Prospect Info: #5 OA - Barrett Hayton - Center - Back to the OHL

[PuckLife]

The name of the drafting game is to get the kid that projects the best - not the one who scores the most in Jr. hockey, despite being a 99 birth year. Good teams are patient and usually favour draftiing the younger player.

Way too many posters are criticising the Hayton pick based on very little info. Then other tag on to the misinformed idea and make it even worse. Stats and highlights tell part of the story. Watching full games tells a lot more.

Hayton had 3 teams ready to pick him above #10. Chayka would have explored his options, as seen on the video, and if he was guaranteed to get Hayton later, he would have traded down. It was not an option. I’d guarantee it.

 

[hbk]

The name of the drafting game is to get the kid that projects the best - not the one who scores the most in Jr. hockey, despite being a 99 birth year. Good teams are patient and usually favour draftiing the younger player.

Way too many posters are criticising the Hayton pick based on very little info. Then other tag on to the misinformed idea and make it even worse. Stats and highlights tell part of the story. Watching full games tells a lot more.

Hayton had 3 teams ready to pick him above #10. Chayka would have explored his options, as seen on the video, and if he was guaranteed to get Hayton later, he would have traded down. It was not an option. I’d guarantee it.

I don't think we are criticizing it. I think everyone has an open mind and are hopeful that he pans out. I also think it's fair to judge the head amateur scout of this franchise based on this selection (and others).

 

[Jakey53]

I’m not saying he doesn’t have capacity just that the role he was auditioning for was more tailored to the strength of his two way game. I’m hoping that offensive upside that can justify a top 5 selection comes. I’m not saying it won’t. I am saying however that if it doesn’t then the head of amateur scouting needs to go. This was a statement pick by the organization. There just needs to be consequences if things don’t go as expected.

Agreed, and I wonder if that was what brought about GMDM being dumped (he was the final say on drafting Strome, whom we know has the dynamics in him, but just hasn't put it all together at the NHL level quite yet).

If this doesn't work out, I have faith that the right decision will be made to remove a scout, scouts, or even go all the way up the chain to Chayka should things go south with this.

I said quite some time ago, that if the Coyotes fall flat on their face, Chayka will feel the heat and everyone laughed. IF we don't make the playoffs, or at least in a stones throw, there has to be consequences. I don't think the scouting dept. are in danger as they have done quite well the last few years, and this year may turn out to be good also. Chayka has been the one making the trades every half hour. Chayka has been given more resources than anyone before him, so hopefully the team gels and we can finally be proud to be a Coyote fan.

 

[PhoPhan]

A dynamic offensive game rarely just "blossoms" out of nowhere, nor is it something that can really be developed. It requires opportunity at key developmental stages—namely, a player's draft and d+1 seasons. Hayton will be the #2 center on his team for both of those years, barring an injury or an outstanding NHL camp for Morgan Frost.

I think he'll end up a fine two-way center in the NHL, but anybody expecting gamebreaking offensive skill is going to be disappointed. Part of that will be because of his defensive responsibilities—Patrice Bergeron's numbers are held back a little, too—but the larger part will be because his creativity was stunted during an important period.

 

[BUX7PHX]

No relation. Power struggle, Barroway/Drummond, Tippett, etc.

Especially if you consider that since Chayka took Hayton it makes it pretty clear that in the same position on draft day he takes Strome 10 out of 10 times in that spot. Strome checks almost all the same boxes Hayton does besides two way play and adds a few of his own.
Maloney got stale roster building wise at the NHL level, but their preferences in drafting are quite similar. Chayka has more resources (So no need for dumb bloodlines picks, which Maloney mostly stopped toward the end as he too got a better scouting dept.) and Chayka does have a distinct preference for younger draftees.

Possibly not related and possibly a small piece to the puzzle. Remember that there was a lot of talk to trading for Hamilton, and it is possible that DM fought hard for Strome when others may not have been as convinced.

 

[PuckLife]

A dynamic offensive game rarely just "blossoms" out of nowhere, nor is it something that can really be developed. It requires opportunity at key developmental stages—namely, a player's draft and d+1 seasons. Hayton will be the #2 center on his team for both of those years, barring an injury or an outstanding NHL camp for Morgan Frost.

I think he'll end up a fine two-way center in the NHL, but anybody expecting gamebreaking offensive skill is going to be disappointed. Part of that will be because of his defensive responsibilities—Patrice Bergeron's numbers are held back a little, too—but the larger part will be because his creativity was stunted during an important period.

Never have I heard that a players creativity can be stunted during an important period. All due respect, but that is rediculous.

Plus, Hayton is one of the most creative playmakers in the draft. He has lead his team’s offence when put in that role - Hlinka, Minor Midget etc.

 

[moosemeister]

 

[cobra427]

Possibly not related and possibly a small piece to the puzzle. Remember that there was a lot of talk to trading for Hamilton, and it is possible that DM fought hard for Strome when others may not have been as convinced.

This was the big rift, DM wanted to keep the pick/Strome, Tip wanted to trade it for Hamilton, Chayka was kind of neutral at the time mostly or likely because he didn't want to strongly oppose his boss. Easy to look back now, but hard to predict the future of draft prospects.

 

[rt]

Tough to look at the 2018 class and see so many top D and then look at the 2019 class and see so many intriguing C prospects.

 

[Grimes]

Tough to look at the 2018 class and see so many top D and then look at the 2019 class and see so many intriguing C prospects.

I guess the plan is to not be in a position to get a top C this year. Hope the dice roll works out....

 

[BUX7PHX]

This was the big rift, DM wanted to keep the pick/Strome, Tip wanted to trade it for Hamilton, Chayka was kind of neutral at the time mostly or likely because he didn't want to strongly oppose his boss. Easy to look back now, but hard to predict the future of draft prospects.

Chayka was kind of in a no-win position, in a way.

I like how he has made it clear that his job is to create a consensus amongst his scouts and management regarding the player that is picked. Yes, someone may like a certain player better, but if a player consistently shows up in the top 2 of the scouts and management's lists, then that becomes a consensus to base that off of.

Again, I don't remember this 100%, and this may have been not as prevalent since most interviews on Strome were held with Maloney and not Chayka, but look at all the comments that Chayka has made regarding Hayton. "He gave us no reason not to take him." "I kept being obsessed with his play since January." etc., etc.

Now ask yourself if any of those descriptions that were applied to Hayton were regarding Strome. I haven't seen any evidence that Chayka (or others) were gushing about Strome in his draft year. That's probably why the whole concept of trading for Hamilton was present in the first place. There wasn't a great consensus amongst the group, and while Chayka wasn't likely to poo-poo the Strome pick, I don't think that Strome was hands-down the player that was coveted there either.

From this ESPN article: Coyotes whiz kid GM more than just a numbers nerd

"Although Sullivan -- who played 16 seasons with the New Jersey Devils, Toronto Maple Leafs, Chicago Blackhawks, Nashville Predators, Penguins and Coyotes -- admits that he was skeptical at first of Chayka, he was impressed with the latter's decision-making during Chayka's first draft with the team, then as assistant general manager, in 2015. Sullivan recalled how Chayka wasn't afraid to voice his opinion about prospects, even when it was contrary to those of some of his older co-workers. That chutzpah quickly won Sullivan over, and the two became friends."

Is the bolded part saying exactly what is being suggested? I know that with a collection of picks, there are going to be several opinions, but I figure that bigger opinions are reserved for players being picked higher than most.

 

[lanky]

Never have I heard that a players creativity can be stunted during an important period. All due respect, but that is rediculous.

Not ridiculous at all. It's that exact reason why you don't put a kid in the NHL just because he's strong and fast. Boedker and Crouse were both stunted.

 

[moosemeister]

Not ridiculous at all. It's that exact reason why you don't put a kid in the NHL just because he's strong and fast. Boedker and Crouse were both stunted.

Crouse wasn’t very good to begin with

 

[Bonsai Tree]

A dynamic offensive game rarely just "blossoms" out of nowhere, nor is it something that can really be developed. It requires opportunity at key developmental stages—namely, a player's draft and d+1 seasons. Hayton will be the #2 center on his team for both of those years, barring an injury or an outstanding NHL camp for Morgan Frost.

I think he'll end up a fine two-way center in the NHL, but anybody expecting gamebreaking offensive skill is going to be disappointed. Part of that will be because of his defensive responsibilities—Patrice Bergeron's numbers are held back a little, too—but the larger part will be because his creativity was stunted during an important period.

How so? Do you have any data to support that D and D+1 years are critical to the development of offensive production, or is this a faith based comment?

 

[SniperHF]

How so? Do you have any data to support that D and D+1 years are critical to the development of offensive production, or is this a faith based comment?

I think that's the wrong way to look at it. Offensive potential at the NHL level generally identifies itself in production at the lower levels. Players in the early first round don't typically play more than a D+1 and often don't play beyond their drafted season. Can anyone actually name a top end prospect that didn't show such offensive potential then and ended up a dynamic offensive player?

I'm sure there are examples but none really come to mind immediately.
You'd need an awful lot of examples to effectively question the assumption/conventional wisdom that the D and D+1 seasons aren't critically important when basically every high end offensive player shows it then.

Scroll down Elite Prospects for the top scorers last season:
Elite Prospects - NHL Stats 2017-2018

And click their profiles and find guys who didn't tear it up at the Junior level in the D or D+1 season?

You're mostly limited to Russians and other Europeans who are harder to get a read on as they are often playing in Men's leagues with a different competition level.


I mean we'd have to define what a Dynamic offensive game is, but I'd say top 30 forwards or so certainly qualifies.
The list of guys who didn't tear it up their D+1 or earlier season is limited to Blake Wheeler. And even then he did lead his USHL team and it took awhile for him at the NCAA level.

Even someone like Couturier who didn't show his potential at the NHL for quite a long time, tore up the Q at well over a point per.

 

[rt]

2018 Prospect Profile: Barrett Hayton

 

[hbk]

2018 Prospect Profile: Barrett Hayton

Fantastic read.

 

[Jakey53]

2018 Prospect Profile: Barrett Hayton

Fantastic read.

Yes it was. Maybe Chayka was right about him?

 

[rt]

Favorite part is it was written by a wings fan in January.

 

[hbk]

Yes it was. Maybe Chayka was right about him?

I will gladly heap praise upon our scouting staff if Hayton pans out as the next Bergeron.

 

[hbk]

Favorite part is it was written by a wings fan in January.

It is a great piece and reflects my own scouting (I’ll get to Hayton later) prejudice this past year while I focused on 10 players with Hayton firmly entrenched as my 11th.

 

[TheLegend]

“He has all the tools, the tool box, and even the tool shed.”

 

[Mosby]

Another argument for Hayton over Zadina could be looking back to the 2014 draft, when Bernhardt & Co. took a winger (Perlini) over a center (Larkin). Larkin was taken 3 picks after Perlini. I'm a big fan of Perlini, but Larkin would solve our forever problem at center. He is, or very soon will be, a No. 1 center.

 

[rt]

I liked that article. I don’t like this pick.

 

[Grimes]

I liked that article. I don’t like this pick.

How would you feel if it went:
Dahlin
Schev
Kotkaniemi
Zadina
Hayton

Without any knowledge of the fact that Q Hughes already looks like an elite prospect and is stumping top prpspects left and right with his skating. (Aka Im still upset until production proves me wrong)