GDT: 6/11/22 - 8:00PM EDT - New York Rangers vs Tampa Bay [ECF GAME 6]

[2020 Cup Champions]

honestly, in real time i was really hoping he'd do something like this in return but he pretty much just gave him a pat, it was uneventful.

F

 

[BoltzManConstant]

With all due respect, you may be overthinking this one. Kuch's edge and moodiness is part of what makes him great. And while I don't necessarily agree with "angry Kuch best Kuch" because he can cross the line when he gets that way and really cost the team, I ultimately think that is part of the "cost of doing business" with him. The truth is that him being close to that line but not over it has paid some very nice dividends and I don't think you want to mess with that too much.

Let's hope that the experience and maturity that anyone would gain from what the Bolts have accomplished and not wanting to do anything to jeopardize it is all of the psychological help that even a guy like Kuch needs to attenuate his most negative impulses.

With all due respect, I think you're wrong. Kuch's dedication to team and to constant self-improvement, his creativity, and his skill with his stick are what make him great.

The easiest way for Kucherov to be a more valuable version of himself is to never again take a bad penalty. He wouldn't need to change a single thing about what he does with himself or the puck -- skills he's so good at he may have maxed them out -- but could still be worth more to the team by erasing negatives.

But that's just part of it. I also suspect that he gets off his game, mentally, in those times that he goes into what appears to be petulant Kuch mode. Now I could be wrong about him getting off his game, because his game is so subtle that some of his best plays look at first like mistakes, and likely some of his mistakes were great plays that he just got unlucky on, all of which make it harder to tell with him than with most players exactly how well he's playing. But if my suspicion is correct, then that's another place he can improve, staying out of the frustration zone and spending more time at peak performance.

And again, if there was someone that helped Stamkos get out of his own head and able to play his normal game in tense playoff situations, then maybe they could help here too. I don't know that that was the case with Stammer, it might just have happened for him after all these years.

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

I think he's gotten a lot better at channeling his emotion since that cheapshot he did.

Agreed, but I'm more inclined to give him a pass now and then too from what he's had to deal with in the 2020 and 2021 runs. You pay a price when you're the #1 target of every team and unfortunately whether it be Duclair, Benn, Mayfield, or whoever, the NHL allow teams to get their shots in.

I know some see him as a selfish player, but I'll point to his infamous #1BS presser. What people probably remember is his diss at the Habs fan base, but he actually spends the time talking up his teammates. He just had 2 conn smythe worthy runs, and yet he makes it all about how amazing Vasy is, how great Stammer is, and the fans in the building. For a guy that has a lot of them, he never really looks like he cares for his own personal accomplishments.

 

[Hoek]

Agreed, but I'm more inclined to give him a pass now and then too from what he's had to deal with in the 2020 and 2021 runs. You pay a price when you're the #1 target of every team and unfortunately whether it be Duclair, Benn, Mayfield, or whoever, the NHL allow teams to get their shots in.

I know some see him as a selfish player, but I'll point to his infamous #1BS presser. What people probably remember is his diss at the Habs fan base, but he actually spends the time talking up his teammates. He just had 2 conn smythe worthy runs, and yet he makes it all about how amazing Vasy is, how great Stammer is, and the fans in the building. For a guy that has a lot of them, he never really looks like he cares for his own personal accomplishments.

So true! He didn't mention a single thing he did, which if you've seen various similar rants by football and basketball players in the past is quite different

 

[Bartleby]

With all due respect, I think you're wrong. Kuch's dedication to team and to constant self-improvement, his creativity, and his skill with his stick are what make him great.

The easiest way for Kucherov to be a more valuable version of himself is to never again take a bad penalty. He wouldn't need to change a single thing about what he does with himself or the puck -- skills he's so good at he may have maxed them out -- but could still be worth more to the team by erasing negatives.

But that's just part of it. I also suspect that he gets off his game, mentally, in those times that he goes into what appears to be petulant Kuch mode. Now I could be wrong about him getting off his game, because his game is so subtle that some of his best plays look at first like mistakes, and likely some of his mistakes were great plays that he just got unlucky on, all of which make it harder to tell with him than with most players exactly how well he's playing. But if my suspicion is correct, then that's another place he can improve, staying out of the frustration zone and spending more time at peak performance.

And again, if there was someone that helped Stamkos get out of his own head and able to play his normal game in tense playoff situations, then maybe they could help here too. I don't know that that was the case with Stammer, it might just have happened for him after all these years.

Yup, all of those things make Kuch great, but they are all done with the temperament of a great artist, which he is. And great artists often have complex, mercurial personalities that are at the core of their creativity. Try to rein them in too much and you risk throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Ducati Boy]

Anybody else really impressed with Nash last night? I constantly forget he's on the team but he was great.

The underrated series turning point was inserting Nash as the 12th forward and going with 6 D.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

Yup, all of those things make Kuch great, but they are all done with the temperament of a great artist, which he is. And great artists often have complex, mercurial personalities that are at the core of their creativity. Try to rein them in too much and you risk throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Ehhhhh, what makes an artist great and what makes a team-sport athlete great -- even a creative one like Kuch -- are so different as to be basically incomparable. "Great artist" is a fun metaphor for a wizard like Kuch, but you're fooling yourself by stretching it beyond that.

What truly underlies Kuch's greatness is his dedication to perfection, the endless time he spends on the ice, on the fake ice at his house, and analyzing the game and how to be better. Complex, mercurial personality isn't an element of any of that.

You're right to point out that undertaking any changes is not without risk, that outcomes are a result of infinitely complex interactions and you tweak one variable and you might get something you didn't want or expect, but it's a minimal risk. Of course it's all idle speculation on my part unless it's something Kuch himself would want, and I have no reason to think he would want it or hasn't already tried it if he did.

 

[Bartleby]

Ehhhhh, what makes an artist great and what makes a team-sport athlete great -- even a creative one like Kuch -- are so different as to be basically incomparable. "Great artist" is a fun metaphor for a wizard like Kuch, but you're fooling yourself by stretching it beyond that.

What truly underlies Kuch's greatness is his dedication to perfection, the endless time he spends on the ice, on the fake ice at his house, and analyzing the game and how to be better. Complex, mercurial personality isn't an element of any of that.

You're right to point out that undertaking any changes is not without risk, that outcomes are a result of infinitely complex interactions and you tweak one variable and you might get something you didn't want or expect, but it's a minimal risk. Of course it's all idle speculation on my part unless it's something Kuch himself would want, and I have no reason to think he would want it or hasn't already tried it if he did.

On the one hand you are dismissive of the notion that a complex personality is any part of the kind of single minded dedication that Kuch appears to have and then a moment later acknowledge "complex interactions" that you might not want to mess with. Seems to me you're just arguing to argue. And not to put to fine a point on the line between on-ice wizardry and complex personalities, what's all the buzz around McKinnon these days? Is he too tightly wound, is he going to lose his cool in a big moment? Hmm, where have we seen such things occur before? But it is that very same thing that drives him. If he was more mellow would he be the player he is? Doubtful. Same for Kuch.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Absolute dog shit that piece of shit scum Laf doesn’t even get a call. Not even a f***ing peep, but you know, refs favour Tampa!

 

[Bozo Nicholson]

Where is the sequel in easily viewable format?

 

[Stammertime91]

Honestly I wanted more from kuch there. If my friend did that to me in 2019 I would have made that line come to a halt with everything I had planned. The youtube clip would've been a movie on its own.

 

[Ducati Boy]

Absolute dog shit that piece of shit scum Laf doesn’t even get a call. Not even a f***ing peep, but you know, refs favour Tampa!

The refs 'favour' Tampa because they win. If you lose, the refs couldn't favour you.

This is the current prevalent mode of critical thinking:
Observe an outcome and then retrospectively explain it in terms of your side's unfair victimization.

Team X wins. Ergo it must be because the refs, Bettman, the patriarchy, and the secret evil cabal of oligarchs that run the world wish it and benefit from it.

 

[LightningStrikes]

 

[BoltzManConstant]

On the one hand you are dismissive of the notion that a complex personality is any part of the kind of single minded dedication that Kuch appears to have and then a moment later acknowledge "complex interactions" that you might not want to mess with. Seems to me you're just arguing to argue. And not to put to fine a point on the line between on-ice wizardry and complex personalities, what's all the buzz around McKinnon these days? Is he too tightly wound, is he going to lose his cool in a big moment? Hmm, where have we seen such things occur before? But it is that very same thing that drives him. If he was more mellow would he be the player he is? Doubtful. Same for Kuch.

Just arguing to argue? The hell? It was my suggestion that you're on like a dog with a bone here.

You're conflating two entirely different comments. Comparing an athlete, in a team sport, to an artist is terrible for any purpose other than colorful metaphor. What makes an athlete great -- a capacity for driving, grinding repetition to perfection, in a way that exploits teammates while hampering competition has literally nothing to do with the creativity of, say, a painter.

That I recognize that all humans are complex systems and if you tweak one input you might get completely unexpected outputs has nothing to do with the former comment. But yes, I am acknowledging there's risk in my proposal -- risk that I asset is minimal. It's very, very unlikely that we'd "break" Kuch by giving him tools to push out of those modestly self-destructive loops, just like it didn't break Stammer for him to finally learn to dial it back a notch in the playoffs and not expect so damn much of himself -- in fact what prompted this whole discussion is reportage that that's what helped him to the postseason he's had.

Don't know what you're angling at with MacKinnon; all I know about him is he's the big star on the most heralded team out west, who somehow kept finding a way to lose in the 2nd round.

 

[UseYourHedman]

@BoltzManConstant @Bartleby

Do I need to put you two in timeout AKA watching a replay of game 2-6 of the ECF? It'll improve your mood

 

[Bartleby]

Just arguing to argue? The hell? It was my suggestion that you're on like a dog with a bone here.

You're conflating two entirely different comments. Comparing an athlete, in a team sport, to an artist is terrible for any purpose other than colorful metaphor. What makes an athlete great -- a capacity for driving, grinding repetition to perfection, in a way that exploits teammates while hampering competition has literally nothing to do with the creativity of, say, a painter.

That I recognize that all humans are complex systems and if you tweak one input you might get completely unexpected outputs has nothing to do with the former comment. But yes, I am acknowledging there's risk in my proposal -- risk that I asset is minimal. It's very, very unlikely that we'd "break" Kuch by giving him tools to push out of those modestly self-destructive loops, just like it didn't break Stammer for him to finally learn to dial it back a notch in the playoffs and not expect so damn much of himself -- in fact what prompted this whole discussion is reportage that that's what helped him to the postseason he's had.

Don't know what you're angling at with MacKinnon; all I know about him is he's the big star on the most heralded team out west, who somehow kept finding a way to lose in the 2nd round.

We have different perspectives on this and I doubt they will ever mesh. Let's just leave it alone.

Regarding McKinnon, I don't know if you were ever aware of the interview that Nikita Zadorov gave to a Russian journalist that found it's way into the hockey news here about a year ago but he made some fairly startling comments about how OCD McKinnon is (from Zadorov's POV, not mine). It got a lot of press at the time and on those occasions when McKinnon has a bit of meltdown on the ice it resurfaces. And now with COL having made the finals it has been a topic of discussion in some circles again. The general consensus that I have gleaned is that ultimately you don't mess with greatness. You may see things differently.

 

[Hedmonster Bolt]

Absolute dog shit that piece of shit scum Laf doesn’t even get a call. Not even a f***ing peep, but you know, refs favour Tampa!

Revenge is a dish best served cold, like say first meeting next season.

 

[Bartleby]

Absolute dog shit that piece of shit scum Laf doesn’t even get a call. Not even a f***ing peep, but you know, refs favour Tampa!

It was a terrible missed call but this isn't about the refs any more. This is on the league. That was as predatory a head hit as you are going to see and whether the refs called anything at the time or not or whether the league is distracted by it being SC Finals week or not there is no excuse for doing nothing.

 

[Skala24]

Corey enjoys the play-off ^^

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

HNIC going with an Arcade Fire song: The Lightning

Waiting on the lightning
Waiting on the lightning

Turned out to be a good omen