Post-Game Talk: #67: Flyers at Panthers, Saturday, March 12, 2016

[Random Forest]

Well yeah but I wasn't really arguing that but it is what it is. They suck at the shootout & I really dislike it.

Well, I'm just saying, Mason is quite possibly the worst starting goaltender in the entire NHL in shootouts. It's tough to blame the shooters alone. They're bad, but as difficult as it is to believe, they pull their weight more than Mason.

Since 2012-13, Mason's shootout save percentage has been .593. The historical NHL average is .669. That's more than two standard deviations from the mean and worse than every other starting goalie in that time but Howard and Bernier.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

How has Stolarz been in SO this year?

That's his results in it this year. They don't track it whether a save was made or not, just lists it as a goal or not.

2/2 W
2/3 L
2/3 W
1/2 L
0/2 L
3/3 W

 

[Random Forest]

Shooting has been almost equally bad though. 2nd worst shot percentage all time. So really it's both sides of the coin that suck. Goaltending just sucks a tiny bit more.

No, it's not a tiny bit more. The Flyers' shooters are bad, but they haven't been "in a league of their own" bad. The goaltending has been far and away worse than any other team in the league.

Not arguing that the shooters should be better, but they're not equally to blame here. Biron, Bryzgalov, Bobrovsky, Mason, and even Neuvirth are all among the NHL's worst historical goaltenders in the skills competition.

 

[ILoveStephanieBrown]

I remember a couple seasons back Mason was apparently watching video of MAF in the shootout ( I know, MAF is not a great goalie but he's always been in shootouts) and he was doing quite well as a result by adopting some of his techniques. WTH happened?

 

[Kroos]

Not the result wanted at the end, but 3 out of 4 against 2 good teams is a good weekend. Would have loved to see the Wings lose though. Mason was bad in the SO tonight, but to me, it was 1 point earned as we were down near the end of the game

 

[CSKA1974]

agreed i said the same thing earlier..

the Flyers have both problems... no saves and no shooters..

ugh.

They practice against each other. Vicious cycle

 

[CSKA1974]

You guys have short memories. Biron was awful at shootouts. Like Mason but twice as bad.

There was also mr. Universe

 

[kudymen]

So - another lead changing goal for Ghost? Brieresque clutch level

 

[BillDineen]

So - another lead changing goal for Ghost? Brieresque clutch level

Maybe he wins the Conn Smythe instead of the Calder!

 

[RJ8812*]

agreeed 100%...

how on earth is he so bad at it...

and on the flip so how are the Flyers shooters so godam bad at the same time..

it would be bad to have 1 problem but we got them both...


no saves and no shooters.... jesus...

really?? Bryzgalov???

 

[OzFlyers]

I hate shootout losses because people only talk about the stupid shootout and not the rest of the game. Mason made some great stops but the Panthers are a better team this year. It's great that Ghost got us the point.

 

[tade]

Damn, not a good game, but the point out of this game is very good. 1st line needs to step up, Streit looked really bad. But we still showed a lot of character in this game and could win it easily. Florida is great team, hopefully they can do some damage in the play-offs.

And now the most important games are on the line... Detroit and then Pittsburgh, with Voracek in, I hope.

 

[chupanibre]

I'll take 1 point happily

 

[TheKingPin]

I am happy with 3 pts this weekend. It obviously doesn't get much better than that. We need he wings or pens to start losing. If everyone wins all the time we are stuck.

Let's no forget nuevy was supposed to start this game. Mase played great in Tampa, but back to back is rough on a goalie. Nuevy could have been the difference, but got sick. We are in good shape with mase starting and nuevy backing up.

 

[JP Mick]

Just wanted to drop by and say your team is looking good and Ghost is fantastic. Hope you guys can jump Pitts and make the playoffs.

 

[deadhead]

Got to cut Gudas some slack, he's paired with Manning. Only saw part of the game, but that was another bad play by the Mandog leading to a goal.

But Hakstol and Hextall are dong their best with limited resources.
People harp about the 4th line, but they play about 12 minutes, including PK, Laughton and Cousins 9 minutes with no PK. So the first two lines are playing close to 20 minutes a night. Can't see how he can change this much right now.

And on defense, Gudas looked his best paired with MDZ. Schultz is ok in the D-zone but for a guy who's a decent skater, an absolute cipher on offense - an attack killer. Streit is near the end of the line, take anything to dump his salary, he played 28 minutes last night, which pretty much says it all about Hakstol's confidence in Medvedev and Manning.

It's amazing they're playing this well given the obvious talent limitations. Getting V back will help.

Gagner is going to make it harder for Hextall, a month ago letting him walk was the obvious move, now it may come down to money. If I'm Gagner, I sign a two year deal, don't get greedy, and let them coach me into a player worthy of a big last contract.

 

[Curufinwe]

Well, I'm just saying, Mason is quite possibly the worst starting goaltender in the entire NHL in shootouts. It's tough to blame the shooters alone. They're bad, but as difficult as it is to believe, they pull their weight more than Mason.

Since Mason became the starter the Flyers have scored 29 goals in 122 attempts - 23.8%. 27th in the league.

In that period he's allowed 35 goals in 86 shootout attempts - 59.3%. Which would be 29th in the league if he was the only Flyers goalie in the past three years. The actual team number is actually lower at .579

And .593 is significantly worse than what he did in Columbus (.650) because when your shooters can't score you end up being left out on the ice for more attempts by the other team and more goals.

Since 2012-13, Mason's shootout save percentage has been .593. The historical NHL average is .669. That's more than two standard deviations from the mean and worse than every other starting goalie in that time but Howard and Bernier.

Schneider's SV% in the past three seasons is .589. Mason did not play in any shootouts in 12-13.

 

[Rebels57]

All 4 goals were due to horrible defensive plays. None were weak goals by any stretch.

While I agree that all 4 goals were high percentage shots against, he did fail to come up with a big save too. That has to be factored in.

Either way, we got 3 out of 4 points in Florida. I'm happy.

 

[Rebels57]

Got to cut Gudas some slack, he's paired with Manning. Only saw part of the game, but that was another bad play by the Mandog leading to a goal.

But Hakstol and Hextall are dong their best with limited resources.
People harp about the 4th line, but they play about 12 minutes, including PK, Laughton and Cousins 9 minutes with no PK. So the first two lines are playing close to 20 minutes a night. Can't see how he can change this much right now.

And on defense, Gudas looked his best paired with MDZ. Schultz is ok in the D-zone but for a guy who's a decent skater, an absolute cipher on offense - an attack killer. Streit is near the end of the line, take anything to dump his salary, he played 28 minutes last night, which pretty much says it all about Hakstol's confidence in Medvedev and Manning.

It's amazing they're playing this well given the obvious talent limitations. Getting V back will help.

Gagner is going to make it harder for Hextall, a month ago letting him walk was the obvious move, now it may come down to money. If I'm Gagner, I sign a two year deal, don't get greedy, and let them coach me into a player worthy of a big last contract.

Being paired with Manning had nothing to do with how badly Gudas played the 3rd goal against. He slid down on his stomach way too early and completely out of the play. The better play there is to go down on 1 knee and reach out towards the shooter with your stick. You give yourself two different methods by which you can block the shot (body or stick), and if he hesitates you can recover and make another attempt to block it.

He also lost a race to the net on Florida's 4th goal.

He was great in Tampa and I really like him overall, but he cost us two goals there.

 

[VanFlyer]

So - another lead changing goal for Ghost? Brieresque clutch level

yes and no. Brieres heroics were mostly in the playoffs.

 

[Curufinwe]

Giroux not getting to shoot before losing is an indefensible poor decision by Hakstol. Should have used him first or second. Hes our most skilled player.

Giroux has been awful at shootouts for two years running now. That's not Hakstol's fault this year and it wasn't Berube's fault last year.

He's 3/20 (15%) in that time. That's a big part of our 18 shootout losses in the past two seasons.

 

[Random Forest]

Since Mason became the starter the Flyers have scored 29 goals in 122 attempts - 23.8%. 27th in the league.

In that period he's allowed 35 goals in 86 shootout attempts - 59.3%. Which would be 29th in the league if he was the only Flyers goalie in the past three years. The actual team number is actually lower at .579

Schneider's SV% in the past three seasons is .589. Mason did not play in any shootouts in 12-13.

You're right about Schneider. You seem to be corroborating everything else I said.

And .593 is significantly worse than what he did in Columbus (.650) because when your shooters can't score you end up being left out on the ice for more attempts by the other team and more goals.

This doesn't make any sense. There's no reason to believe the ineptitude of our shooters should have anything to do with Mason's save percentage. They are independent events.

 

[Curufinwe]

No, your claim that Mason is much worse than the shooters is obviously false.

This doesn't make any sense. There's no reason to believe the ineptitude of our shooters should have anything to do with Mason's save percentage. They are independent events.

No they're not. Look at the last shootout against Montreal. Neuvirth was in net but the point is the same. The Flyers scored on their first attempt and Neuvirth saved the first two SO attempts. If Giroux had scored on the Flyers second attempt, they win 2-0 and Neuvirth gets a .1000 SV%.

But Giroux misses, and Montreal score on their third attempt. If Simmonds scores they win 2-1 and Neuvirth gets a .667 SV%.

But he doesn't. Then Eller misses the nit, and if Voracek scores they win 2-1 and Neuvirth gets a .750 SV%.

But he doesn't. And so Byron scores the winner and Neuvirth ends up with a .600 SV%.

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20152016/SO020872.HTM

 

[Curufinwe]

Here's an example from this year with Mason.

http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20152016/SO020488.HTM

If Laughton scores in the 4th round, Flyers win 2-1, and Mason's SV% is .750.

If Read scores in the 5th round, Flyers win 2-1 and it's .800.

But they don't, and the Flyers lose 2-1, with his SO SV% at .667.

It's not a coincidence that his SO SV% had dropped since coming to Philly even while his overall game has improved a lot.

 

[Rebels57]

Giroux has been awful at shootouts for two years running now. That's not Hakstol's fault this year and it wasn't Berube's fault last year.

He's 3/20 (15%) in that time. That's a big part of our 18 shootout losses in the past two seasons.

Still needs to shoot in every shootout. He is easily our most skilled player in 1 on 1 situations and he will likely snap out of that funk at some point. He was very good before this poor run. We have seen what he can do..