Post-Game Talk: #53 | Oilers at Flyers | February 9, 2023

[mr4tno]

This isn't a good team, but it's not a bad team.
I mean the PP is still dreadful, and so on.
But when was the last Flyer team that could actually skate with a fast team and not look like they were skating through molasses?
They checked hard, really used their sticks well to break up plays and take away passing lane.

Torts is honest about the team, this is only a first step, but it is a step forward.

And you can see the changes needed to play this style, replacing JVR and Hayes with Couts and Atkinson will be a step up.
Moving out Bellows and Deslauriers
Hiding TDA until you can dump him.

But the blueprint is also obvious, load up on two way forwards with speed who'll play 200 feet, Edmonton used their speed to create scoring chances, but the Flyer back check quickly shut them down.

Yes, they need more talent, and more depth. One reason they play so well on two days rest is the scheme demands a lot of skaters, and you want to limit the minutes of your top 6/top 4 during stretches where you don't have a lot of rest.

And yes, Cates and Frost look like they belong, still overmatched but no longer look like they shouldn't be on the ice when matched against other teams' top lines. Laughton is playing his best hockey as a center in his career. A weak spot isn't quite as weak.

Now if they could just find a top four RHD . . . .

This is the irony of the Flyers...their scheme demands a lot of skaters, yet they continually dress a 4th line that is barely AHL and play them 6-8 minutes a night (Brown did get 10 min last night which is even crazier)...

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Speaking of chicken, what on earth is Popeye's? They just opened one up here in town about two months ago, and when I was out running errands at lunch today, the drive-thru queue was so long and out on the main boulevard that it constantly blocks traffic. Been that way since they opened. Doesn't matter what time of day. Is it just KFC with a different name?

Popeyes is a southern fried chicken & biscuits chain that kept itself much simpler than KFC turned into.

Their chicken sandwich is extremely popular & the reason for the long drive-thru lines.

I will admit that sandwich is pretty damn solid for fast food.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If they were a bad team, they'd be in the running for Bedard, especially after trading G and losing Couts and Atkinson to injury.
That would cripple a bad team.

This is a mediocre team, lacks top end talent, but have a bunch of good young players carrying the load, Frost, Cates, Tippett, TK, Farabee, Allison, York, Sanheim. Need a half dozen more the next two years, including a couple who are top tier. But they have solid goaltending for years to come, and that's a good start.

Um, this team is crippled. They're deeply out of the playoffs. Half the league makes the playoffs. They're bad.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Are you saying the NHL is succeeding at business?

Its ratings & recent All-Star weekend reactions indicate otherwise.

Maybe these gimmicky “adaptations” are misguided.

Their failing ratings have nothing to do with shootouts or OT and everything to do with the new TV contract

 

[Beef Invictus]

How, though? What does that look like to you?

I agree there are some gimmicky things going on, chief among them the shootout.

But take that away, and I still find most Flyers games boring. Is that only because I'm a Flyers fan? It's been like this for a long time, btw. Definitely 10+ years at this point.

Are Avs fans enjoying all 82 games? Canes fans? Leafs fans?

Is the season too long? The NHL is talking about making it LONGER.

Half the fan bases have no reason to tune in by this point in the year.

I just saw a few highlights of the All-Star game, and everyone is just skating at half speed, the goalies barely even move. What's the point? If it's for adult fans, is that enjoyable? To see half their talent? If it's for kids, is that really what they want to see? I don't understand who the target audience is.

The NHL is trying to be something it's not by trying to appeal to an audience that isn't really interested in hockey. Do that long enough, and at some point, you lose sight of who you really are.

I'm down for dropping the season to 76 games. Make individual games matter a bit more.

The NHL is still very gate driven though, so that's not gonna happen, and as they make up revenue lost during COVID that's probably what has them eyeing a longer season.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Speaking of chicken, what on earth is Popeye's? They just opened one up here in town about two months ago, and when I was out running errands at lunch today, the drive-thru queue was so long and out on the main boulevard that it constantly blocks traffic. Been that way since they opened. Doesn't matter what time of day. Is it just KFC with a different name?

Cajun KFC. It's better. One just opened near me at the end of 2022, as well.

I had a hockey game in early December. The rink is about 20km from my house. We had a massive snow storm that night and I couldn't even get half way to the rink because of all the accidents. All told, I was on the road for 3.5 hours trying to get home. I was starving and the only thing open was this new Popeye's. Glad I stopped... was pretty good for fast food.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

The KFC here sucks. The food sucks and the service is worse. Can’t wait for Popeyes to open

 

[renberg]

How many times did various announcers proclaim in the earliest days of the post-lockout shootouts "Look at the fans, they are out of their seats." That should have been a wake-up call that the product was lax elsewhere. Start with too many games and teams and the obliteration of rivalries. But that staggering desire to reward teams for such losses with that marginally triumphant loser point was aesthetically nauseating. And now we have what at times is figure skating in OT. And a uniform-a-night promotion for a sport that once prided itself on "playing for the crest" which now is a meaningful as an 8-track. The League should be ashamed to end an All Star Game with this blasphemous drivel, yet it is wallowing in euphoria to promote it.

As a group, the owners do not care about the game. They’re in it to make a profit one way or the other. When Bettman was hired the hope was that he would bring to hockey the same degree of financial success that the NBA had when he was working there. To a degree, he has done that by enhancing the value of most franchises.
However from another perspective he has failed miserably. The League is still a niche sport. Franchise values have not grown at the rate of or even close to those in the NBA. TV revenues, while up from that of the past, lag behind other sports. Worst of all, the fan base has become apathetic. In many cities, the fan base has or is evaporating.
The future really looks grim for the League. When Crosby and Ovechkin retire, the star power in the game looks to be going with them. JMO but McDavid and Matthews, while being good players, just don’t have their flash.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Speaking of chicken, what on earth is Popeye's? They just opened one up here in town about two months ago, and when I was out running errands at lunch today, the drive-thru queue was so long and out on the main boulevard that it constantly blocks traffic. Been that way since they opened. Doesn't matter what time of day. Is it just KFC with a different name?

Popeye's >>> kfc

I'll take chic fil a over popeye's but some will disagree. I am a sucker for waffle fries.

 

[deadhead]

The problem with the NH is they overexpanded, and that meant too many franchises in cities with no real attachment to hockey, I mean Phoenix? It's always going to be a niche sport b/c how many High Schools have hockey teams? Especially south of the Mason-Dixon line. Where in the US can you play hockey in the winter without an expensive rink?

What they should have done is some good market research, identified the best cities, refrain from expanding to the point that you water down the product, and focus on maximizing revenues from your teams over the long haul.

 

[Beef Invictus]

As a group, the owners do not care about the game. They’re in it to make a profit one way or the other. When Bettman was hired the hope was that he would bring to hockey the same degree of financial success that the NBA had when he was working there. To a degree, he has done that by enhancing the value of most franchises.
However from another perspective he has failed miserably. The League is still a niche sport. Franchise values have not grown at the rate of or even close to those in the NBA. TV revenues, while up from that of the past, lag behind other sports. Worst of all, the fan base has become apathetic. In many cities, the fan base has or is evaporating.
The future really looks grim for the League. When Crosby and Ovechkin retire, the star power in the game looks to be going with them. JMO but McDavid and Matthews, while being good players, just don’t have their flash.

McDavid definitely has more flash than Crosby.

The problem with them is they're on Canadian teams, and are this immediately irrelevant to the US media.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The problem with the NH is they overexpanded, and that meant too many franchises in cities with no real attachment to hockey, I mean Phoenix? It's always going to be a niche sport b/c how many High Schools have hockey teams? Especially south of the Mason-Dixon line. Where in the US can you play hockey in the winter without an expensive rink?

What they should have done is some good market research, identified the best cities, refrain from expanding to the point that you water down the product, and focus on maximizing revenues from your teams over the long haul.

Expanding to Phoenix did maximize their revenue. Maintaining teams in Arizona and outside Miami when they're often in dire straits is in the league's interest because they get to claim access to those markets when making TV deals.

The expansion to LV likely opens the possibility of relocating the Yotes where before it wouldn't have been considered.

But I wouldn't expect them to relocate north. They'd probably take another try at Atlanta or that region.

 

[JXC]

3 on 3 was fun when first introduced and I enjoyed it initially. Now teams play it safe instead of the high stakes gambling we saw at first and it's lost its luster. Skate into the zone, no lane, take the puck back to neutral, skate back in, take a shot, other team gets possession and repeats the cycle.

They should adjust it somehow. Like maybe once you possess inside the others teams zone you cannot cross back into your own half.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They should adjust it somehow. Like maybe once you possess inside the others teams zone you cannot cross back into your own half.

I would bet this results in teams being even
more reluctant to enter the zone unless conditions are perfect

 

[renberg]

McDavid definitely has more flash than Crosby.

The problem with them is they're on Canadian teams, and are this immediately irrelevant to the US media.

The Penguins were able to create a SC winner around Crosby. The Oilers haven’t been able to do that with McDavid. Maybe the League made Crosby larger than life and they haven’t given McDavid the same treatment? I just don’t get the feel of there being a face of the NHL player in today’s game with McDavid or Matthews as there has been with Crosby or Gretzky before him.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The Penguins were able to create a SC winner around Crosby. The Oilers haven’t been able to do that with McDavid. Maybe the League made Crosby larger than life and they haven’t given McDavid the same treatment? I just don’t get the feel of there being a face of the NHL player in today’s game with McDavid or Matthews as there has been with Crosby or Gretzky before him.

Definitely not as facey as those two, but they were helped by US media getting on board with that.

 

[wasup]

Their failing ratings have nothing to do with shootouts or OT and everything to do with the new TV contract

I read an real in article the other day on the ratings . They said a lot of the drop comes from the ESPN blacking out the regions in which the teams that are playing are from . If I can find it again I will post it here as it was quite good .

 

[Beef Invictus]

I read an real in article the other day on the ratings . They said a lot of the drop comes from the ESPN blacking out the regions in which the teams that are playing are from . If I can find it again I will post it here as it was quite good .

It's a phenomenally idiotic arrangement for everyone involved.

 

[renberg]

Definitely not as facey as those two, but they were helped by US media getting on board with that.

Perhaps Bettman et al should get out there and package McDavid like they did others in the past. He seems like an easy enough guy to promote.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Perhaps Bettman et al should get out there and package McDavid like they did others in the past. He seems like an easy enough guy to promote.

I think it's something ESPN and such should be doing. The fact that he plays on West Coast time is a bit of a problem too. MLB has hit the same obstacles with Ohtani; playing for a team nobody cares about at a time most in the country aren't gonna watch.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Apparently the ASG rated better than the skills stuff in Canada, and usually it's the other way around. The NHL really needs to do a better job with making the skills competition less painful to watch.

It's the typical corporate issue that they feel they need to making changes and add things to "bring in new fans" but really it's so execs can point to something as justification of their jobs.

The net result is usually a worse product and lost consumers as a result.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

The Penguins were able to create a SC winner around Crosby. The Oilers haven’t been able to do that with McDavid. Maybe the League made Crosby larger than life and they haven’t given McDavid the same treatment? I just don’t get the feel of there being a face of the NHL player in today’s game with McDavid or Matthews as there has been with Crosby or Gretzky before him.

Olympic hockey with NHLers had to have had a big impact on creating more star power. The NHL not being away from the Olympics for so long is beyond stupid.

 

[gertbfrobe16]

I think it's something ESPN and such should be doing. The fact that he plays on West Coast time is a bit of a problem too. MLB has hit the same obstacles with Ohtani; playing for a team nobody cares about at a time most in the country aren't gonna watch.

espn is all about basketball, they market Le Bron alot.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Olympic hockey with NHLers had to have had a big impact on creating more star power. The NHL not being away from the Olympics for so long is beyond stupid.

I think something like half the hockey fans I've met got into it because of the Olympics.

 

[Beef Invictus]

espn is all about basketball, they market Le Bron alot.

Which was understandable when the NHL was a competitor, but they're in on it now too. You'd think they'd be making some effort to get more out of it.