Post-Game Talk: #69 | Hurricanes at Flyers | March 18, 2023

[Angry Hockey Dad]

Chuck set this franchise back 10 years but yeah, it’s those damn hockey gods

 

[Striiker]

Charlie’s a moron

 

[bennysflyers16]

 

[Lindberg]

“Losing culture” doesn’t exist. Made up intangible hockey cliche nonsense.

There’s a reason the teams with that label are ones with shit management and bad rosters.

Sports psychologists never have written about these topics.

Yeah Ryan O'Reilly doesn't know anything either. I'm not sure how you get the idea that the idea of a "losing culture" doesn't exist at all and won't lead to a toxic environment. Management blowing up a team and saying "we hope to lose every game" is essentially saying "we think are players aren't very good at all".

Sabres’ constant losing sapped Ryan O’Reilly’s love for hockey - Buffalo Hockey Beat

BUFFALO – Constant losing over three seasons has taken such a large toll on Ryan O’Reilly the center said he lost his love for hockey at times as the Sabres trudged to the NHL’s worst record this season. Yes, you read that correctly. O’Reilly made the stunning comment Monday morning as the...

www.buffalohockeybeat.com

 

[IronMarshal]

Most unbelieve-able loss in Flyers history

Sandstrom .........

Most Flyer's like loss in 2022-23!

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Sports psychologists never have written about these topics.

Yeah Ryan O'Reilly doesn't know anything either. I'm not sure how you get the idea that the idea of a "losing culture" doesn't exist at all and won't lead to a toxic environment. Management blowing up a team and saying "we hope to lose every game" is essentially saying "we think are players aren't very good at all".

Sabres’ constant losing sapped Ryan O’Reilly’s love for hockey - Buffalo Hockey Beat

BUFFALO – Constant losing over three seasons has taken such a large toll on Ryan O’Reilly the center said he lost his love for hockey at times as the Sabres trudged to the NHL’s worst record this season. Yes, you read that correctly. O’Reilly made the stunning comment Monday morning as the...

www.buffalohockeybeat.com

I’m sure losing can kill confidence but as we saw even with ROR it can come back in a better environment (ie. on a more talented team).

I don’t think it’s coincidence Buffalo is looking better these days as their management is making more sound decisions in building a roster which they lacked all those years.

 

[Striiker]

Sports psychologists never have written about these topics.

Yeah Ryan O'Reilly doesn't know anything either. I'm not sure how you get the idea that the idea of a "losing culture" doesn't exist at all and won't lead to a toxic environment. Management blowing up a team and saying "we hope to lose every game" is essentially saying "we think are players aren't very good at all".

Sabres’ constant losing sapped Ryan O’Reilly’s love for hockey - Buffalo Hockey Beat

BUFFALO – Constant losing over three seasons has taken such a large toll on Ryan O’Reilly the center said he lost his love for hockey at times as the Sabres trudged to the NHL’s worst record this season. Yes, you read that correctly. O’Reilly made the stunning comment Monday morning as the...

www.buffalohockeybeat.com

1) O’Reillys opinion means nothing. Appealing to him is like appealing to Torts or Fletcher or any other brainwashed hockey guy.

2) I didn’t say anything about management blowing up the team and saying “we hope to lose every game”. What are you even talking about? I said best case scenario was they get blown out, which helps their draft position. I don’t care about the worthless moral victory of keeping it close.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

If ever there was a time for Torts to Say f*** it , let’s have fun. Start OT with

Frost
Tippy
Forester

All 3 deserved it.

"safe is death in the modern NHL!"..

i wonder who said that nugget of gold..

oh wait....

Another loser point. Them bagging these stupid loser points is going to keep them from a top 3 pick

11th OA baby..

love them non needle movers.

 

[Lindberg]

I’m sure losing can kill confidence but as we saw even with ROR it can come back in a better environment (ie. on a more talented team).

I don’t think it’s coincidence Buffalo is looking better these days as their management is making more sound decisions in building a roster which they lacked all those years.

You certainly need talent to win but also just drafting a #1 player a few times won't guarantee you that (I'm looking at Edmonton before McDavid).

People around here would want this team to lose all 82 games for the best draft position while ignoring or even pretending that wouldn't hurt the morale of this team and future teammates. Hell it's not even that useful to be that bad since the draft lottery isn't that much in your favor. It also hurts the trade value of your team anyways.

You need a good team in the NHL to win the cup but you certainly don't need the best. I think everyone knows the east is going to be bloodbath this year.

1) O’Reillys opinion means nothing. Appealing to him is like appealing to Torts or Fletcher or any other brainwashed hockey guy.

2) I didn’t say anything about management blowing up the team and saying “we hope to lose every game”. What are you even talking about? I said best case scenario was they get blown out, which helps their draft position. I don’t care about the worthless moral victory of keeping it close.

What? Are you saying that NHL player's opinions on losing is irrelevant? Oh boy.

I didn't claim you said that (#2). There's NHL teams that went out and made sure their players knew they wanted to lose and until recently (Edmonton) hasn't had much to show for it. Although I'm sure you can blame both organizations for poor management in some regard.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

The Flyers are now 0-34-2 when trailing by 2 or more goals. Only winless team in that scenario

 

[Sombastate]

if I've learned anything at all over the past few years is that we don't need someone like Ghost. In fact, I'm just happy the Coyotes didn't demand a first when taking his contract.

Boy, what an eye sore.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

You certainly need talent to win but also just drafting a #1 player a few times won't guarantee you that (I'm looking at Edmonton before McDavid).

People around here would want this team to lose all 82 games for the best draft position while ignoring or even pretending that wouldn't hurt the morale of this team and future teammates. Hell it's not even that useful to be that bad since the draft lottery isn't that much in your favor. It also hurts the trade value of your team anyways.

You need a good team in the NHL to win the cup but you certainly don't need the best. I think everyone knows the east is going to be bloodbath this year.

Edmonton is/has been poorly managed though too. A lot of these talking points of “losing culture” setting in, in reality are situations of poorly managed teams. McDavid willed an otherwise average team to the conference finals last year. Peter Chairelli & Ken Holland have had it on easy mode since they landed him & they have generally failed the test in building around him. A lot of moves these guys have generally made were universally panned even at the time.

 

[Lindberg]

Edmonton is/has been poorly managed though too. A lot of these talking points of “losing culture” setting in, in reality are situations of poorly managed teams. McDavid willed an otherwise average team to the conference finals last year. Peter Chairelli & Ken Holland have had it on easy mode since they landed him & they have generally failed the test in building around him.

I concur and added that in with a stealth edit.

They did have 3 #1 overall picks before McDavid. McDavid is likely the best player of this generation though. They definitely had the lotto balls fall in their favor there along with getting Draisatli a year before. Definitely not a strategy most teams should apply. You can be a bad team and not necessarily carry the stench of losing around.

 

[Striiker]

What? Are you saying that NHL player's opinions on losing is irrelevant? Oh boy.

I didn't claim you said that (#2). There's NHL teams that went out and made sure their players knew they wanted to lose and until recently (Edmonton) hasn't had much to show for it. Although I'm sure you can blame both organizations for poor management in some regard.

Uh, yes? Or are we going to pretend that hockey players aren’t constantly wrong and say/believe stupid shit?

Edmonton is horribly managed. Holland is probably the worst GM in the league and they’ve had horrible GMs for a long time now.

 

[Lindberg]

Uh, yes? Or are we going to pretend that hockey players aren’t constantly wrong and say/believe stupid shit?

Edmonton is horribly managed. Holland is probably the worst GM in the league and they’ve had horrible GMs for a long time now.

You forgetting about Chuck Fletcher?

 

[Starat327]

I feel like a team thats hard to play against shouldn't give up goals with less than a second left. Then blow it in 8 seconds in OT.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I concur and added that in with a stealth edit.

They did have 3 #1 overall picks before McDavid. McDavid is likely the best player of this generation though. They definitely had the lotto balls fall in their favor there along with getting Draisatli a year before. Definitely not a strategy most teams should apply. You can be a bad team and not necessarily carry the stench of losing around.

Yeah but reality is if you want a potential a top tier center/forward during their cost effective young/prime years you generally have to draft them. Your best odds to do so are with top 3-5 picks as that’s usually where they come from opposed to the rest of the draft.

You give a team 5 top 3-5 picks over a decade & odds are they’re probably going to assemble a pretty good top player core which Edmonton ultimately did. That’s with them even giving away Hall in his prime for a middle pairing defender & Yakupov flat out busting.

 

[Striiker]

You forgetting about Chuck Fletcher?

He’s not a GM anymore.

 

[Lindberg]

Yeah but reality is if you want a potential a top tier center/forward during their cost effective young/prime years you generally have to draft them. Your best odds to do so are with top 3-5 picks as that’s usually where they come from opposed to the rest of the draft.

You give a team 5 top 3-5 picks over a decade & odds are they’re probably going to assemble a pretty good top player core which Edmonton ultimately did. That’s with them even giving away Hall in his prime for a middle pairing defender & Yakupov flat out busting.

No argument from me that the top tier players are in the top draft spots.

Well McDavid didn't have too many cost effective years since he went straight from ELC -> 12.5 million. Draitsaitl on the other hand is only at 8.5 million so definitely true there. I quickly glanced at Edmonton's top 6 and it looks like half of them are trades/FA.

Buffalo floundered with ROR/Eichel and both of them are gone for less value then they should have returned (if I recall what HF was saying). Throwing guys into the fire and expecting the results to turn around quickly isn't really a good thing. If you don't have a good supporting cast because you blew it up for a rebuild it might not end as well you like. It also probably leads to a lot of alienation of players since the media and fans expect a good outcome.

5 top 5 picks in a decade is quite a lot. I'd be interested in knowing the statistical luck for that. I'd say anything lower than 50% is a throw away idea.

 

[bennysflyers16]

I feel like a team thats hard to play against shouldn't give up goals with less than a second left. Then blow it in 8 seconds in OT.

To be fair that pass by Provy was tape to tape.

You do have to appreciate the skill to make that pass in close.

 

[mr4tno]

Hard to believe CF paid a 2nd and a 3rd to a TAD who was going to become a free agent. I guess he wanted to get a head start so he did not have to bid against himself because he always loses when that happens

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Well McDavid didn't have too many cost effective years since he went straight from ELC -> 12.5 million. Draitsaitl on the other hand is only at 8.5 million so definitely true there. I quickly glanced at Edmonton's top 6 and it looks like half of them are trades/FA.

Buffalo floundered with ROR/Eichel and both of them are gone for less value then they should have returned (if I recall what HF was saying). Throwing guys into the fire and expecting the results to turn around quickly isn't really a good thing. If you don't have a good supporting cast because you blew it up for a rebuild it might not end as well you like. It also probably leads to a lot of alienation of players since the media and fans expect a good outcome.

He’s been the best player in the league by a good margin since he signed that deal. It’s a big number but in reality he should be a guy that’s taking up 20% of your cap at time of signing opposed to 16% he is. But the NHL as a whole suppresses top player’s salaries by often convincing these players to take less so they can reallocate these savings to the middle & bottom which rarely ever works out.

This happened with McDavid as well as the deal was initially agreed upon with a number closer to $14M per year but he was convinced to take less for the sake of the team.

 

[Starat327]

To be fair that pass by Provy was tape to tape.

You do have to appreciate the skill to make that pass in close.

I didn't say the team was completely devoid of talent. Just feel like, you know, if the players are "trying harder" and not "playing with a loser mentality" like last year, you should be hanging on to that lead.

 

[ponder719]

Reminder that Tortorella doesn't want any Ahos, he wants PK specialists and grinders.

 

[Magua]

I hate the concept of winning/losing culture. Not because I don't believe it exists (or emotional responses in general), but because I think it's so ill-defined, and it's always tainted by hindsight. It's chicken or the egg stuff. Just call it competency and incompetency. You can have an awful team, with a clear plan, that has a competent coaching/front office staff. Is that a losing culture? You have incompetent teams that primarily focus on adding character -- believing that needs to be established before talent -- and feel that losses make losers. Is that winning culture?

Much of it comes down to expectation: people, players included, will rationalize and see positives when internal expectations are low and realistic. Building a bad team (even with a few good players) and declaring the rebuild over, and then continuing to flop, is when the frustration sets in.

The very idea of forcing winning culture upon a team that won't remotely look the same in 5 years is what people loathe. Almost every elite team lost, usually a lot. Many times they suffered incompetency before the competency. I don't think a single person here desires consistently visionless, incompetent tanking.