Post-Game Talk: 7 in a row! Canucks def. Ducks - 2-1 (OT) (Pearson, Miller)

[cc]

It would have been nice to see Chiasson taken off the power play and replaced with Pod. Pod is clearly the more talented and skilled player of the two, yet Chiasson still gets these pp opportunities even with this new regime. Chiasson's overuse as a player is what's making me dislike him.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

It would have been nice to see Chiasson taken off the power play and replaced with Pod. Pod is clearly the more talented and skilled player of the two, yet Chiasson still gets these pp opportunities even with this new regime. Chiasson's overuse as a player is what's making me dislike him.

It was amazing to me how active Chiasson was last night in screwing up his own team’s momentum. He got in the way of passes meant for other guys, made multiple passes to no one, took himself off a potential breakaway…just a really strange game of mental brain farts. I’m used to him looking over his head, but that was something special.

That said - Chiasson only bumped onto the first unit because Boeser tested positive for COVID. After having multiple practices to get his units gelling together, I’m sure Boudreau was loathe to change things up too much, hence inserting Chiasson rather than promoting someone from Unit 2.

All IMO.

 

[BWJM]

I really hope the boys are aware of the coaching record and come out and play for Bruce tonight.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Also - Pearson gets a fair bit of flak on here, but a solid performance from him last night. Big tying goal, some nice work all over the ice, and a big defensive play as the last man back before Miller iced it in OT.

 

[Luck 6]

If we keep getting rid of players who hit 30, then we would be left with nothing in a couple of years. Same mistake that happened when we didnt sign Tanev. Now look who is replacing Tanev? Schenn and a half absent Hamonic. Who is there in the pipeline that can play Miller's game? Its easy to trade Miller but my qyeation is who will replace his spot on the team? It just seems Canucks would be sort of a farm team for otger teams where players come here to improve their game and then either be traded or not signed. Happened with Toffoli, Markstrom, McCann etc. We can make room for Miller is we aspire to become a contender soon. The only way you trade Miller is to get another center of the same potential back and a defensive RHD. Still it will be hard to fill Miller's spot since we lack prospects and good draft picks now thanks to Benning who traded lots of prospects and picks for quick fixes.

Count me in the camp that would prefer to re-sign him as long as we get him a non-crippling contract. Although I’d happily move him for a RHD as you said.

7 years at 7.5mil or so though is what it will take at minimum. The last half of that contract will likely be a boat anchor.

 

[Nucker101]

It was amazing to me how active Chiasson was last night in screwing up his own team’s momentum. He got in the way of passes meant for other guys, made multiple passes to no one, took himself off a potential breakaway…just a really strange game of mental brain farts. I’m used to him looking over his head, but that was something special.

That said - Chiasson only bumped onto the first unit because Boeser tested positive for COVID. After having multiple practices to get his units gelling together, I’m sure Boudreau was loathe to change things up too much, hence inserting Chiasson rather than promoting someone from Unit 2.

All IMO.

Chiasson just looks awkward and uncomfortable, especially at 5v5

He makes simple plays look hard.

I’d like to see him sent down and others given an opportunity instead.

 

[geebster]

These are the same ppl that would have traded Mackinnon early in his career LOL

At the same point in Mackinnon's career he had 28 fewer points, heck at the end of his third season Mackinnon had played 21 more games and was still 16 points short of Petey. Its amazing no one brings that up anymore. How can we ever forgive Nathan for this? They should trade him today for the gross injustice he committed in being a first overall pick and not being the greatest player in the league immediately.

Hyperbole aside, without the hindsight of knowing Mackinnon would become a point per game player for the first time in his career 5 years in, comparing him to Petey at 197 games played, I'd take Petey. He had already shown over his first two seasons he could go at around a point per game pace which is something Mackinnon had yet to show at that point, and really didnt show until the Avs got better.

Right now of course I'd take Mackinnon, but at the same point in their careers Petey would appear to have the higher ceiling since he already had a higher level of play in the league.

I wouldnt trade Petey at all, we have seen what he can do and not for a short period of time either. Long term I see him coming out of this just fine. Also hes night and day with the Petey that started the year..that guy couldnt even be near the puck.

Oh and lets make it 8 wins next game so Bruce can have as many wins as Green does this year XD (<--- look im on topic)

 

[mouz135]

I went to bed when the Canucks were losing. Figured this was the end of their little run but what a nice surprise to wake up this morning. This is so much fun cheering for this team again. I’m rejuvenated as a fan, I can only imagine how the players feel now

 

[krutovsdonut]

Chiasson just looks awkward and uncomfortable, especially at 5v5

He makes simple plays look hard.

I’d like to see him sent down and others given an opportunity instead.

watching him it is a mystery how players and coaches like him in the top 6 but they do. miller gave him a shout out in the post-game and i have seen others do it too. i watch him and i see a bunch of incompletely executed offensive plays and a lack of basic offensive ability, but maybe they are focussed on what he does not do.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Also - Pearson gets a fair bit of flak on here, but a solid performance from him last night. Big tying goal, some nice work all over the ice, and a big defensive play as the last man back before Miller iced it in OT.

Was 5th in ice time for forwards,and deployed in all situations by BB..Obviously one of his trusted players.

 

[timw33]

So it’s pretty clear you can get covid more than once ….

Understood—it could become an annual occurrence. Like, it's still unlikely they get it twice in the 8 month season.

 

[Paradise Circus]

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

At the same point in Mackinnon's career he had 28 fewer points, heck at the end of his third season Mackinnon had played 21 more games and was still 16 points short of Petey. Its amazing no one brings that up anymore. How can we ever forgive Nathan for this? They should trade him today for the gross injustice he committed in being a first overall pick and not being the greatest player in the league immediately.

Hyperbole aside, without the hindsight of knowing Mackinnon would become a point per game player for the first time in his career 5 years in, comparing him to Petey at 197 games played, I'd take Petey. He had already shown over his first two seasons he could go at around a point per game pace which is something Mackinnon had yet to show at that point, and really didnt show until the Avs got better.

Right now of course I'd take Mackinnon, but at the same point in their careers Petey would appear to have the higher ceiling since he already had a higher level of play in the league.

I wouldnt trade Petey at all, we have seen what he can do and not for a short period of time either. Long term I see him coming out of this just fine. Also hes night and day with the Petey that started the year..that guy couldnt even be near the puck.

Oh and lets make it 8 wins next game so Bruce can have as many wins as Green does this year XD (<--- look im on topic)

more to the point where is colorado today if they moved heaven and earth to re-sign ROR, didn’t cut bait on duchene, and traded mackinnon because they felt locked into a closing window?

 

[tyhee]

He wont get 10 million but I mean he is part of our core and more than a complimentary player at this stage. Heck he has been more important than Horvat this season.

What he is now is just one of the factors to use in predicting what he'll be for the life of his future contract. Other factors to consider:

-what will his value be over the life of his next contract, especially given it will come into effect when he's 30 years old
-whether the team has the cap space to sign him
-whether he's willing to sign in Vancouver at all as opposed to heading to free agency to see what kind of deal he can get

Going by nothing but the present time is the sort of "planning" that got the Canucks into Cap Hell in the first place.

 

[Indiana]

Brb, gonna go check the Oilers around the NHL thread

Their 'around the NHL' thread is bone dry, but their PGT is juicy.

Some Canucks fan even gets mentioned.

It's hilarious how the conversation there, mimic the exact same arguments we made when Green was here.

 

[tyhee]

At the same point in Mackinnon's career he had 28 fewer points, heck at the end of his third season Mackinnon had played 21 more games and was still 16 points short of Petey. Its amazing no one brings that up anymore. How can we ever forgive Nathan for this? They should trade him today for the gross injustice he committed in being a first overall pick and not being the greatest player in the league immediately.

Hyperbole aside, without the hindsight of knowing Mackinnon would become a point per game player for the first time in his career 5 years in, comparing him to Petey at 197 games played, I'd take Petey. He had already shown over his first two seasons he could go at around a point per game pace which is something Mackinnon had yet to show at that point, and really didnt show until the Avs got better.

Right now of course I'd take Mackinnon, but at the same point in their careers Petey would appear to have the higher ceiling since he already had a higher level of play in the league.

I wouldnt trade Petey at all, we have seen what he can do and not for a short period of time either. Long term I see him coming out of this just fine. Also hes night and day with the Petey that started the year..that guy couldnt even be near the puck.

Oh and lets make it 8 wins next game so Bruce can have as many wins as Green does this year XD (<--- look im on topic)

You're comparing players at vastly different ages.

MacKinnon was born September 1, making him extremely young for his draft year. He had just turned 18 when he entered the NHL.

Pettersson was born November 12, which made him old for his draft year. When he entered the league he was 40 days short of his 20th birthday.

In what was considered his age 22 season, Pettersson put up 21 points in 26 games and had never averaged a point per game.

In what was considered his age 22 season, Mackinnon (a little over 2 months older than Pettersson's age 22 season) put up 97 points in 74 games.

At this age in their careers MacKinnon has obviously been better. Based on games played, as you point out, Pettersson, who started later, is still ahead.

 

[jackjohnson]

What he is now is just one of the factors to use in predicting what he'll be for the life of his future contract. Other factors to consider:

-what will his value be over the life of his next contract, especially given it will come into effect when he's 30 years old
-whether the team has the cap space to sign him
-whether he's willing to sign in Vancouver at all as opposed to heading to free agency to see what kind of deal he can get

Going by nothing but the present time is the sort of "planning" that got the Canucks into Cap Hell in the first place.

What got Canucks into cap hell was overpaying mediocre players not signing guys like Miller. Thats a big difference that needs to be pointed out. Did we need to sign Myers to 6 miliion dollar contract? Did we needed to trade for OEL's 7 million contract? How about giving poolman and pearson 3 million+? Hamonic getting 3 nillion amd not even playing? Add all these up and you will see that its not the miller contract that is causing cap hell for Canucks. I mean you want to cheap out on important players like Tanev and Miller yet be fine with overpaying mediocre players. Thats not how you build a contender. You also dont build a contender by bleeding out great players every year, thats how Buffalo Sabres operate. I mean we gave up on Tanev and toffoli 2 years ago then we gave up on schmidt who is playing great now then you want to give up more great players like Miller? I mean if every year we have to give up on some of our key players then we will never become a contender. You also have to figure that some of our players like Hughes and Petersson will be ticked off losing these key players every year. There needs to be some sembelance of consistency in terms of having key players locked up otherwise it will just be the same cycle of giving players away or trading because they are not 23 years old. How can we compete for the cup if there is no experience, no players developing through adversity amd everyone being young with no vets leading the way. Unless you think Chiasson is the one to lead the way for the Canucks. This plan regarding trading players because they are 30 needs to stop because Hughes and Petersson will soon hit that age too. We dont have the surplus of prospect you think we have to replace these guys. We might not even be able to draft like we used to do when Benning was drafting gold every year. We dont have that luxury anymore or the luxury of drafting top 10. So you need to retain these key players unless you think each one of them will bring in 3 to 4 blue chip prospects. I would be fine with trading Miller if he returns Newhook, Barron and couple of 1st round picks. I would not be fine If he is traded for a mediocre prospect or one measly pick, that basically does nothing for the Canucks.

 

[geebster]

You're comparing players at vastly different ages.

MacKinnon was born September 1, making him extremely young for his draft year. He had just turned 18 when he entered the NHL.

Pettersson was born November 12, which made him old for his draft year. When he entered the league he was 40 days short of his 20th birthday.

In what was considered his age 22 season, Pettersson put up 21 points in 26 games and had never averaged a point per game.

In what was considered his age 22 season, Mackinnon (a little over 2 months older than Pettersson's age 22 season) put up 97 points in 74 games.

At this age in their careers MacKinnon has obviously been better. Based on games played, as you point out, Pettersson, who started later, is still ahead.

When there is such a large disparity in games played at comparable ages it isnt a relevant metric to use. Also, teams make decisions based on a players record, not simply based on age. If 4 years in he had yet to be a point per game, people will view him as a player that isnt a point per game player, regardless of if that point he is 22 or 24. No one would argue at that point that well hes 22 so we should scale up his numbers. One could say he has a higher chance than a 25 year old to get there, but track record is more important than potential. Surely extrinsic factors are less important than on ice play in evaluating a player, we arent comparing a 29 year old to an 18 year old here, they are both young players in these comparisons.

It is a subjective point, but I wouldnt consider 1.8 years to be a vast enough difference to disregard games played comparisons. I am perfectly comfortable comparing a 22 year old to a 24 year old if they have played the same number of games in the league. In terms of importance, their experience in real games outweighs the difference in maturity those nearly 2 years could reasonably give.

 

[KingofSurrey]

You still listening, Im just getting a guy breathing instead of the Bruce interview

Heavy breathing from a Bruce.... doesn't sound too appealing to me.. but whatever floats your boat....

 

[Zippgunn]

Terrific game, I have been very hard on him but Demko has simply been fantastic and guys like Myers and OEL are earning their (admittedly inflated) paycheques. Also very impressed with Schenn who is looking like a bargain suddenly...

 

[jackjohnson]

It would have been nice to see Chiasson taken off the power play and replaced with Pod. Pod is clearly the more talented and skilled player of the two, yet Chiasson still gets these pp opportunities even with this new regime. Chiasson's overuse as a player is what's making me dislike him.

Chaisson was only signed to be a PP specialist and he even sucks at that now. So I guess they are playing him to justify the payment.

 

[ChilliBilly]

What got Canucks into cap hell was overpaying mediocre players not signing guys like Miller. Thats a big difference that needs to be pointed out. Did we need to sign Myers to 6 miliion dollar contract? Did we needed to trade for OEL's 7 million contract? How about giving poolman and pearson 3 million+? Hamonic getting 3 nillion amd not even playing? Add all these up and you will see that its not the miller contract that is causing cap hell for Canucks. I mean you want to cheap out on important players like Tanev and Miller yet be fine with overpaying mediocre players. Thats not how you build a contender. You also dont build a contender by bleeding out great players every year, thats how Buffalo Sabres operate. I mean we gave up on Tanev and toffoli 2 years ago then we gave up on schmidt who is playing great now then you want to give up more great players like Miller? I mean if every year we have to give up on some of our key players then we will never become a contender. You also have to figure that some of our players like Hughes and Petersson will be ticked off losing these key players every year. There needs to be some sembelance of consistency in terms of having key players locked up otherwise it will just be the same cycle of giving players away or trading because they are not 23 years old. How can we compete for the cup if there is no experience, no players developing through adversity amd everyone being young with no vets leading the way. Unless you think Chiasson is the one to lead the way for the Canucks. This plan regarding trading players because they are 30 needs to stop because Hughes and Petersson will soon hit that age too. We dont have the surplus of prospect you think we have to replace these guys. We might not even be able to draft like we used to do when Benning was drafting gold every year. We dont have that luxury anymore or the luxury of drafting top 10. So you need to retain these key players unless you think each one of them will bring in 3 to 4 blue chip prospects. I would be fine with trading Miller if he returns Newhook, Barron and couple of 1st round picks. I would not be fine If he is traded for a mediocre prospect or one measly pick, that basically does nothing for the Canucks.

1. not related - stop calling Bruce BB. Brock is BB as well and its to confusing to an old guy like me.

2. I posted this a couple of days ago

"Every player should be tradable. But the return needs to be there. And the time to trade a player is when they are playing well.

That said, we also need to be cap aware. We are going to have a large amount of money tied up in our core.

So ride this fantastic wave, and lets see where we stand in a month.

But as I said already, one needs to be aware of the cap. Next year is BB. Might be expensive. (Also Dipietro is in the mix) The real issue is the year after.

23 - 24 Need to sign UFA's Miller Horvat. And RFA Hoglander. those 3 are going to take serious money. Or we cash them in.
24 - 25 Podkolzin is going to need a raise. Need to decide if we want Myers back. Oh and we are down to 10 players under contract, who use up $47.7 M of a $81.5 M cap. And if Miller Horvat and Hoglander sign for $6M each, we have $16M left to sign some random 13 players to contracts. (Thats without signing BB!)

I sure hope we have better management than the turkeys who got fired, cuz this is going to be a challenge."

In 3 years time we are going to be in cap hell once again. If BB gets $7.5 M, even without Myers, we have 14 players getting $71 M, that leaves us $10.5 M to sign 10 players AND Podkolzin. Something has to give.