the best interest for both his career and the DRWs if he finds it.

Andersson will be a fine 13th/14th forward on the team.
 

Winger98

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I am not sure keeping jurco up rather then sending him down deserves a pat on a back, as every team league wide would make the same decision

we really shouldnt have to "find a way" to keep a player up who is among the top 12 NHL forwards we have simply because of his waiver position, it should be automatic simply because he is better

I understand Tokarski would have to pass thru waivers, why didnt the Habs just do that then? I look at all their moves this summer and to me they all say the same thing(incdl this one), that is they were looking to free up roster spots for better and younger players even at the expense of veterans and long(er) term habs.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious exception, but if Jurco's spot is to be plunked on the fourth line next to Miller and Andersson, I'd rather have him in GR getting top line minutes and learning to be a scorer rather than learning to grind. By and large I agree with keeping the 12 best guys, but I think there are times it is better for a guy to go down and play a bigger part in a lesser league.
 

ricky0034

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Jun 8, 2010
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Maybe I'm stating the obvious exception, but if Jurco's spot is to be plunked on the fourth line next to Miller and Andersson, I'd rather have him in GR getting top line minutes and learning to be a scorer rather than learning to grind. By and large I agree with keeping the 12 best guys, but I think there are times it is better for a guy to go down and play a bigger part in a lesser league.

well with Datsyuk injured and Alfredsson not back if Jurco was on the 4th line with Miller and Andersson the obvious question would be why is Glendening or Cleary playing above him in the lineup?

there's just no defending that no matter how you look at it

and that's ignoring Abdelkader and Helm
 

Crymson

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Halfway through last season, Nestrasil was a nobody---a failed prospect. He worked hard, and now he has leapfrogged both Ferraro and Callahan. Well done, kid.

I hope he makes the final team.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious exception, but if Jurco's spot is to be plunked on the fourth line next to Miller and Andersson, I'd rather have him in GR getting top line minutes and learning to be a scorer rather than learning to grind. By and large I agree with keeping the 12 best guys, but I think there are times it is better for a guy to go down and play a bigger part in a lesser league.

Unless Jurco is playing putrid hockey, this won't happen. Even then, he'd be sent down to Grand Rapids instead.
 

theYman

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Feb 28, 2008
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That's my feeling on the matter as well. Let 'em get some competitive minutes in the AHL and see what kind of untapped potential Blashill can squeeze out of him. It's in the best interest for both his career and the DRWs if he finds it.

Andersson will be a fine 13th/14th forward on the team.

So why can't we do that with Callahan? Callahan>Andersson

 

DatsyukToZetterberg

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So why can't we do that with Callahan? Callahan>Andersson



Because Anderson has more worth to a team than Callahan. If we were to trade Anderson we'd be able to get a mate round pick while Callahan will likely pass through the waivers.

While Anderson isn't great he's still a good #4C. He's good defensively, isn't a complete black hole offensively, and he's one if our teams better faceoff men. To me I'd much rather have Andersson in the 4th line role than someone like Glendening or Callahan.
 

jaster

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Glendening is a gamer. Andersson is a plug. Callahan is an AHLer.

Callahan supposedly had some Conn Smythe-worthy game that wasn't televised, but I'm dubious, because in the games I saw him in he was not good at all. I never saw him as a type who's tools would translate to the NHL, and he's yet to prove me wrong (to be clear, I hope he does). He just doesn't seem to be able to see the game at NHL-level speed.

Andersson is a safe, solid reserve/4th-liner type. A defensive center who is pretty polished at the NHL level at this point, given his role, and typically makes the smart play. There's no single part of his game that stands out, but he's dependable. An ideal depth forward.

Glendening is sheer drive, coupled with great defensive instincts and an ability to agitate and draw penalties. How his offense develops is a ? (I think it'll easily get to a point that is acceptable for a 4th-liner, ala Miller), but the other parts of his game are already NHL-level-acceptable or better. He's an x-factor who should be a 4th-line mainstay (again, assuming his offense sees a little boost).
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

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Glendening is a gamer. Andersson is a plug. Callahan is an AHLer.

Callahan supposedly had some Conn Smythe-worthy game that wasn't televised, but I'm dubious, because in the games I saw him in he was not good at all. I never saw him as a type who's tools would translate to the NHL, and he's yet to prove me wrong (to be clear, I hope he does). He just doesn't seem to be able to see the game at NHL-level speed.

Andersson is a safe, solid reserve/4th-liner type. A defensive center who is pretty polished at the NHL level at this point, given his role, and typically makes the smart play. There's no single part of his game that stands out, but he's dependable. An ideal depth forward.

Glendening is sheer drive, coupled with great defensive instincts and an ability to agitate and draw penalties. How his offense develops is a ? (I think it'll easily get to a point that is acceptable for a 4th-liner, ala Miller), but the other parts of his game are already NHL-level-acceptable or better. He's an x-factor who should be a 4th-line mainstay (again, assuming his offense sees a little boost).

Andersson is better than either of those players. I understand Glendening and Callahan play with a physical edge, but they're both not very good. I mean, maybe Callahan is good, we never really gave him much of a look at the NHL level, but I assure you that Andersson is better than both them. That said, Andersson is BARELY an NHLer.
 

Crymson

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So why can't we do that with Callahan? Callahan>Andersson

Given that Callahan has proven precisely dick at the NHL level, whereas Andersson has established himself as a passable defensive center and decent penalty killer, I do not see the merit in your claim.
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

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Anderson is not better than Glendenning

The numbers beg to differ. He's a better PKer, he drives possession better, he has better fenwick corsi numbers, and wins more faceoffs.

While Andersson is barely an NHLer, Glendening is not an NHLer at all. Andersson can actually carry the puck, Glendening is forced to always chase and forecheck it. Which isn't good. It's probably why people "think" he's better, because he's always moving and checking. Doesn't mean he's better though.
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

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I thought Glendening was surprisingly solid this preseason. I think he's worked himself into a solid 4th liner. If he can turn his PKing into a strength, he might be worth holding onto long term. Kind of like a more versatile Drew Miller.

Yeah, that's certainly possible. He's young enough, could develop into a solid 4th liner. However, Glendening of 2013-2014 was not particularly good.
 

Mijatovic

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Jan 23, 2014
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The numbers beg to differ. He's a better PKer, he drives possession better, he has better fenwick corsi numbers, and wins more faceoffs.

While Andersson is barely an NHLer, Glendening is not an NHLer at all. Andersson can actually carry the puck, Glendening is forced to always chase and forecheck it. Which isn't good. It's probably why people "think" he's better, because he's always moving and checking. Doesn't mean he's better though.

Glendening has worse numbers because he spent the better part of half of last season playing against the number #1 lines for other teams. Andersson is slow on the PK, and we were significantly worse when he was playing.

Where was Andersson? Riding the pine. He's solid enough to centre a mediocre 3rd scoring line. I really wouldnt trust him in 4th line PK duties.
 

theYman

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Andersson is better than either of those players. I understand Glendening and Callahan play with a physical edge, but they're both not very good. I mean, maybe Callahan is good, we never really gave him much of a look at the NHL level, but I assure you that Andersson is better than both them. That said, Andersson is BARELY an NHLer.

I'd take Callahan over Glendening too. And I agree with your last quote.
 

theYman

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Given that Callahan has proven precisely dick at the NHL level, whereas Andersson has established himself as a passable defensive center and decent penalty killer, I do not see the merit in your claim.

He was a -11 last year. How's that even a passable defensive center? Maybe he was put in some roles he shouldn't have been. And I don't think he's even an avg Pker. Maybe Callahan over Nestrasil would have been better.
 

Dotter

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Glendening has worse numbers because he spent the better part of half of last season playing against the number #1 lines for other teams. Andersson is slow on the PK, and we were significantly worse when he was playing.

Where was Andersson? Riding the pine. He's solid enough to centre a mediocre 3rd scoring line. I really wouldnt trust him in 4th line PK duties.

Thought there was an interview on FSN that said Andersson was injured the 2nd half of the season and never recovered while trying to play through it.

Yup, found piece on it:

"He was sick the whole second half of last year; we couldn't figure out what was wrong with him," coach Mike Babcock said.

www.mlive.com/red_wings_joakim_andersson

The FSN interview was more indepth and explained the real situation and how it impacted his game. He is fully healthy now and skating much better than any previous year. I think Andersson can contribute 15 to 20 goals if has a healthy season.
 

HIFE

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There isn't a gigantic difference between Joker and Glendening. They both play a support role and specialize on the PK. Another thing in common is they're both 25.

I think Andersson clearly has the edge in trust and value at this point. Andersson has already logged 108 NHL games with the Red Wings. In 2013, remember wasn't he on the original "kid" line with Nyquist and Brunner? With Gus he made magic and from those late season and playoff games earned his spot. I haven't seen the same flair since but he is a solid player who works his tail off.

I like Luke too. Every team needs a good looking, thick-necked jock somewhere in the lineup. I love we have a football player on our 4th line! :laugh: He did get 56 games in last season! I think as Glendening gets more confident and experience at the NHL level we may see more points from him, may be surpass Andersson.

It will be interesting to see who makes waves and keeps a place on the 4th line. Possibly there is a few guys (Miller) who could be rotated in and out depending on who is healthy and part of us winning.
 

jaster

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Andersson is better than either of those players. I understand Glendening and Callahan play with a physical edge, but they're both not very good. I mean, maybe Callahan is good, we never really gave him much of a look at the NHL level, but I assure you that Andersson is better than both them. That said, Andersson is BARELY an NHLer.

I appreciate your attempt to assure me, but it'll take more than that to be convincing :) Glendening offered more value to the team last year than Andersson, and is a year of NHL experience behind with a greater chance at improving. I'll still take him over Andersson.


The numbers beg to differ. He's a better PKer, he drives possession better, he has better fenwick corsi numbers, and wins more faceoffs.

Corsi, fenwick.... usually garbage when implemented to evaluate talent. They're like +/-, useless without context and a large enough sample size. They are constantly misused on message boards. Glendening simply hasn't played enough NHL games for those numbers to be meaningful without significant context.

Andersson is not a better PKer; he's, at best, at the same level at the moment. And while he's a better faceoff guy, he's had an extra year to develop that skill at the NHL level; Glendening was better in the dot last year than Andersson was the year before, in his rookie year. And if Andersson drives possession better, it's a negligible amount, since he doesn't really drive possession at all. He is a better puck handler and passer than Glendening though.

Glendening is better defensively, a better skater, more physical, has a better motor/compete level, is an effective agitator who draws penalties, is a better shot blocker, better forechecker and has the better leadership traits.


While Andersson is barely an NHLer, Glendening is not an NHLer at all.

If that didn't fly in the face of reality, I'd offer a more extensive rebuttal than pointing out that it flies in the face of reality :)


Andersson can actually carry the puck, Glendening is forced to always chase and forecheck it. Which isn't good. It's probably why people "think" he's better, because he's always moving and checking. Doesn't mean he's better though.

Andersson can't carry the puck, he's too slow. He handles it for a brief distance and then is pretty decent at moving it. But yes, Andersson does handle the puck better, which is preferable to dumping and chasing.

To be clear though, forechecking isn't always to get the puck back after a dump. It's a method to regain possession, whether that be because you lost a faceoff, you took a shot and there is a rebound, or you simply turned it over in the offensive zone. And Glendening is much better at it.
 
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jaster

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He was a -11 last year. How's that even a passable defensive center? Maybe he was put in some roles he shouldn't have been. And I don't think he's even an avg Pker. Maybe Callahan over Nestrasil would have been better.

Being -11 doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't a passable defensive center. Good defensive 4th-liners often have minus numbers (i.e. Draper, Maltby). They usually aren't out there to score goals, and they usually have linemates who don't score either, so they don't acquire many +'s throughout the season.
 

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