Post-Game Talk: #51| FLYERS 1 at Hurricanes 5 | Tuesday, January 31, 2017|

[Striiker]

One reason teams never get above mediocre is they keep firing coaches - you get a short term bump with the next coach (even Berube!), then talent will out.

Most of the complaints about Hakstol are so nitpicking as to be asinine, gee why doesn't Giroux play on the PK? Well, he's lost a stride, gets pushed around and is down 2 minutes a game to save his legs, so why would you put him on the PK and take him off ES? Gee, why does VdV play? Because Laughton and Leier didn't take his job! Gee, why does MacDonald play so much? Because the alternatives are dreck.

The real problem is the talent doesn't fit Hakstol's scheme.
Now, do you really think:
1) Hextall hired him without knowing what scheme Hakstol would run?
2) Hextall didn't know the talent on his own team?
3) Hextall was too dumb to know it wasn't a good short-run fit?

Of course, Hextall didn't expect his goalies to go belly up.

But you don't have to be a rocket scientist to think that Hakstol wasn't hired to win now, Hextall wanted a coach for the prospects he was bringing up, and not the veterans who've been at the core of a mediocre team for five years.

Which suggests to me that if this team doesn't play better, Hextall is more likely to move some of the core players than change coaches - after three coaches you start questioning whether you have the right players.

As usual you prove that you don't have a clue. The entire bolded is embarrassing.

I have no clue why you even attempt to be an apologist and defend him by saying incorrect stuff.. as if people won't notice or something? Nearly every observation you make is blatantly incorrect. Gudas is slow, Simmonds is slow, etc etc etc.

Just stop.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Most of the complaints about Hakstol are so nitpicking as to be asinine, gee why doesn't Giroux play on the PK? Well, he's lost a stride, gets pushed around and is down 2 minutes a game to save his legs, so why would you put him on the PK and take him off ES? Gee, why does VdV play? Because Laughton and Leier didn't take his job! Gee, why does MacDonald play so much? Because the alternatives are dreck.

Deadhead is spot on here.

You've got a lot of people laying the heft of the blame on Hakstol based on his deployment of fungible 4th liners who get 10 minutes per game, while putting on a full-court defense of their favorite bigger name players who are underperforming (Giroux, Couturier, Ghost) and glossing over the fact that the Flyers have had bottom-2 in the NHL goaltending throughout the entire season.

Blaming the coach is the easy way out, because it protects you from owning up to the possibility that, just maybe, you overrated the talent of the players on the team.

 

[deadhead]

Have you watched Giroux play this year? Have you seen all the bad stick penalties he takes because he can't catch up to the play and hooks and trips people? He was once a fiesty little guy, now he avoids contact. There's no way I want him on the PK other than to take a key faceoff, then get him off the ice.

And yes, Leier got a ten game cameo and did squat. Laughton got a year and a half and forced a demotion because of bad defensive play. Gordon woke up one day and discovered he was old. Manning and MDZ played their way out of minutes.

VdV and MacDonald are the best options - which tells you all you need to know about how bad our depth is this season.

 

[Striiker]

Deadhead is spot on here.

You've got a lot of people laying the heft of the blame on Hakstol based on his deployment of fungible 4th liners who get 10 minutes per game, while putting on a full-court defense of their favorite bigger name players who are underperforming (Giroux, Couturier, Ghost) and glossing over the fact that the Flyers have had bottom-2 in the NHL goaltending throughout the entire season.

Blaming the coach is the easy way out, because it protects you from owning up to the possibility that, just maybe, you overrated the talent of the players on the team.

As usual, wrong.

The coach can be to blame for some things and the players for other things, it's not exclusively one or the other.

The players are at fault AND so is the coach. His job is to do his best to help the team win, he is non-debatably failing there.

But go ahead and create more dishonest arguments, pretending that it has to be one or the other and people are saying the players aren't to blame. I guess that makes it easier for you two but unfortunately that's not reality

 

[Johnk0728]

Have you watched Giroux play this year? Have you seen all the bad stick penalties he takes because he can't catch up to the play and hooks and trips people? He was once a fiesty little guy, now he avoids contact. There's no way I want him on the PK other than to take a key faceoff, then get him off the ice.

And yes, Leier got a ten game cameo and did squat. Laughton got a year and a half and forced a demotion because of bad defensive play. Gordon woke up one day and discovered he was old. Manning and MDZ played their way out of minutes.

VdV and MacDonald are the best options - which tells you all you need to know about how bad our depth is this season.

These points make some sense....but the coach still looks like he is in over his head in the NHL.

 

[deadhead]

The reality is this is the same team it has been for five years, when they get good goalie play they're competitive, without it they're bottom ten.
Goalie GF/GA
2012-13 .905% 9th/22nd
2013-14 .912% 9th/20th
2014-15 .914% 22nd/24th
2015-16 .920% 22nd/15th
2016-17 .899% 11th/27th

They've had bad defenses for a while, that's talent, when you have 3 different coaches and the same outcome, check the players. When was the last time they had a solid 3rd pair, or even a solid 2nd pair?

Good goalie play covered up bad talent for a couple years, now the condors have come home to roost.

 

[deadhead]

My attitude on Hakstol is the same as it was with Brown on the Sixers, give the man some real players and then find out if he can coach.

 

[1865]

No, you're not. Hakstol was given a 5 year deal with every expectation he would see it out.

Hiring an unproven coach who needed to learn the NHL game clearly meant Hextall was looking down the road, not just at the next two seasons.

It's all well and good giving him 5 years but he really needs to show some buds of improvement and nothing that's happened shows me this is happening.

 

[Rebels57]

My attitude on Hakstol is the same as it was with Brown on the Sixers, give the man some real players and then find out if he can coach.

He'll scratch them.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

As usual, wrong.

The coach can be to blame for some things and the players for other things, it's not exclusively one or the other.

The players are at fault AND so is the coach. His job is to do his best to help the team win, he is non-debatably failing there.

But go ahead and create more dishonest arguments, pretending that it has to be one or the other and people are saying the players aren't to blame. I guess that makes it easier for you two but unfortunately that's not reality

Please. Talk about dishonest.

The bolded part of deadhead's argument which you labeled "embarrassing" and proof that he "doesn't have a clue" was merely pointing out obvious areas where players were largely at fault instead of the coach, and you couldn't even acknowledge that. And now you're trying to act like you are the bastion of objectivity in spreading the blame across coaches and players.

By the way, nowhere did I argue or imply blame was binary between coaches and players -- that's a hell of a straw man response, as is your wont.

I simply agree with deadhead that many posters are placing the majority of the blame on the coach; that these posters are doing so in a nitpicking way, such as how he deploys 4th liners, PKers, and shuffles the deck chairs on a pathetic blueline, while the same posters largely defend underperforming favorites like Giroux, Ghost, and Couturier (and blame their poor play on the coach and the system); and I believe putting the majority of the blame on the coach is the easy way out, because it protects against questioning one's own possible misjudgment of the talent level of the team.

 

[Hiesenberg]

He'll scratch them.

Precisely. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt because Hextall kept trash players up here, but now he's going out of his way to play bad ones over good ones. I don't care how bad of a season either Ghost/Konecny are having, they are better and give a better chance.

The defense tonight WILL BE the worst defense in the NHL, it was borderline the worst, now it is the worse.

 

[Striiker]

Please. Talk about dishonest.

The bolded part of deadhead's argument which you labeled "embarrassing" and proof that he "doesn't have a clue" was merely pointing out obvious areas where players were largely at fault instead of the coach, and you couldn't even acknowledge that. And now you're trying to act like you are the bastion of objectivity in spreading the blame across coaches and players.

By the way, nowhere did I argue the blame was binary between coaches and players -- that's a hell of a straw man response, as is your wont.

I simply agree with deadhead that many posters are placing the majority of the blame on the coach; that these posters are doing so in a nitpicking way, such as how he deploys 4th liners, PKers, and shuffles the deck chairs on a pathetic blueline, while largely defending underperforming favorites like Giroux, Ghost, and Couturier (and blaming their poor play on the coach and the system); and that putting the majority of the blame on the coach is the easy way out, because it protects against questioning one's own possible misjudgment of the talent level of the team.

Holy ****, I really need to spell this out for you? It's not that hard.

The individual player playing like **** is the players fault... KEEPING THEM IN THE LINEUP AND OVERUSING THEM IS THE COACHES FAULT. He chooses to keep certain players in the lineup and he chooses to give them as much time as they currently get. That's on him and it hurts the team. There are better options available, and that's before he screws up by healthy scratching guys like Ghost and Konecny, who on their worst days are still better than their replacements.

 

[deadhead]

Does anyone really think Ghost is playing better than the other dreck defensemen right now, 1 ES point in his last 13 games? From a guy who's game is offense?

Benching Konency is a wake up call, can't be sloppy. It's also a way to give him a night off while providing a teaching moment, because given his size, I don't think Hakstoll wants him playing 80 games as a rookie. It's not like he's on fire either.

Now I'd bench Giroux instead of Konecny if I wanted to send a message to the team, but they're kinda short on centers.

 

[deadhead]

Holy ****, I really need to spell this out for you? It's not that hard.

The individual player playing like **** is the players fault... KEEPING THEM IN THE LINEUP AND OVERUSING THEM IS THE COACHES FAULT. He chooses to keep certain players in the lineup and he chooses to give them as much time as they currently get. That's on him and it hurts the team. There are better options available, and that's before he screws up by healthy scratching guys like Ghost and Konecny, who on their worst days are still better than their replacements.

Who is being overused.
VdV at 10 minutes a night?
MacDonald instead of Manning?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Holy ****, I really need to spell this out for you? It's not that hard.

The individual player playing like **** is the players fault... KEEPING THEM IN THE LINEUP AND OVERUSING THEM IS THE COACHES FAULT. He chooses to keep certain players in the lineup and he chooses to give them as much time as they currently get. That's on him and it hurts the team. There are better options available, and that's before he screws up by healthy scratching guys like Ghost and Konecny, who on their worst days are still better than their replacements.

You seem unable to grasp that I understand the complaints about Hakstol you constantly attempt to make; I just agree with deadhead that most of them are nitpicky and there are much bigger reasons for the team's struggles.

 

[BillDineen]

Who is being overused.
VdV at 10 minutes a night?
MacDonald instead of Manning?

Flyers have the tightest differential between first and seventh d on their team in ES toi in the ENTIRE league. Hakstol basically just rolls pairs. He should very times more between those that are actually competent and the rest of our borderline NHl caliber D.

 

[Striiker]

Who is being overused.
VdV at 10 minutes a night?
MacDonald instead of Manning?

Yes, those are two people being overused. Horribly so.

VDV and Bellemare as the 1st PK unit.

MacDonald is 2ND MOST ON THE TEAM IN TOI PER GAME.

Neither VDV or MacDonald should be in the lineup when there's other healthy options anyway.

 

[Striiker]

You seem unable to grasp that I understand the complaints about Hakstol you constantly attempt to make; I just agree with deadhead that most of them are nitpicky and there are much bigger reasons for the team's struggles.

They aren't nitpicky, they're signs that he isn't capable of recognizing talent or actually holding players accountable.

Those are issues that will continue in the future... he's not going to magically take his head out of his ass.

 

[hatcher]

Hitch didn't go crazy on young players in St Louis like this. Hire Hitch and down Hak right now. Hexy besides drafting isn't much better either. Product sucks and the youth is what makes it fun to watch even though Konecny and Ghost are having a tough time.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hitch didn't go crazy on young players in St Louis like this. Hire Hitch and down Hak right now. Hexy besides drafting isn't much better either. Product sucks and the youth is what makes it fun to watch even though Konecny and Ghost are having a tough time.

Considering how much you complain about the current team, I can't wait to see how much you'd complain about a no-offense Hitch system.

 

[hatcher]

Considering how much you complain about the current team, I can't wait to see how much you'd complain about a no-offense Hitch system.

Tons of offence but the team has to score. His system rocks and high quality shots everywhere but the blues only have one real sniper type. Hitch would have brought a cup here if half our d wasn't ****ed up. Loved that coach in Kamloops and in Dallas. Sharp breakouts and hard to play against with hard checking.

 

[1865]

Does anyone really think Ghost is playing better than the other dreck defensemen right now, 1 ES point in his last 13 games? From a guy who's game is offense?

I'm gonna trust the numbers. His on-ice shooting % is ridiculously low, both for him and linemates. If he carries on playing as he does, the points will come.

 

[kudymen]

Lets get Cechmanek too

 

[deadhead]

Flyers have the tightest differential between first and seventh d on their team in ES toi in the ENTIRE league. Hakstol basically just rolls pairs. He should very times more between those that are actually competent and the rest of our borderline NHl caliber D.

How many minutes a night is Provorov playing? 22:26 a night since December 1.
Gudas is the only other competent defenseman this year. 19:54 since January 1, less in December when he was dinged.
MacDonald 20:21 in January, 20:42 in December.

As far as the rest, peas in a pod, including Ghost.
Or you want to see more of Mandog?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Yes, those are two people being overused. Horribly so.

VDV and Bellemare as the 1st PK unit.

MacDonald is 2ND MOST ON THE TEAM IN TOI PER GAME.

Neither VDV or MacDonald should be in the lineup when there's other healthy options anyway.

I agree on the PK unit and overall play of VdV and PEB. it needs to end. like yesterday.

As far as over playing AMAC it sucks. no doubt, but what are the options? Manning? Streit? MDZ? all those guys have had major issues this year. Putting Ghost with Provorov would be great IF there was something good to fall back on after that. Maybe Gudas, but even he has been pretty meh at times this year.