Post-Game Talk: #68 | FLYERS at Bruins | Thu., Mar. 8, 2018, 7:00 pm ET

[RANKKA]

well it turned out i won 700$ cause of that marchand goal

 

[Rebels57]

well it turned out i won 700$ cause of that marchand goal

 

[SaSaShi]

I want to take a second and talk about Nolan Patrick. Hockey sense, vision. His hands in around the net are exceptional, whether its a pass like last night or going top shelf off the back hand. His board work is getting a lot better. Flyers center depth figures to be very strong for years to come. It's not all bad.

He had another good game last night, but the game against the Pens he really showed out. I underestimated his vision and passing as I thought he was more of a scorer, but man...he sees the ice extremely well. Excited to see what he becomes starting next year.

 

[deadhead]

2012-13:

Coburn (27) 22:37 CorsiRel -4.5
L Schenn (23) 21:52 CorsiRel +3.3
Kimmo (37) 21:46 CorsiRel +7.2
Gustafsson (24) 20:09 CorsiRel -2.2
Grossman (28) 18:20 CorsiRel -3.8
Gervais (28) 18:07

Giroux (25) 21:10 CorsiRel +3.1
Read (26) 18:01
Voracek (23) 17:04 CorsiRel +6.9
Briere (35) 16:04
Couts (20) 15:53
Hartnell (30) 15:52 CorsiRel +7.8
Simmonds (24) 15:38
Schenn (21) 15:32
Talbot (28) 15:26 CorsiRel -5.2
Gagne (32) 14:17
Knuble (40) 12:55
Fedotenko (34) 12:34 CorsiRel -6.4
Rinaldo (22) 8:33 CorsiRel -9.2

 

[Beef Invictus]

Is there a point?

 

[Striiker]

Is there a point?

Never

 

[Hakroach]

Is there a point?

Good times. We had a proper coach back then.

 

[FlyersMania2]

The teams play is proving exactly why this WAS the year to stand pat at the deadline...

Nothing he could have done would have fixed the current problems. He 100% did the right thing by doing nothing.

Deadline acquisitions aren't fixing 3 of the 6 D, a starting goalie, and the Filppula line.

He must play those 3 D men and Flip..HE HAS NO CHOICE

 

[deadhead]

Is there a point?

Just showing how Lavi used his players when he didn't have a ridiculously deep roster.
2012-13 was still deeper than the current Flyers, with three solid lines.
He had three solid D-men and three "trash" D-men.
Goalies had a .905 save percentage.
And they had 49 points in 48 games (84 point rate).
So I guess Lavi wasn't a miracle worker.

Couts (#8) and Schenn (#5) were his only "young players."
Voracek (23), Simmonds (24) and Giroux (25) were established players, like Couts today.
So it's hard to say how he'd use the current Flyer youngsters.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Is there a point?

Point? Brayden Point is on Tampa. Oh another point. Carry on.

 

[Starat327]

Is there a point?

As usual, Only if you squint really hard, hop on one foot, and tie one arm behind your back. And even then, its a very faint link to make it.

 

[FrustratedFlyer]

You mentioned something earlier Striker about a lot of people swinging wildly (not like that Captain Poulin!) from each side of the season expectation argument but I'd like to think most have had reasonably balanced expectations for this season:

Hak isn't doing the best of jobs with our youth, Hexy can't or won't force his hand with the roster and so a bubble team we are and that was the expectation.

I believe our winning run was demonstrable to be the work of this teams leaders and despite Hak with the majority of the results down to his poor turtling cling on for a point strategy. He has however shown reasonable success in bringing in a steady system overall. I'm repeating myself but this off season (whether we make the 'offs or not) is crucial. Hexy has to allow Flip and Manning to walk and try everything he can to trade Farmer. I would much rather sink with a forward lineup that includes Lindblom, Voro, MV and NAK and a D corp that includes Sanheim, Morin and Myers and then know exactly what we have in these players than barely keep afloat again with a roster that includes a lot of poor players.

 

[deadhead]

I'm not sure I want Vorobyev and Myers starting the season in Philly unless they show they're NHL ready in TC.
This idea you can accelerate a players development by force feeding them NHL minutes is simply hope over experience.
Myers was a late bloomer who didn't get big minutes until his post-nondraft season.
Vorobyev had 80 KHL games in a minor role, Lindblom was a top SHL forward for two seasons.

NAK, Sanheim and Morin should be ready to start next season.
MV has the experience, but does he have the talent?
Frost has the talent and hockey IQ, does he have the body?

I expect Hextall to add a body or two to upgrade the forward depth.
On defense, it's more addition by subtraction as Manning leaves and MacDonald has to fight for a job.

 

[Striiker]

You mentioned something earlier Striker about a lot of people swinging wildly (not like that Captain Poulin!) from each side of the season expectation argument but I'd like to think most have had reasonably balanced expectations for this season:

Hak isn't doing the best of jobs with our youth, Hexy can't or won't force his hand with the roster and so a bubble team we are and that was the expectation.

I believe our winning run was demonstrable to be the work of this teams leaders and despite Hak with the majority of the results down to his poor turtling cling on for a point strategy. He has however shown reasonable success in bringing in a steady system overall. I'm repeating myself but this off season (whether we make the 'offs or not) is crucial. Hexy has to allow Flip and Manning to walk and try everything he can to trade Farmer. I would much rather sink with a forward lineup that includes Lindblom, Voro, MV and NAK and a D corp that includes Sanheim, Morin and Myers and then know exactly what we have in these players than barely keep afloat again with a roster that includes a lot of poor players.

Sorry, not sure I know which post you're talking about... I don't remember saying that...

 

[FrustratedFlyer]

Sorry, not sure I know which post you're talking about... I don't remember saying that...

Standby

 

[FrustratedFlyer]

Always with the extremes on this board.

On one side there’s exaggerations from people who act like the coach and GM can never do any wrong.

Then on the other side it’s negative exaggerations.

Both are equally ridiculous and neither side seems to learn their lesson.
Meanwhile most people are in the middle and know that there’s a balance.

This one? Not a criticism btw just an observation that I hope most had the same bubble expectations for this season

 

[Striiker]

This one? Not a criticism btw just an observation that I hope most had the same bubble expectations for this season

Ah ok. Let me clarify.

It’s not that people are swinging back and forth. It’s that there’s a tiny group waaaaaay to the one extreme and then another tiny group waaaaay to the opposite extreme.

I know the vast majority of people are in the middle, like I said in the last sentence.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Just showing how Lavi used his players when he didn't have a ridiculously deep roster.
2012-13 was still deeper than the current Flyers, with three solid lines.
He had three solid D-men and three "trash" D-men.
Goalies had a .905 save percentage.
And they had 49 points in 48 games (84 point rate).
So I guess Lavi wasn't a miracle worker.

Couts (#8) and Schenn (#5) were his only "young players."
Voracek (23), Simmonds (24) and Giroux (25) were established players, like Couts today.
So it's hard to say how he'd use the current Flyer youngsters.

Oh my god, you're still spreading the lie that the 2012 D group was equal or better than this one.

Dude, stop lying. Nobody in that group approached Provy or Ghost.

 

[deadhead]

Kimmo 45g 5-24 29 Corsi 52.3% CorsiRel 7.2 - forgotten how good Kimmo was?
Now you can make the case that Provorov is much better than Coburn
But L Schenn 3-8 11 Corsi 49,8% 102 blocks, 187 hits was better than Gudas this year (never would play that well again)
And Grossman, Gustfasson and Gervais v Hagg, Manning and MacDonald?

Giroux 48g 13-35 48 Corsi 50.6%
Voracek 48g 22-24 46 Corsi 53.1%
Simmonds 48g 15-17 32 Corsi 48.0%
B Schenn 47g 8-18 26 Corsi 48.4%
Read 42g 11-13 24
Couts 46g 4-11 15 (underutilized as a checking center)
Hartnell 32g 8-3 11 Corsi 51.9%

The forwards this year aren't as good, next year when Lindblom and Patrick grow up, they could be better.
Both B Schenn and Couts played better under Berube the next season, natural development or a coach who suppressed the performance of his young players? It's just as fair to ask that about Lavi (and his two young forwards) as about Hakstol.

The talent differential between 2011-12 and 2017-18 is not a yawning chasm, at best it's a crack in the pavement.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Timonen was basically being carefully deployed at that point given his age & everything.

NHL.com - Stats

 

[deadhead]

You mean like Ghost?

Notice the guys with the most ES minutes were the "bruisers," Coburn and Schenn.

Maybe the idea that Lavi would use the current players drastically different from Hakstol is just a wet dream?
Like Lavi under utilitizing B Schenn and Couts in favor of veterans?
Or playing less skilled, more physical D-men more ES minutes than his smaller PP specialist?

 

[FrustratedFlyer]

I'm not sure I want Vorobyev and Myers starting the season in Philly unless they show they're NHL ready in TC.
This idea you can accelerate a players development by force feeding them NHL minutes is simply hope over experience.
Myers was a late bloomer who didn't get big minutes until his post-nondraft season.
Vorobyev had 80 KHL games in a minor role, Lindblom was a top SHL forward for two seasons.

NAK, Sanheim and Morin should be ready to start next season.
MV has the experience, but does he have the talent?
Frost has the talent and hockey IQ, does he have the body?

I expect Hextall to add a body or two to upgrade the forward depth.
On defense, it's more addition by subtraction as Manning leaves and MacDonald has to fight for a job.

What do they need to show though relative to what we have? Flip? Manning? Farmer? Hagg? I'm happy to let them accumulate experience and learn on the job even if they struggle as existing poor players can't learn any new tricks and play awfully regardless. Same point with MV. Giving him a shot also would allow Laughton to move back to wing which I think helps his game. Can Frost take a hit? Well, let him play and lets see.....

Farmer doesn't have to fight for a job - there are plenty available in LHV

 

[FrustratedFlyer]

You mean like Ghost?

Notice the guys with the most ES minutes were the "bruisers," Coburn and Schenn.

Maybe the idea that Lavi would use the current players drastically different from Hakstol is just a wet dream?
Like Lavi under utilitizing B Schenn and Couts in favor of veterans?
Or playing less skilled, more physical D-men more ES minutes than his smaller PP specialist?

If we want to play the hypothetical game there is an enormous point not mentioned here. Lavi would have proactively asked for Lindblom, MV, Voro, NAK, Sanheim, Morin and Myers and Hexy would have wet himself rather than having to bang his head on his desk every time he sees this roster play and play Hak logic. With those players up, much like the allegations that Hak has no choice, Lavi would have had no choice but to NOT use the current players in a drastically different way from Hak

 

[1865]

The NHL app shows how long is left in the archived game, so I knew a goal was coming. I had zero confidence it would be us.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

You mean like Ghost?

Notice the guys with the most ES minutes were the "bruisers," Coburn and Schenn.

Maybe the idea that Lavi would use the current players drastically different from Hakstol is just a wet dream?
Like Lavi under utilitizing B Schenn and Couts in favor of veterans?
Or playing less skilled, more physical D-men more ES minutes than his smaller PP specialist?

This might make sense if Timonen wasn’t a 100 years old at that point.