Post-Game Talk: #68|Blue Jackets at FLYERS |Mon. March 13, 2017

[Striiker]

The guy with 30 goals who can play defense and has become a good PKer and is the epitome of grit and hard work is trash to you now.


That's it, it's official. There isn't any player in the NHL that you would like wearing a Flyers jersey. It's now clear you don't like the team, you like complaining about them. Hence why you'll loudly shriek about how awful everyone is when they're losing a game, then if they come back and win you're silent from the moment they take the lead and while they hold it.

Sad, isn't it?

And there's quite a few posters who do the same thing.

 

[Beef Invictus]

His 2016-17 point total is neither fabricated, cherrypicked, nor a reach of any kind. It sucks.

Fascinating that you've spent so much time singling out our leading ES point scorer instead of wondering why the entire team, especially our centers, saw a drop in production. Of all our centers, Couturier made the best of a flawed situations and is the least of our issues at the position.

Virtually all of the Coots flock - perhaps not including yourself, I wouldn't recall - were aggressive and hostile in telling me he was at LEAST a 2C based on his performance last year, and even a 1C in a pinch. If I had more time I'd go back and find some posts. At least now we're talking about this player semi-sensibly, with some exceptions.

Are you honestly telling me you're not disappointed by him this year?

Disappointed? Not really, when you consider all factors instead of getting tunnel vision. I'll break the team down in terms of my disappointment or otherwise.

Players that Disappoint Me (so far):

Voracek
Giroux
Raffl
MDZ
Neuvirth
Mason
Schenn
Weise
MacDonald
Ghost

Neutral:

Couturier
Read
Manning (he is what he is)
PEB and VDV (They are what they are, no better or worse than expectation)
Schultz
Lube
Gudas
Filppula


Impressed:

Simmonds
Cousins (I had really low expectations, not hard to exceed/impress)
Weal (ditto, and small sample)
The Neck
Provorov


Coaches that disappoint:


All

 

[Brayden Fattison]

The guy with 30 goals who can play defense and has become a good PKer and is the epitome of grit and hard work is trash to you now.


That's it, it's official. There isn't any player in the NHL that you would like wearing a Flyers jersey. It's now clear you don't like the team, you like complaining about them. Hence why you'll loudly shriek about how awful everyone is when they're losing a game, then if they come back and win you're silent from the moment they take the lead and while they hold it.

The Negadelphia types are going to be an interesting sociological phenomenon if the Flyers ever win another cup. Will they start criticizing the team's future, vis-a-vis their lower draft status? Will they gain a positive outlook and stop *****ing? Will they follow a new team that doesn't cause dissonance with their worldview? Will they have what my late grandmother would have called a ******** hemorrhage? Journal articles and grad school theses will be written.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's harder to find another group of people so dedicated to following a sports team so they can use it to wallow in misery. Even Browns and Redskins fans are more positive and upbeat than Negadelphians. It would be pretty funny to see a study done.

 

[deadhead]

Players that Disappoint Me (so far):

Voracek
Giroux
Raffl
MDZ
Neuvirth
Mason
Schenn
Weise
MacDonald
Ghost

Neutral:

Couturier
Read
Manning (he is what he is)
PEB and VDV (They are what they are, no better or worse than expectation)
Schultz
Lube
Gudas
Filppula

Impressed:

Simmonds
Cousins (I had really low expectations, not hard to exceed/impress)
Weal (ditto, and small sample)
The Neck
Provorov

I pretty much agree except for Luby, coming off his performance last year in Russia, I expected some offensive skills.

The fact that the young players surprised for the most part, and the veterans disappointed, makes me wonder if the scheme simply exposed some veterans' limitations.

Giroux just looks slow (the hip, age?)
Voracek looks brain dead, I see someone skating around aimlessly, instead of working with his linemates.
Schenn is slow

Ghost to me looks like a combination of the hip and a sophmore slump, losing a little explosion exposed his bad fundamentals, and then he lost confidence - the last few weeks he looks both more explosive and more determined, and more careful in his D-zone.

Watching Weal, I feel like I'm seeing Giroux 3-4 years ago, he's making plays in crowds (how did he get that pass to Simmonds for a wide open shot?), taking on bigger opponents and holding the puck, maneuvering and making plays. Which suggests to me it's less the scheme than the players.

Let's fact it, Konency and Schenn are the only shooters among the forwards, Simmons is great in the crease but doesn't have a killer wrist shot, Giroux, Voracek, Flipper are better playmakers than scorers, Couts is a solid defensive center who's average offensively. Add a scorer or two to this forward group and they'd look much better.

The best shots the last few games have come from Konency and Gudas, great wrist shots at the top corner - Gudas should be encouraged to shoot more from the point, he has the knack of the quick release on his wrist shot that helps get it to the net. One problem all season was wild slap shots that bounce around instead of just getting the puck on net where either someone can deflect it or you can engender a rebound. They improved on this the last few weeks and have been snake bit - do everything right and the puck bounces past a forward in position or the goalie makes a great save (like Bob last night).

 

[Striiker]

You think every player looks slow so you saying that about anyone at all is completely meaningless.

Your eye test continues to fail you.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I pretty much agree except for Luby, coming off his performance last year in Russia, I expected some offensive skills.

The fact that the young players surprised for the most part, and the veterans disappointed, makes me wonder if the scheme simply exposed some veterans' limitations.

Giroux just looks slow (the hip, age?)
Voracek looks brain dead, I see someone skating around aimlessly, instead of working with his linemates.
Schenn is slow

Ghost to me looks like a combination of the hip and a sophmore slump, losing a little explosion exposed his bad fundamentals, and then he lost confidence - the last few weeks he looks both more explosive and more determined, and more careful in his D-zone.

Watching Weal, I feel like I'm seeing Giroux 3-4 years ago, he's making plays in crowds (how did he get that pass to Simmonds for a wide open shot?), taking on bigger opponents and holding the puck, maneuvering and making plays. Which suggests to me it's less the scheme than the players.

Let's fact it, Konency and Schenn are the only shooters among the forwards, Simmons is great in the crease but doesn't have a killer wrist shot, Giroux, Voracek, Flipper are better playmakers than scorers, Couts is a solid defensive center who's average offensively. Add a scorer or two to this forward group and they'd look much better.

The best shots the last few games have come from Konency and Gudas, great wrist shots at the top corner - Gudas should be encouraged to shoot more from the point, he has the knack of the quick release on his wrist shot that helps get it to the net. One problem all season was wild slap shots that bounce around instead of just getting the puck on net where either someone can deflect it or you can engender a rebound. They improved on this the last few weeks and have been snake bit - do everything right and the puck bounces past a forward in position or the goalie makes a great save (like Bob last night).

I had Giroux in neutral, but now that they shifted playstyle a few weeks ago to have more center involvement he still looks bad by his own standards, though he's been starting to look a bit better lately. Couturier began producing at a decent clip. Giroux is unchanged, so I demoted. Hopefully points start to come.

Voracek is a strange case. He outplays a lot of opposing players so he can make some stupid blind pass to nobody. What the hell is the point of all those moves, all that effort protecting the puck, all that hard skating and board battling, if you're just going to blindly backhand the puck straight out of the zone or to the other team afterwards? It's amazingly futile.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

It's harder to find another group of people so dedicated to following a sports team so they can use it to wallow in misery. Even Browns and Redskins fans are more positive and upbeat than Negadelphians. It would be pretty funny to see a study done.

I don't think I could ever support a team with Dan Snyder as the owner. That guy is a moron. At least Jerry Jones & Al Davis were really good in their prime & fell off as they got older (although I think Jones has stepped back recently as Dallas is starting to make more sensible moves for the better). The worst part is Snyder has sucked all along & isn't even that old today. So he's still got a lot of years ahead of him unfortunately for Skins fans that are still hanging on.

 

[tictactoe]

....Why did people ever expect Couturier to be a superstar? I never did. I've only ever expected him to be a 2C/3C similar to Jordan Staal, which is a vital piece for any contending team.

If people are disappointed he didn't become a superstar that's on them for jumping to absurd conclusions, and it's goofy to lay all this constant abuse on him for not fitting weird fantasy-standards. It's exceptionally similar to Jeff Carter, where despite being a very good player, tons of fans were pissed that he wasn't even better.

You think Couturier is close to Jordan Staal?

 

[Appleyard]

Since start of 2015-16:

Raw:

54.70% Corsi, 56.34% ExGF, 55.67% SCF, 53.52 GF%
54.86% Corsi, 55.48% ExGF, 57.46% SCF, 52.31 GF%

Relative:
+4.11% CF rel, +7.35 ExGF rel, +8.03% SCF rel, +10.55% GF rel
+4.40% CF rel, +7.84 EXGF rel, +10.62% SCF rel, +8.66% GF rel

Contextual:
27.84% OZS, 32.30% DZS, 50.06 CF QoC, 50.08 ExGF QoC
27.56% OZS, 33.75% DZS, 50.31 CF QoC, 50.43 ExGF QoC

Scoring:
5v5 G/60: 0.56, 5v5 P/60: 1.69
5v5 G/60: 0.66, 5v5 P/60: 1.75


One of those is Staal... one is Couturier.

And no, last year is not propping Couturier up in virtually any stat apart from Assists/60. (his G/60 is actually higher than last year... but his A/60 have halfed.)

 

[FlyersFanInMtl]

I just sure hope that Hextall is waiting for the end of this season to fire all the assistants. I think Joey Mullen HAS to be the first one fired. The power play is so predictable and stagnant. That's what cost us many games especially last night, when they had 5 pp's in a row and did dick!!

 

[deadhead]

I had Giroux in neutral, but now that they shifted playstyle a few weeks ago to have more center involvement he still looks bad by his own standards, though he's been starting to look a bit better lately. Couturier began producing at a decent clip. Giroux is unchanged, so I demoted. Hopefully points start to come.

Voracek is a strange case. He outplays a lot of opposing players so he can make some stupid blind pass to nobody. What the hell is the point of all those moves, all that effort protecting the puck, all that hard skating and board battling, if you're just going to blindly backhand the puck straight out of the zone or to the other team afterwards? It's amazingly futile.

I took a lot of flac for saying he plays like a 180 lb forward, but to be fair, Konency is more physical than Voracek, more willing to take contact and more aggressive attacking the net. Voracek skates around but neither to set up a shot or to work with his linemates, more just to show that he can control play without a sense of where he's going - and it usually ends badly with a strip, a blind pass or an off target shot. Maybe he should move to center? I dunno, there's more talent than production here.

 

[Striiker]

Yeah, Voracek never does that, except for when he does.

 

[deadhead]

And that's the problem, he CAN do that, but he rarely DOES that.

 

[Striiker]

Well it isn't easy.

He tries it, but it rarely works. Not because he avoids contact or doesn't use his size, but because it's a difficult thing to do.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, Voracek is plenty physical. He just big-boys opposing players.

It's just that he so often does all that work to lead up to a saddening play.

 

[Striiker]

If you're going to get on Voraceks case then your focus should be occasional braindead plays or disappointing shot.

Using his size isn't one of his issues.

 

[Beef Invictus]

For reference, compare what happens generally when Schenn tries to protect the puck vs what happens when Voracek does. It doesn't usually go well.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

You want to hear something funny?
I just remembered that before that one last night, Diamond Dave called it:

"A defining game."



What a dick.

 

[Delete99991]

Voracek's just got too much skill to write off. He can be absolutely dominant at times.

Put him with a dynamic young center and good things should happen.

 

[Striiker]

Lindblom-Rubtsov-Voracek would be such a pain to play against.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Why not put him and G back together since that's when they are at their best.