Post-Game Talk: #50 | FLYERS at Capitals | Wed., Jan. 31, 2018, 8:00 pm ET

[LegionOfDoom91]

Minutes aren't punched into a machine ahead of the game -- maybe Hakstol does -- so the notion that Sanheim or someone else wouldn't have a significant impact on the game playing Manning's minutes is silly. If a player is having a good game, most coaches will put them on more. And, as Harhis said, 12 minutes can be significant if goals were prevented in those 12 minutes.

The same goes for Goulbourne or anyone. His minutes are limited because he doesn't deserve more. Having someone with some hockey acumen flying around the ice creating chances will prompt more use.

Sadly, I think you are right about veteran playing time, in the sense that players like Lehtera and Filppula get regular minutes because they are 'owed' it in Dave Hakstol's mind. As for the veterans who contribute positively to this line-up, I side with Curu about seeing a positive with replacing underachievers with higher-upside youngsters.

It doesn’t matter, smaller things can’t add up.

 

[BernieParent]

It doesn’t matter, smaller things can’t add up.

I know. While we mere mortals think hockey on a fluid plane, Dave Hakstol is more a quantum mechanics thinker. You are always or never playing. You are a 20+-minute player or a 10-minute player. No in-between moves for, like, really stable geniuses.

 

[Foggy14]

Also, for a "slow" player who "can't skate", Patrick sure looked quick here...

Quick hands and a quick brain.

The straight line speed deficit is still noticeable, but less so than earlier in the year. Based on other injury comparables, he should be much improved by next season.

 

[Striiker]

Wasn't all Neuvy, first goal obviously was on him but I don't thing there was other softies. He did not play well but we did not lose because of him.

Manning did only play 12 minutes. He still he managed to **** up numerous times and cost us 2 goals against.
Maybe Sanheim (or any other hockey player for that matter) wouldn't give up those breakaways for example so you wouldn't have to blame our goalie for Manning's mistakes.

They moved Voracek away from G and Coots before TK moved to first line.

Yep, Neuvirth played horrible but Manning was equally as bad, if not worse, at his job. The blame is on both.

All he's proving is what was obvious all along... he doesn't belong on the ice, no matter how low his icetime is. He'll find a way to lose us games even if he plays two minutes per night, while never helping us win.

If Sanheim had that same game there would be a meltdown from certain posters. But since it was Manning, every weak excuse is made for why it isn't his fault or Hakstols fault. Fact is, it's both.

And what you said about the top line is also true. Konecny didn't replace Voracek. Simmonds replaced Voracek and then Konecny replaced Simmonds. Putting him on the top line was something myself and many others called for since game 1... and this is exactly why. His skillset is a perfect fit there, to get the most out of him and his linemates. Wasting him in the bottom 6 with horrible linemates was an indefensible thing to do and the potential offensive contribution that was wasted can easily be blamed for multiple games lost, just like if we took away any of the other top players scoring. An extra goal here or there could be the difference between the playoffs or the lottery. Yet another strike in the long list against Hakstol.

 

[BernieParent]

Yep, Neuvirth played horrible but Manning was equally as bad, if not worse, at his job. The blame is on both.

All he's proving is what was obvious all along... he doesn't belong on the ice, no matter how low his icetime is. He'll find a way to lose us games even if he plays two minutes per night, while never helping us win.

If Sanheim had that same game there would be a meltdown from certain posters. But since it was Manning, every weak excuse is made for why it isn't his fault or Hakstols fault. Fact is, it's both.

And what you said about the top line is also true. Konecny didn't replace Voracek. Simmonds replaced Voracek and then Konecny replaced Simmonds. Putting him on the top line was something myself and many others called for since game 1... and this is exactly why. His skillset is a perfect fit there, to get the most out of him and his linemates. Wasting him in the bottom 6 with horrible linemates was an indefensible thing to do and the potential offensive contribution that was wasted can easily be blamed for multiple games lost, just like if we took away any of the other top players scoring. An extra goal here or there could be the difference between the playoffs or the lottery. Yet another strike in the long list against Hakstol.

There will be a meltdown no matter what. It just varies from game to game who is melting down.

And Dave Hakstol's philosophy is that in hockey, like life, one finds true contentment in the journey and not in the destination.

 

[Striiker]

There will be a meltdown no matter what. It just varies from game to game who is melting down.

And Dave Hakstol's philosophy is that in hockey, like life, one finds true contentment in the journey and not in the destination.

But one meltdown is deserved, significantly shorter, and isn't full of blatant lies and random bullsh*t.

If someone f***s up as big as Manning, as often as Manning, and provides as few positives as Manning, there's no excuse for him playing. Outrage at his current status on this roster is deserved. Meanwhile our 3rd best defensemen is in the AHL.

What isn't deserved is every time Sanheim makes a small mistake (or even makes no mistake at all, but just so happens to be on the ice) there's idiotic posts exaggerating it and saying it proves he's not ready (because veterans never mess up). Which intentionally ignores that he's both improving and successfully driving play at an high level, instead of being like 8, 23, or 47, where they're either a massive detriment or - best case scenario - just normal bad.

 

[Rebels57]

Wasn't all Neuvy, first goal obviously was on him but I don't thing there was other softies. He did not play well but we did not lose because of him.

Manning did only play 12 minutes. He still he managed to **** up numerous times and cost us 2 goals against.
Maybe Sanheim (or any other hockey player for that matter) wouldn't give up those breakaways for example so you wouldn't have to blame our goalie for Manning's mistakes.

They moved Voracek away from G and Coots before TK moved to first line.

Manning cost us 3 goals.

He decided to not even attempt to cover his man on the go-ahead powerplay goal. He just stood there, allowed him to score, and went on about his shit for brains business.

f***, I hate him.

 

[deadhead]

Sadly, I think you are right about veteran playing time, in the sense that players like Lehtera and Filppula get regular minutes because they are 'owed' it in Dave Hakstol's mind. As for the veterans who contribute positively to this line-up, I side with Curu about seeing a positive with replacing underachievers with higher-upside youngsters.

Players like Lehtera and Filppula get regular minutes because there are no viable alternatives on the roster at this time.
Leier got a full shot at a starting job and was meh.
Weise got a shot and has been benched.
Laughton hasn't shown he can handle anything more than a checking role right now (I see no evidence he can playmake or control the pace of play).
And it's not like Lehtera or Goul play a lot of minutes. Goul 6:29, Lehtera 8:53, Filppula 14:19, Manning 12:32.

The team is in a holding pattern because Hextall doesn't want to rush his prospects.
He's playing the "long game," his focus is on the future, not this season (or Schenn would still be a Flyer).

 

[Striiker]

No other options.

They have to stay in guys. Nobody else can play. There's no one else. Lehtera is forced on Hakstol. Don't blame him.

 

[Rebels57]

Players like Lehtera and Filppula get regular minutes because there are no viable alternatives on the roster at this time.
Leier got a full shot at a starting job and was meh.
Weise got a shot and has been benched.
Laughton hasn't shown he can handle anything more than a checking role right now (I see no evidence he can playmake or control the pace of play).
And it's not like Lehtera or Goul play a lot of minutes. Goul 6:29, Lehtera 8:53, Filppula 14:19, Manning 12:32.

The team is in a holding pattern because Hextall doesn't want to rush his prospects.
He's playing the "long game," his focus is on the future, not this season (or Schenn would still be a Flyer).

I unblocked this post just to see how f***ing stupid it was and it did not dissapoint. Utterly embarassing.

 

[BernieParent]

Players like Lehtera and Filppula get regular minutes because there are no viable alternatives on the roster at this time.
Leier got a full shot at a starting job and was meh.
Weise got a shot and has been benched.
Laughton hasn't shown he can handle anything more than a checking role right now (I see no evidence he can playmake or control the pace of play).
And it's not like Lehtera or Goul play a lot of minutes. Goul 6:29, Lehtera 8:53, Filppula 14:19, Manning 12:32.

The team is in a holding pattern because Hextall doesn't want to rush his prospects.
He's playing the "long game," his focus is on the future, not this season (or Schenn would still be a Flyer).

Beyond disagreeing with your initial premise, I reiterate my point about the binary roster decisions being unnecessary. If Leier is simply meh and Weise is no better than Lehtera, it doesn't mean that Lehtera has to be playing in 100% of games and Leier / Weise 0%. Furthermore, the little ice time they get can also be fluid and in line with how well / poorly they are playing within a particular game, as I posted previously.

 

[hatcher]

No other options.

They have to stay in guys. Nobody else can play. There's no one else. Lehtera is forced on Hakstol. Don't blame him.

You can see Konecny is stronger and not making stupid passes like at the start of the season and now Hak sees it and put him on a top line. None of these pics are ready to compete but have way more to learn. Were just rolling threw this season and more changes will come. Leier hasn't brought anything that VDV couldn't have brought. Sanheim,Myers,Morin,Linbolm we hope are the answers but we don't know forsure. I wanna win bad and I'm the most jumpy bastard on this site but I don't want those kids wrecked. None have stood out like Ghost,provy,Konecny. Hagg will be a great 3rd pair dman when everything is ready to go in 4 to 5 years. Sell Simmonds this year also.

 

[Lindberg]

There isn't any viable excuse to say that Lehtera should be playing. The guy was a cap dump and should be heading back to Europe.

 

[Danko]

WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO US DAVE HAKSTOL!? WHY!!!!!????

 

[Striiker]

You can see Konecny is stronger and not making stupid passes like at the start of the season and now Hak sees it and put him on a top line. None of these pics are ready to compete but have way more to learn. Were just rolling threw this season and more changes will come. Leier hasn't brought anything that VDV couldn't have brought. Sanheim,Myers,Morin,Linbolm we hope are the answers but we don't know forsure. I wanna win bad and I'm the most jumpy bastard on this site but I don't want those kids wrecked. None have stood out like Ghost,provy,Konecny. Hagg will be a great 3rd pair dman when everything is ready to go in 4 to 5 years. Sell Simmonds this year also.

The first two pictures are Leier and Laughton...

Leier is easily better than Lehtera and Laughton is easily better than Filppula. Neither would be ruined by being used in their roles either.

As for the rest, Lindblom could definitely step into the top 9 right now and there's zero doubt in my mind that any of the others would easily outperform Lehtera.

Point is, there's options. Hakstol just refuses to use them because he actually believes that Lehtera and Filppula help win games. The excuses made for Hakstol are all pathetic reaches.

 

[pit]

Leier got a full shot at a starting job and was meh.

I'll take Meh over Bleh(tera).

 

[Danko]

there's zero doubt in my mind that any of the others would easily outperform Lehtera.

Patrick Thoresons broken cup would out perform Lehtera. I honestly would prefer Umberger to Lehtera.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Neuvirth sure did suck. Shades of Leighton and Bryz rolled into one goalie.


Manning was even worse. There is no justification for having him continue to play over Sanheim. None.

 

[Beef Invictus]

There isn't any viable excuse to say that Lehtera should be playing. The guy was a cap dump and should be heading back to Europe.

There are multiple players in this organization who are better than Lehtera and Goul. Having them on the team would improve it. Instead, we choose to ice a worse roster.

 

[flyersjim73]

Update: Woke up at 10am this morning still drunk and rolled into work a tad bit late. I’ve now graduated to hungover as $&@! I recall a good start followed by me yelling F Hakstol loud enough that he might have heard me from the 400 levels. While the Flyers might have appreciated my passion, the usher did not. Many shots of Jameson were had (which I’ve learned is the only way I can watch a Dave Hakstol coached team).

 

[hatcher]

The first two pictures are Leier and Laughton...

Leier is easily better than Lehtera and Laughton is easily better than Filppula. Neither would be ruined by being used in their roles either.

As for the rest, Lindblom could definitely step into the top 9 right now and there's zero doubt in my mind that any of the others would easily outperform Lehtera.

Point is, there's options. Hakstol just refuses to use them because he actually believes that Lehtera and Filppula help win games. The excuses made for Hakstol are all pathetic reaches.

I don't like that coach and everyone on here knows this. I don't think hexy thinks the prospects are ready.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Gotta love dead's comments about Laughton not proving anything. Last time I checked, you can't prove what you can do until given the opportunity.

Laughton has clearly earned that chance over Filppula, because we are getting a nothing burger from Flipper. It's a complete no brainer to give it a shot.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Manning wasn't good, but he only played 12 minutes

Goul hardly plays, so if you replace him, how many minutes does his replacement get? In other words, much ado about nothing.

Filppula is at the end of his career, but who is the replacement? His minutes are also starting to decline.

It's the GM and Coach's job to maximize, not say your 2nd pairing, 2C, and whatever you want to call Voracek/Simmonds etc too insignificant to matter.

Regardless, if it was just one of these or even two, it might not make a huge difference in the long run. What happens when we add up just the 5v5 ice time?

MacDonald 16:22
Hagg 16:10
Filppula 12:22
Manning 11:04
Goulbourne 6:28
Lehtera 6:13

Now we have 68:39 at 5v5 of complete and utter dreck in one game. By design. It's indefensible.

 

[Striiker]

I don't like that coach and everyone on here knows this. I don't think hexy thinks the prospects are ready.

But my point is that Leier and Laughton aren't prospects anymore. There's no risk there.

Even if we don't call anyone up, this lineup is better than our current one, no doubt in my mind...
Giroux-Couturier-Konecny
Voracek-Patrick-Simmonds
Raffl-Laughton-Weal
Leier-Filppula-Goulbourne

Obviously that bottom line plays as little as possible, like 5 minutes per night.

Then make the second unit some combination of Weal, TK, Patrick, Laughton, and Provorov. Patrick replaces Lehtera and Laughton in Voraceks spot (where he was lethal on the PP in the AHL).

 

[hatcher]

But my point is that Leier and Laughton aren't prospects anymore. There's no risk there.

Even if we don't call anyone up, this lineup is better than our current one, no doubt in my mind...
Giroux-Couturier-Konecny
Voracek-Patrick-Simmonds
Raffl-Laughton-Weal
Leier-Filppula-Goulbourne

Obviously that bottom line plays as little as possible, like 5 minutes per night.

Then make the second unit some combination of Weal, TK, Patrick, Laughton, and Provorov. Patrick replaces Lehtera and Laughton in Voraceks spot (where he was lethal on the PP in the AHL).

Hey man I agree but I think Hexy wants to trade Lethera and Filp and hoping the more they play the more he gets for both. I'm hard on this team but I wouldn't that whole bottom except Laughton and bring up the kids and maybe even trade a couple picks to add some real bottom six players.