GDT: #68 - Sabres vs. Avalanche at 3 PM ET on MSG-B and WGR

[Dreakon13]

It wasn't merely coincidental that people's emotions were incredibly high after we dumped our 2C for nothing.

This team is more than a good 2C away from anything. We HAD ROR last year and the team was trash. People really, really need to realize this...

 

[Aladyyn]

This team is more than a good 2C away from anything. We HAD ROR last year and the team was trash. People really, really need to realize this...

This is the worst argument of all time.

 

[Dreakon13]

This is the worst argument of all time.

I'd say this is the worst rebuttal of all time... but this is literally all you do so...

Trust me, I'd much rather have ROR on this team at the moment than Sobotka and Thompson. Obviously I would've liked a better return. But people treat the ROR trade like the team was on the verge on contention and Botts pulled the rug out on it, like it was Drury/Briere all over again... and have spent the last almost year at this point on their high horses singing "we told you so, look how bad we are, imagine this team with a good 2C". They weren't even close. They weren't even close before, and they still aren't. They were Dead. ****ing. Last.

As bad as the ROR trade is looking, in reality it doesn't move the needle at all. The needle was already at the bottom. A debate in how much worse the worst team in the league got is pretty much the least productive thing I can think of. Yet people here relish in it, dragging it into almost every conversation and GDT with impunity... which I guess is fitting for fans of the least productive team in the league.

 

[Aladyyn]

guess 6 wins means nothing

 

[Tatanka]

This team is more than a good 2C away from anything. We HAD ROR last year and the team was trash. People really, really need to realize this...

No we had ROR and No Dahlin. He immediately strengthened the d corps. We also would have ROR and no effing Vlad Thompson, Sheary and Hunwick. We couldnstill have added Skinner. We saved no cap trading ROR. So we would have had
Skinner Jack xxxx
Xxx ROR Sam
Erod or whomever Mitts Okposos
Girgs Larry Wilson
Pommers etc

We would have been able to call up Amerks to get looks. The problem with the team being trash as you put it is that it needed adds not a total tear down which essentially Botts is doing moving out Murray guys.

 

[Dreakon13]

No we had ROR and No Dahlin. He immediately strengthened the d corps. We also would have ROR and no effing Vlad Thompson, Sheary and Hunwick. We couldnstill have added Skinner. We saved no cap trading ROR. So we would have had
Skinner Jack xxxx
Xxx ROR Sam
Erod or whomever Mitts Okposos
Girgs Larry Wilson
Pommers etc

We would have been able to call up Amerks to get looks. The problem with the team being trash as you put it is that it needed adds not a total tear down which essentially Botts is doing moving out Murray guys.

It's all grass is greener talk. Which is fine, but only if everyone understands that's all it is. Everything that can't happen spun to sound perfect because it's gotta be better than what we have now, right?

We saved future cap space by trading ROR. Even if Berglund stayed, Sobotka was gone in 2 years and Bergs cap is cut in half by the time we needed to pay the kids and/or anyone else who stepped up. Unless our window was literally this year and next... something no one in their right mind would think after finishing DFL no matter how promising things seemed... we're in a better spot cap wise having moved ROR.

We don't know if ROR was happy here in BUF, we probably wouldn't have gotten the STL version of him. We probably wouldn't have been able to afford ROR, Skinner and paying Dahlin, Reinhart (and maybe Mittelstadt) long term. We don't know if the Amerks callups would've been particularly effective top 6 NHLers at this point... they'd likely go through their own struggles and stretches of less-than-productive play like the rest of them... and pulling the best Rochester has to offer up would hurt their season. There's always big brown patches in the greener grass, but no one ever thinks of that until they're standing on it.

 

[Aladyyn]

The use of "future cap space" really tells you all you need to know about the trade and just how impossible it is to justify it.

 

[Dreakon13]

The use of "future cap space" really tells you all you need to know about the trade and just how impossible it is to justify it.

If you're referring to me... saying that the team would still suck with ROR, because we already saw the team suck with ROR and this team is clearly not a 2C away from contending, is not justifying the trade. It's just logic.

EDIT: We'd be a more talented team with ROR. We'd still suck.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

There's still 7-8 players that need replacing. This roster is very much a work in progress and ROR trade or not, it wasn't changing that issue.

 

[OkimLom]

This team is more than a good 2C away from anything. We HAD ROR last year and the team was trash. People really, really need to realize this...

We HAD Eichel this year and the years prior, the team was trash. When do we get rid of him?

 

[OkimLom]

There's still 7-8 players that need replacing. This roster is very much a work in progress and ROR trade or not, it wasn't changing that issue.

I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.

 

[Aladyyn]

We HAD Eichel this year and the years prior, the team was trash. When do we get rid of him?

Think of all the future cap space!

 

[Dreakon13]

We HAD Eichel this year and the years prior, the team was trash. When do we get rid of him?

Again... and again and again and again and again and again and again... this wasn't an attempt to advocate for the ROR trade.

Just advocating against the idea of anyone saying "see why we were so upset when the trade happened, look how bad the team is without our 2C!" ... because, you know, the team stunk with our 2C too. And would probably still stink even with that 2C.

That doesn't mean I'm glad the trade happened, or that it should've happened, or that we need to trade other good players, or that we don't stink without ROR.

Think of all the future cap space!

The post I quoted said there was no cap savings from the trade. There were cap savings, just not this year. I corrected them. It's just the facts.

 

[UnleashRasmus]

This game was hideous. We spent so much time in our zone. Fire Housley, god he's f***ing terrible.

 

[Tatanka]

Again... and again and again and again and again and again and again... this wasn't an attempt to advocate for the ROR trade.

Just advocating against the idea of anyone saying "see why we were so upset when the trade happened, look how bad the team is without our 2C!" ... because, you know, the team stunk with our 2C too. And would probably still stink even with that 2C.

That doesn't mean I'm glad the trade happened, or that it should've happened, or that we need to trade other good players, or that we don't stink without ROR.


The post I quoted said there was no cap savings from the trade. There were cap savings, just not this year (the saving. I corrected them. It's just the facts.

What peoplenare replying to is the claim we would be worse because we were bad last year. We were. No argument. But add Dahlin and Skinner to last year without dragging us down with Vlad Tt Sheary and Hunwick and I do not see the same result. Botts could still have added Skinner. Taking on a cap dump to get Sheary would not have been necessary and if ROR was the problem you could have done something in season without the self inflicted price devaluation of the artificial deadline. Botts has been pulling a fast one tearing things down and everyone blames Murray. I don't get it. There should be outrage that he is allowed in Erie County.

 

[Sabre the Win]

If you're referring to me... saying that the team would still suck with ROR, because we already saw the team suck with ROR and this team is clearly not a 2C away from contending, is not justifying the trade. It's just logic.

EDIT: We'd be a more talented team with ROR. We'd still suck.

No we would have two NHL lines instead of one.

Skinner-Eichel-xxxx
Xxxx-ROR-Reinhart

That right there makes a huge difference and is probably the difference in points to actually being in a wild card spot.

 

[GellMann]

For 42 games we used a 2C that didn't register a goal in that time. Replacing that with what would have been our best two-way ES player and our second-best offensive one would have made a huge difference, because we would have won games we lost, and the team would have continued to believe in themselves. It'd have a trickle-down impact on guys like Mitts, who would have gotten to play against Sheahan instead of Malkin, Eller instead of Kuznetsov etc. and we almost certainly would have a different view on this season. The gap between a 60+ point two-way Selke finalist and the guy we used in that role instead is absolutely mammoth and over a stretch of long games would improve things by more than just raw production from the 2C spot.

 

[Royisgone]

This team is more than a good 2C away from anything. We HAD ROR last year and the team was trash. People really, really need to realize this...

Yeah, but it was a ROR deliberately playing and talking himself off the team. That's not really quite the same as having ROR on your team trying to win and do the things ROR does.

Your point is well taken though. Our overall team talent level is quite low. I see 1 defenseman worth keeping, I see maybe 4 or 5 forwards worth keeping.

I see no goalies worth keeping.

That's not a lot.

 

[Royisgone]

We HAD Eichel this year and the years prior, the team was trash. When do we get rid of him?

Are you lobbying for moving Eichel?

Eichel is a talented guy who I think will be a very reliable point per game man down the road. He's not "carry a franchise on his back" guy though. Not close.

He should not be the Captain right now, maybe not ever.