Post-Game Talk: #5: FLYERS at Oilers, Wednesday, Oct. 16, 2019, 9:30 pm ET

[dragonoffrost]

then, perhaps, he is a wrong man for the job.

I can't imagine telling my boss that I am streaky, or him tolerating my streakiness.

Was Simmonds the wrong guy during his productive years? He was the same.

 

[dragonoffrost]

What if it could be more productive, instead of theoretically productive?

11th to 15th in the league. Is that truly productive enough? If not it needs a change.

 

[CapnZin]

I only have one work for that game: YIKES

 

[CSKA1974]

What if it could be more productive, instead of theoretically productive?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Actually we don't know that - for one thing I doubt Hagg just decides to do that on his own.
If we had competent reporters, they might ask if that is how AV wants his D-men to play.

It is. They're all doing it. But because Hagg is incapable of breaking out he ends up with the rush while Ghost does the work.

The problem is that Hagg shouldn't be on the roster. It's bad enough trying to play like that with Braun.

 

[CSKA1974]

Was Simmonds the wrong guy during his productive years? He was the same.

 

[deadhead]

It is. They're all doing it. But because Hagg is incapable of breaking out he ends up with the rush while Ghost does the work.

The problem is that Hagg shouldn't be on the roster. It's bad enough trying to play like that with Braun.

They'd have the same issue with Morin in the lineup.
Too bad Myers screwed the pooch in TC.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They'd have the same issue with Morin in the lineup.
Too bad Myers screwed the pooch in TC.

Morin is better than Hagg. Myers is better than Hagg.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

What if it could be more productive, instead of theoretically productive?

The PP is a nuanced discussion I’m trying not to step into, but I love that we collectively have discussions about optimality rather than whether X or Y is good enough.

I’m sensitive to the idea that we sometimes go overboard, but maximizing every tiny advantage you can find is the only way you can win long term with margins of victory as hilariously tiny (see last night) as they are. This is now a requirement to compete, same as spending money.

 

[dragonoffrost]

They'd have the same issue with Morin in the lineup.
Too bad Myers screwed the pooch in TC.

Cue the TC shouldn't matter arguement...

 

[deadhead]

Morin is better than Hagg. Myers is better than Hagg.

Really? Because he hasn't convinced his new HC, who has zero emotional attachment to either player.

 

[Danko]

But Hagg had 7 HITS last night and hitting clearly makes you win hockey games. @Beef Invictus

 

[Beef Invictus]

Really? Because he hasn't convinced his new HC, who has zero emotional attachment to either player.

Yes.

Do you agree that coaches are fallible?

 

[dragonoffrost]

The PP is a nuanced discussion I’m trying not to step into, but I love that we collectively have discussions about optimality rather than whether X or Y is good enough.

I’m sensitive to the idea that we sometimes go overboard, but maximizing every tiny advantage you can find is the only way you can win long term with margins of victory as hilariously tiny (see last night) as they are. This is now a requirement to compete, same as spending money.

The funny thing is they are arguing they want to optimize a power play by making it the same power play that has been 11-15th in the league for the last how many seasons. Is that really optimized? Because if it is optimized then we are doomed to be a bubble team forever in today's special teams driven NHL.

 

[Rebels57]

Top 6 gets changed.... immediately dominates
Jake stops getting buried with scrubs.... 3 points
5v3 PP with Jake and G on the correct sides.... one timer goal

WHO COULD HAVE GUESSED

The star players played great, but had no luck. If they play at EXACTLY the same level every game we should all be thrilled. Anyone complaining about them should feel shame.

Makes it clear that the coaching sabotage is a real problem right now. Shoutout to Fletcher too for the mistake assists.

Also, the typical bad players were really bad and Hart had a rough night, but it happens.

I wouldn't call lack of execution bad luck. They played well enough to get high-danger scoring chances, but they didn't execute. Missing the net is lack of execution, not bad luck.

The bigger issue is that we have no 3rd line. We have a 4th getting 3rd line minutes and a 5th line getting 4th line minutes.

They need Patrick back and Farabee up. If they are not going to get Patrick back, they need a back-up plan..whether that is Frost or the trade market.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The funny thing is they are arguing they want to optimize a power play by making it the same power play that has been 11-15th in the league for the last how many seasons. Is that really optimized? Because if it is optimized then we are doomed to be a bubble team forever in today's special teams driven NHL.

Maybe! This is why I personally find it fun to investigate. There’s very little black and white in this weird-ass sport.

Even when you think you find something cut and dry, Goaltending is still looming on the other side.

 

[Starat327]

What if it could be more productive, instead of theoretically productive?

This is a silly mindset. Just keep what youre doing, and eventually you'll just luck out. Creating a more efficient process doesnt help you, hoping and praying does.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Maybe! This is why I personally find it fun to investigate. There’s very little black and white in this weird-ass sport.

Even when you think you find something cut and dry, Goaltending is still looming on the other side.

 

[flyersnorth]

Well, the Flyers are decidedly mediocre thru 5 games.

23rd overall in points (16th in p%)
20th in GF/GP
21st in GA/GP
6th on the PP
20th on the PK

2-2-1.

Could have been better, could have been worse.

But mediocre's where the Flyers live.

Here's hoping some home cookin' will make things right.

 

[Starat327]

The funny thing is they are arguing they want to optimize a power play by making it the same power play that has been 11-15th in the league for the last how many seasons. Is that really optimized? Because if it is optimized then we are doomed to be a bubble team forever in today's special teams driven NHL.

I dont think anyone thinks fixing the PP is going to make the team unbeatable. Just as I dont think removing Hagg and replacing him with a competent NHLer will do so. But the idea here is to put yourself in the best position to succeed. Now obviously what's 'best' is very subjective, but if the PP1 setup isnt currently working - in the sense that they used to score a lot of goals and now they seemingly cant score any, as well as the eye testing making it look very clumsy - shouldnt we at least investigate changing it?

Again, the PP alone isnt going to make us a contender. But if you make that better, you give yourself a better chance, and that's what your goal should be. There's always going to be a measure of luck to this sport, as we saw last night. But your aim should be to minimize the luck, and maximize your chances on the things you can control.

Interesting to note - the blues were 10th in PP last year, with the canes at 20th, and nashville in last.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The funny thing is they are arguing they want to optimize a power play by making it the same power play that has been 11-15th in the league for the last how many seasons. Is that really optimized? Because if it is optimized then we are doomed to be a bubble team forever in today's special teams driven NHL.

Are you remembering to account for the fact that the second unit dragged numbers of a great first unit down? That those two have flipped should be a red flag.

 

[dragonoffrost]

And with that I will expouse a little....

I love that we have a staff that believes they can improve on a 11-15th power play. Even if it means that what was PP1 becomes PP2 and vice versa. It's not about my personal favorites getting their cookies. It's about a team getting the whole damn giant cookie from the place that used to make the large ones in a local mall. You know what that cookie is, it's being a top 5 pp in the league. It's a power play that is dominant enough we win rounds in the playoffs when things tighten up. It's a pp that brings a cup. It's a parade down Broad Street. None of which happened with the current usage.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Are you remembering to account for the fact that the second unit dragged numbers of a great first unit down? That those two have flipped should be a red flag.

If the second unit hit the ice didn't the great first unit fail probably 90% of the time they hit the ice? Don't approximately 90% of power plays start with unit one?

 

[Beef Invictus]

If the second unit hit the ice didn't the great first unit fail probably 90% of the time they hit the ice? Don't approximately 90% of power plays start with unit one?

The first unit tended to be ranked near the top of the league in production with the second unit at the bottom. Basically if the first unit didn't score then the second unit was just holding the fort down until even strength.

The first unit has produced at a lower level since they killed off the one timer option.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Well, the Flyers are decidedly mediocre thru 5 games.

23rd overall in points (16th in p%)
20th in GF/GP
21st in GA/GP
6th on the PP
20th on the PK

2-2-1.

Could have been better, could have been worse.

But mediocre's where the Flyers live.

Here's hoping some home cookin' will make things right.

The one positive stat of the bunch is the one complained about the most