Post-Game Talk: #53 | Oilers at Flyers | February 9, 2023

[dragonoffrost]

I remember a decade ago when a game like this was sub-par. They don't realize it, but their unbridled enthusiasm here shows how far the management they adore has wrecked things.

A decade ago I'd have been walking out of the arena saying Holy f*** they stole that game.

Last night I walked out of a bar laughing....

 

[macleish1974]

This team is beyond annoying.

More like the Twilight Zone........

 

[kudymen]

Also love the irony of "dzheeezus they are making victory laps around Hextall prospects... ... ... ... such a great game in February, team is not dead last woooooooooooo"

 

[Ghosts Beer]

How many times did various announcers proclaim in the earliest days of the post-lockout shootouts "Look at the fans, they are out of their seats." That should have been a wake-up call that the product was lax elsewhere. Start with too many games and teams and the obliteration of rivalries. But that staggering desire to reward teams for such losses with that marginally triumphant loser point was aesthetically nauseating. And now we have what at times is figure skating in OT. And a uniform-a-night promotion for a sport that once prided itself on "playing for the crest" which now is a meaningful as an 8-track. The League should be ashamed to end an All Star Game with this blasphemous drivel, yet it is wallowing in euphoria to promote it.

I completely concur on all of the above. Well stated.

 

[landsbergfan]

This you or @landsbergfan?

Hahaha. Wasn’t me but respect to that guy

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

McDavid just got a taste of playing in the playoffs against a John Tortorella team. Failed the test. This is why high end players ackshuyally don't matter, and the Flyers can win on sheer 3rd line depth alone.

(This will all be in the post-game novel).

Plus a bunch of useless advanced stats, even though said novelist has said on numerous occasions that they 'don't' believe in advanced stats.....

 

[Beef Invictus]

3 point system. Tie if 3v3 fails.

I think @MiamiScreamingEagles is right that the game was ill in other ways, hence the initial enthusiasm for the shootout. A lot of those problems have since been addressed and the SO is an obnoxious method to decide games.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

3 on 3 was fun when first introduced and I enjoyed it initially. Now teams play it safe instead of the high stakes gambling we saw at first and it's lost its luster. Skate into the zone, no lane, take the puck back to neutral, skate back in, take a shot, other team gets possession and repeats the cycle.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Hart made a confident-inducing save right after surrendering the goal. That was a good moment.

Yes, it was huge.

 

[deadhead]

This isn't a good team, but it's not a bad team.
I mean the PP is still dreadful, and so on.
But when was the last Flyer team that could actually skate with a fast team and not look like they were skating through molasses?
They checked hard, really used their sticks well to break up plays and take away passing lane.

Torts is honest about the team, this is only a first step, but it is a step forward.

And you can see the changes needed to play this style, replacing JVR and Hayes with Couts and Atkinson will be a step up.
Moving out Bellows and Deslauriers
Hiding TDA until you can dump him.

But the blueprint is also obvious, load up on two way forwards with speed who'll play 200 feet, Edmonton used their speed to create scoring chances, but the Flyer back check quickly shut them down.

Yes, they need more talent, and more depth. One reason they play so well on two days rest is the scheme demands a lot of skaters, and you want to limit the minutes of your top 6/top 4 during stretches where you don't have a lot of rest.

And yes, Cates and Frost look like they belong, still overmatched but no longer look like they shouldn't be on the ice when matched against other teams' top lines. Laughton is playing his best hockey as a center in his career. A weak spot isn't quite as weak.

Now if they could just find a top four RHD . . . .

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I’m just sick of gimmicks.

Hockey is a great sport. It’s also a niche sport.

Stop trying to drum up interest in non & casual fans with gimmicks & rule changes.

Allow hockey to breathe in its natural, non-artificial essence.

You’ll keep the lifelong fans, & gain fans who are drawn to the game in its pure state. The latter are more likely to become lifelong fans than those responding to gimmicks.

Those who don’t like it have plenty of other options.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This isn't a good team, but it's not a bad team.
I mean the PP is still dreadful, and so on.
But when was the last Flyer team that could actually skate with a fast team and not look like they were skating through molasses?
They checked hard, really used their sticks well to break up plays and take away passing lane.

Torts is honest about the team, this is only a first step, but it is a step forward.

And you can see the changes needed to play this style, replacing JVR and Hayes with Couts and Atkinson will be a step up.
Moving out Bellows and Deslauriers
Hiding TDA until you can dump him.

But the blueprint is also obvious, load up on two way forwards with speed who'll play 200 feet, Edmonton used their speed to create scoring chances, but the Flyer back check quickly shut them down.

Yes, they need more talent, and more depth. One reason they play so well on two days rest is the scheme demands a lot of skaters, and you want to limit the minutes of your top 6/top 4 during stretches where you don't have a lot of rest.

And yes, Cates and Frost look like they belong, still overmatched but no longer look like they shouldn't be on the ice when matched against other teams' top lines. Laughton is playing his best hockey as a center in his career. A weak spot isn't quite as weak.

Now if they could just find a top four RHD . . . .

No they're definitely a bad team

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Bring back ties. No OT or shootout. Just end the game in regulation.

Overtime should be for playoffs only and shootouts should be gone altogether.

2 points for a regulation win zero for the loser. 1 point for an over time win zero for the loser. 0 points award if the game ends in a tie after 5 minutes of 5v5. No shootouts.

Make risk taking and aggressive play valuable, make playing safe worthless.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I’m just sick of gimmicks.

Hockey is a great sport. It’s also a niche sport.

Stop trying to drum up interest in non & casual fans with gimmicks & rule changes.

Allow hockey to breathe in its natural, non-artificial essence.

You’ll keep the lifelong fans, & gain fans who are drawn to the game in its pure state. The latter are more likely to become lifelong fans than those responding to gimmicks.

Those who don’t like it have plenty of other options.

You’re a failing business then.

Adapt or die.

The world wasn’t made solely for what you enjoy.

 

[deadhead]

If they were a bad team, they'd be in the running for Bedard, especially after trading G and losing Couts and Atkinson to injury.
That would cripple a bad team.

This is a mediocre team, lacks top end talent, but have a bunch of good young players carrying the load, Frost, Cates, Tippett, TK, Farabee, Allison, York, Sanheim. Need a half dozen more the next two years, including a couple who are top tier. But they have solid goaltending for years to come, and that's a good start.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

A bottom third team is "mediocre" and not bad?

There are teams actively tanking for Bedard, which the Flyers decided not to do. They're in the next class of bad. It's not about what they may be in the future; they're bad today.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You’re a failing business then.

Adapt or die.

The world wasn’t made solely for what you enjoy.

Are you saying the NHL is succeeding at business?

Its ratings & recent All-Star weekend reactions indicate otherwise.

Maybe these gimmicky “adaptations” are misguided.

 

[Curufinwe]

3 on 3 was fun when first introduced and I enjoyed it initially. Now teams play it safe instead of the high stakes gambling we saw at first and it's lost its luster. Skate into the zone, no lane, take the puck back to neutral, skate back in, take a shot, other team gets possession and repeats the cycle.

They should make a rule that you can take the puck back into your own zone.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Are you saying the NHL is succeeding at business?

Its ratings & recent All-Star weekend reactions indicate otherwise.

Maybe these gimmicky “adaptations” are misguided.

I’m saying that the NHL is attempting to appeal to new customers. They must do that to survive. The Flyers fanbase and importantly their STH’s are literally dying off. That needs to be replaced.

All All-Star games are dying. It’s not just the NHL that is suffering from that. Are the decisions that they have made good ones? No not really.

 

[flyersnorth]

I’m just sick of gimmicks.

Hockey is a great sport. It’s also a niche sport.

Stop trying to drum up interest in non & casual fans with gimmicks & rule changes.

Allow hockey to breathe in its natural, non-artificial essence.

You’ll keep the lifelong fans, & gain fans who are drawn to the game in its pure state. The latter are more likely to become lifelong fans than those responding to gimmicks.

Those who don’t like it have plenty of other options.

How, though? What does that look like to you?

I agree there are some gimmicky things going on, chief among them the shootout.

But take that away, and I still find most Flyers games boring. Is that only because I'm a Flyers fan? It's been like this for a long time, btw. Definitely 10+ years at this point.

Are Avs fans enjoying all 82 games? Canes fans? Leafs fans?

Is the season too long? The NHL is talking about making it LONGER.

Half the fan bases have no reason to tune in by this point in the year.

I just saw a few highlights of the All-Star game, and everyone is just skating at half speed, the goalies barely even move. What's the point? If it's for adult fans, is that enjoyable? To see half their talent? If it's for kids, is that really what they want to see? I don't understand who the target audience is.

The NHL is trying to be something it's not by trying to appeal to an audience that isn't really interested in hockey. Do that long enough, and at some point, you lose sight of who you really are.

 

[Curufinwe]

Apparently the ASG rated better than the skills stuff in Canada, and usually it's the other way around. The NHL really needs to do a better job with making the skills competition less painful to watch.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The NHL is trying to be something it's not by trying to appeal to an audience that isn't really interested in hockey. Do that long enough, and at some point, you lose sight of who you really are.

And this is my point, as well.

The NHL has always been a niche sport, & it is losing itself by misguidedly trying to appeal to an audience that is unlikely to ever become devoted hockey fans.

So now it doesn’t even have an identity.

It’s a watered down product with too many expansion teams & teams in non-hockey cities; too many gimmicks (from shootouts to 3-on-3 to 10 different uniforms); & a lack of hard-hitting & intensity that was once its calling card.

Fans who don’t like the basic identity of hockey have a plethora of other sports options that better fit their interests. Hell, major league soccer is gaining hard on the NHL in US popularity, & obviously basketball is huge.

Fans who are drawn to the basic identity of hockey are losing the interest they had. And casual fans who are intrigued by hockey’s reputation aren’t seeing anything like that reputation if they decide to watch.

I read an article today about how Kentucky Fried Chicken is going back to basics & reducing its menu in an effort to rebuild its brand. Business had suffered from trying to cater to too wide of an audience, which caused it to lose what it was good at.

Now they are refocusing on fried chicken. If you want fried chicken, come to KFC, & we’ll satisfy that craving. And you’ll return when you crave it again. We’ll get back to what we’re known for. If you want something else, go somewhere else that does it better. Where you probably ended up going to anyway after trying our expanded menu a couple times.

 

[flyersnorth]

And this is my point, as well.

The NHL has always been a niche sport, & it is losing itself by misguidedly trying to appeal to an audience that is unlikely to ever become devoted hockey fans.

So now it doesn’t even have an identity.

It’s a watered down product with too many expansion teams & teams in non-hockey cities; too many gimmicks (from shootouts to 3-on-3 to 10 different uniforms); & a lack of hard-hitting & intensity that was once its calling card.

Fans who don’t like the basic identity of hockey have a plethora of other sports options that better fit their interests. Hell, major league soccer is gaining hard on the NHL in US popularity, & obviously basketball is huge.

Fans who are drawn to the basic identity of hockey are losing the interest they had. And casual fans who are intrigued by hockey’s reputation aren’t seeing anything like that reputation if they decide to watch.

I read an article today about how Kentucky Fried Chicken is going back to basics & reducing its menu in an effort to rebuild its brand. Business had suffered from trying to cater to too wide of an audience, which caused it to lose what it was good at.

Now they are refocusing on fried chicken. If you want fried chicken, come to KFC, & we’ll satisfy that craving. And you’ll return when you crave it again. We’ll get back to what we’re known for. If you want something else, go somewhere else that does it better. Where you probably ended up going to anyway after trying our expanded menu a couple times.

Speaking of chicken, what on earth is Popeye's? They just opened one up here in town about two months ago, and when I was out running errands at lunch today, the drive-thru queue was so long and out on the main boulevard that it constantly blocks traffic. Been that way since they opened. Doesn't matter what time of day. Is it just KFC with a different name?

 

[Canfly]

Glad that McDavid and Draisatle didn't do anything last night. I'm going to the Edmonton - Ottawa game tomorrow so hopefully they put on a show then.

To bad we are wasting Hart with this team though. Another good game. seems like they need .940 save % or better to win.

 

[mr4tno]

3 on 3 was fun when first introduced and I enjoyed it initially. Now teams play it safe instead of the high stakes gambling we saw at first and it's lost its luster. Skate into the zone, no lane, take the puck back to neutral, skate back in, take a shot, other team gets possession and repeats the cycle.

How about 3v3 with a shot clock. Might create more attack zone time and reduce SOs