GDT: #56| Saturday, Feb 11 2017| Sharks at Flyers |1:00 p.m. ET| CSN| Flyers win 2-1 in OT

[Striiker]

As to his PP performance: in 71 PP minutes this season, has posted zero goals and zero primary assists.

On what planet is that acceptable for your 2C?

He is where offense goes to die

2C is a 5v5 position... it has nothing to do with PP...

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The snobby tone people take when defending this player is what's fascinating.

There is ample and growing evidence that he is nothing but a marginal middle six player.

He does look good in a spreadsheet, I'll grant you guys that.

The attitude on both sides of the Couturier debate is a chicken and the egg situation. It's the same as it was with Mason and Gostisbehere and Jeff Carter and Ron Hextall giving up the late goal in game 6 against the Devils and Dempsey vs Tunney. That you can't see this when you resort to the same thing -- I know, I know, you're a special snowflake who finishes his Brussel sprouts and would never start it only finish it *doubleguns* -- speaks toward your closed-mindedness to other ways of examining player worth.

The same points both for and against Couturier are repeated ad nauseum. I don't understand how anyone still thinks it's a conversation worth having. If you are only interested in points, you don't like him. If you're into possession metrics, you do. It's fine to disagree.

You now have the choice to be ok with people disagreeing and leave it alone or continue to stomp your feet because not everyone sees it your way and have people tell you why they think you're wrong. I know which I would choose.

P.S. Spreadsheets are fantastic and I will not stand for them being compared to something as subjective as hockey skill.

 

[Curufinwe]

2C is a 5v5 position... it has nothing to do with PP...

Provorov can't be a #1D because he's only scoring at 1.88 points/60 on the PP.

 

[Striiker]

Provorov can't be a #1D because he's only scoring at 1.88 points/60 on the PP.

On what planet is that acceptable for your 1D?

 

[Curufinwe]

The same planet where 40 or 50 games determine how a player will perform for the rest of their career. I call it Planet Moron.

 

[Striiker]

The same planet where 40 or 50 games determine how a player will perform for the rest of their career. I call it Planet Moron.

How about Planet WJC. <10 games decide if a player is a bust or not.

People are excited about Harts current play but they forget he's already a failure...

Same with Rubtsov.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The snobby tone people take when defending this player is what's fascinating.

There is ample and growing evidence that he is nothing but a marginal middle six player.

He does look good in a spreadsheet, I'll grant you guys that.

Middle six includes 2C or 3C. Which everyone here agrees he is. You're fabricating an issue that doesn't exist.

 

[Striiker]

Middle six includes 2C or 3C. Which everyone here agrees he is. You're fabricating an issue that doesn't exist.

I'm so sick of Couturier defenders saying he's already a starting goaltender... he's never shown he can be more than a backup...

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Personally, I don't understand the anger toward him - Couts is an extremely loveable character. And make no mistake, these posts criticizing him may be couched in cold logic, but there are all kinds of anger behind them. You can tell from the steam coming off the edges. Bottom line for me: he's an excellent hockey player, with or without points, and a great guy, with or without teeth. I'm not ashamed to blindly support him - that doesn't mean I'm missing anything that is going on.

 

[NYCFlyer]

Personally, I don't understand the anger toward him - Couts is an extremely loveable character. And make no mistake, these posts criticizing him may be couched in cold logic, but there are all kinds of anger behind them. You can tell from the steam coming off the edges. Bottom line for me: he's an excellent hockey player, with or without points, and a great guy, with or without teeth. I'm not ashamed to blindly support him - that doesn't mean I'm missing anything that is going on.

I think the anger you sense is from the general underperformance of the team in the 25 or so games since the streak. Couts is an excellent player but we need more from the center position up and down the lineup. Honestly most posters agree we need another center the only debate is where in the lineup. Of it would be great to add a true 1c but they are extremely hard to find and exceedingly expensive probably not worth the cost. People get hung up on labels of 2C or 3C but it only matters that they are productive and fit well with the style we want and the wingers we have.

 

[kudymen]

I'm so sick of Couturier defenders saying he's already a starting goaltender... he's never shown he can be more than a backup...

Also the gap between his teeth is one huge five hole. He should be traded before he busts as a second baseman




In all seriousness, "he is not a 2C, he is a middle six player" is my early favorite thing of the week

 

[Striiker]

Also the gap between his teeth is one huge five hole. He should be traded before he busts as a second baseman




In all seriousness, "he is not a 2C, he is a middle six player" is my early favorite thing of the week

The week is still young, plenty more silliness to be read.

 

[Cootsfanclub]

I think the anger you sense is from the general underperformance of the team in the 25 or so games since the streak. Couts is an excellent player but we need more from the center position up and down the lineup. Honestly most posters agree we need another center the only debate is where in the lineup. Of it would be great to add a true 1c but they are extremely hard to find and exceedingly expensive probably not worth the cost. People get hung up on labels of 2C or 3C but it only matters that they are productive and fit well with the style we want and the wingers we have.

Claude Giroux

 

[joez86]

The coaches effect is exaggerated. They're neither responsible for good individual play nor bad individual play. That said, they can certainly do harm by making stupid lineup decisions, which he has.

I agree 100%.

I have trouble picking whats more annoying to see: irrational "The coach sucks..." or irrational "Player X sucks..." rants/hatred. I guess I just can't stand how fickle the fanbase is, in general. The team loses a few games in a row and you'd swear the "fans" were dusting off their Penguins or Rangers gear.

 

[Striiker]

I agree 100%.

I have trouble picking whats more annoying to see: irrational "The coach sucks..." or irrational "Player X sucks..." rants/hatred. I guess I just can't stand how fickle the fanbase is, in general. The team loses a few games in a row and you'd swear the "fans" were dusting off their Penguins or Rangers gear.

There's a lot of great posters on here, but there's also a lot of very short sighted ones too. It gets annoying, especially in GDTs and PGTs.

 

[Delete99991]

The same planet where 40 or 50 games determine how a player will perform for the rest of their career. I call it Planet Moron.

Every single COOTS sycophant on here points to last season as irrefutable evidence that he's a wonderful two-way 2C.

You guys want your cake and to eat it too.

I have used nothing but straight, hard evidence to support my commentary on this guy. Keep sneering fellas. He'll continue to play boring, uninspired hockey for this team and they'll continue to fight for 8th every year.

 

[SuchySays]

I have used nothing but straight, hard evidence to support my commentary on this guy.

No, you haven't.

Not here or anywhere.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Every single COOTS sycophant on here points to last season as irrefutable evidence that he's a wonderful two-way 2C.

You guys want your cake and to eat it too.

I have used nothing but straight, hard evidence to support my commentary on this guy. Keep sneering fellas. He'll continue to play boring, uninspired hockey for this team and they'll continue to fight for 8th every year.

You seem triggered. Why the sheer hatred and rage over Couturier?

I mean, this might go beyond the Carter hate, where people would be disappointed when he scored goals.

 

[Striiker]

Every single COOTS sycophant on here points to last season as irrefutable evidence that he's a wonderful two-way 2C.

You guys want your cake and to eat it too.

I have used nothing but straight, hard evidence to support my commentary on this guy. Keep sneering fellas. He'll continue to play boring, uninspired hockey for this team and they'll continue to fight for 8th every year.

If you get this angry at being wrong then why not just stop being wrong?

 

[Flyrs21]

For all the....Giroux only scores on the power play trade him bandwagon:

40% of Girouxs career points have come on the pp, Ovechkin is at 39%, Crosby is 37%.

 

[Rebels57]

I agree 100%.

I have trouble picking whats more annoying to see: irrational "The coach sucks..." or irrational "Player X sucks..." rants/hatred. I guess I just can't stand how fickle the fanbase is, in general. The team loses a few games in a row and you'd swear the "fans" were dusting off their Penguins or Rangers gear.

The coach DOES suck and so do a lot of the players though.



I will stand by the guys that have earned it though. To me that is 28, 93, 17, 14, 9 and to lesser extents, 11, 10, 53, and even 35. Everyone else is fair game because they dont have the equity.

 

[Jtown]

Taken from another board


"Couturier is the 39th ranked center in the league in terms of TOI. Every single center close to him in TOI has more points and he is the 26th worst center in terms of points per minute. He has been brutal offensively."

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

You seem triggered. Why the sheer hatred and rage over Couturier?

I mean, this might go beyond the Carter hate, where people would be disappointed when he scored goals.

I think it is approaching that level.
Carter would get 2G and 1A and folks would say, other then the 2 points he got he was invisible. not enough grit and toughness I guess

 

[Beef Invictus]

Taken from another board


"Couturier is the 39th ranked center in the league in terms of TOI. Every single center close to him in TOI has more points and he is the 26th worst center in terms of points per minute. He has been brutal offensively."

It's almost like having an offensive system that relies on wingers fetching dump ins to tee up dmen is going to impact center production. Which fits with Giroux and Couts having an anomalous year.

 

[kudymen]

Taken from another board


"Couturier is the 39th ranked center in the league in terms of TOI. Every single center close to him in TOI has more points and he is the 26th worst center in terms of points per minute. He has been brutal offensively."

Disappeared from the board for a few years after making that ridiculous "40 games stretch" argument, only to return with this? Ughhhh