Every year we try to "Extend The Window" is another year wasted. Its time to blow it up and start over.
5/30/17 GMBM press conference 12:00pm
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twabby
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- Mar 9, 2010
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They were an average goaltending performance away from beating the Penguins.
There should be changes but blowing it up is a massive overreaction.
ovikovy817
Registered User
Yeah, let's tank and wait 10 years before finding our McDavid, and there's no problem if we finish after those 10 years, only with a Yakupov type player.
Roughing
Registered User
I'm not sure who advocated tanking anyway. I want to move OV and Orpik, not bring back Williams or Alzner. Other than that, RFAs and TJ can stay, maybe KSK, too. Hopefully a few Hershey kids are ready and we get a useful part back from OV. Younger, cheaper, and not necessarily worse starting in 18-19, when we'll start having [most] of our picks again and possibly some FA money. It's like a 1 year rebuild.
- Feb 15, 2005
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The gist of that GMBM presser seemed to be: Even though the exit interviews indicated that there's some **** that's wrong here, I don't have any authority to fix what's wrong with this team. So . . . . whatever?
He clearly sees what was wrong with the coaching staff:
“It’s the coaching staff’s responsibility to get those guys in a mental state that they’re relaxed enough to play.â€
And he says what's wrong with Ovie:
“I think he’s going to have to think of ways he can evolve into a player that still has a major impact on the game. The game’s getting faster. He’s going to have to train in a different way – a more speed way instead of a power way. He’s gonna have to make adjustments to stay [relevant] in the game.â€
And
“It’s a fast game now,†MacLellan said. “You’ve got to be able to forecheck. There’s a lot of backside pressure. He’s going to have to evolve into that type of player to play top minutes. … He has the potential. I think he needs to make adjustments. He’s always going to have potential on the power play because he has a great shot and is a good fit on our power play the way it’s set up. Five-on-five goals is going to be the key for him, how much he can create five-on-five. And he’s going to have to make adjustments in the way he approaches the game in the offseason to get to that point where he can score five-on-five goals.â€
But he's not going to be allowed to do much about it.
Maybe we can take a little solace from Ovie saying this: “I don’t want to stay on the same level. I want to be better, I want to get better and I have to work much harder this offseason than those previous to get success and to get the goal of the Stanley Cup."
But there's been 10 years of too much talk and too little action from the leaders of this organization, so a good dose of cautionary cynicism seems in order here.
He clearly sees what was wrong with the coaching staff:
“It’s the coaching staff’s responsibility to get those guys in a mental state that they’re relaxed enough to play.â€
And he says what's wrong with Ovie:
“I think he’s going to have to think of ways he can evolve into a player that still has a major impact on the game. The game’s getting faster. He’s going to have to train in a different way – a more speed way instead of a power way. He’s gonna have to make adjustments to stay [relevant] in the game.â€
And
“It’s a fast game now,†MacLellan said. “You’ve got to be able to forecheck. There’s a lot of backside pressure. He’s going to have to evolve into that type of player to play top minutes. … He has the potential. I think he needs to make adjustments. He’s always going to have potential on the power play because he has a great shot and is a good fit on our power play the way it’s set up. Five-on-five goals is going to be the key for him, how much he can create five-on-five. And he’s going to have to make adjustments in the way he approaches the game in the offseason to get to that point where he can score five-on-five goals.â€
But he's not going to be allowed to do much about it.
Maybe we can take a little solace from Ovie saying this: “I don’t want to stay on the same level. I want to be better, I want to get better and I have to work much harder this offseason than those previous to get success and to get the goal of the Stanley Cup."
But there's been 10 years of too much talk and too little action from the leaders of this organization, so a good dose of cautionary cynicism seems in order here.
It's something else every year, brother. Winners find ways to win, they don't succumb to luck year in year out.
Tweedsuitcase
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- Sep 28, 2009
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You've repeated this recipe for success over and over. "Get more studs" (No mention of who these studs are, or how we get them)
There's no player (or multiple players) like this that we could get. and, it's not the answer anyway. The Pens lucked/failed into Crosby and Malkin, and took a chance on Kessel (who IS underrated, but IMO gets sheltered by the former two players and takes advantage).
Good as those players are, they aren't the reason we can't beat them.
Sure, but blowing it up completely may not be the best option. I think a retool is needed. I am not sure / don't think a full-blown firesale is the right course of action. Absolute best case scenario in a full rebuild is you find yourself another Ovechkin/Crosby/McDavid and are ready to compete for a Cup in five years or so, at best. Worst case if you turn a very good team -- and I think this will still be a pretty solid team -- into a ****** team that's irrelevant for the next decade. I am totally for a retool... but I'm not quite ready to go back to looking at mock drafts in December.
OV Rocks
Registered User
Having 3 guys on your team who on any given year can score 40 goals will completely change the dynamic of the entire lineup. Especially last season we saw first hand what happens when they split up Crosby, Malkin, and Kessel. I think that was more of the norm for that team. This season they had to put Kessel and Malkin together because of injuries and still won.
Look at all of the successful franchises right now the start players are in bunches.
The NBA is a joke with the players jumping together, Cavs, Warriors, Spurs
The Cubs in the MLB added the best closer to their already best team and won the World Series
The Patriots this past offseason, a high end tight end, dynamic running back, elite wide receiver, and another 2-3 receiver to add to Gronk, Edelman, and White. You think that team needed more "studs"
The Penguins saw Phil Kessel and said we have Crosby in his prime and Malkin in his prime, a solid goalie, and a number 1 d-man. Lets go for it. While the Caps have added, Erat, Knuble, Richards, Eller, Orpik, Weber, Glencross.
What names do you want? "Studs" aren't on the trade block (except Kessel) you have to go get them. There is nothing in the Caps history that says they are going to go out and get that All Star stud guy. They got baited into adding an over rated Shattenkirk who now is being viewed as the 5th defense man that he is.
It is frustrating to see this team do the same thing over and over.
Add Richards...fail. Upgrade to Eller...disappointment. Trade Deadline...add depth defense, they suck
How much more can you take of this "wash rinse repeat" and wasting of two of the greatest players ever in Backstrom and Ovechkin
OV Rocks
Registered User
Yes I want to add elite talent to the team but this quote speaks volumes.
Winners win and Losers lose
twabby
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I'm not saying don't change anything. I'm in favor of a retool, not a complete tear-down and rebuild like they did from 2003-07.
Kuznetsov, Burakovsky, Orlov, and Schmidt are all good players and are likely to get even better next season. Wilson has also improved as well and should get better.
Backstrom, Johansson, Oshie (if they re-sign him), Niskanen, Carlson, and Holtby are likely going to be just as good even if their boxcars don't match this season's lofty totals. And in Holtby's case it's hard to imagine next postseason being worse than this one.
Aside from Ovechkin who is likely to decline much? Beagle? Orpik? These players aren't very important, and Ovechkin's 5v5 play already saw a steep decline this season yet they were still a contender.
I would have liked to have seen a coaching change and I wouldn't be against trading Ovechkin because he is the one key player who is likely to see his abilities decline the most. If your definition of blowing it up is trading Ovechkin then I can get behind that, but I don't agree with trading Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Niskanen, Holtby, or other players just for the sake of blowing it up. They should make a few strategic moves to better position themselves to compete next season, not start from scratch.
Hivemind
We're Touched
Re-tool now. That likely means a season or two of not being prime contenders as they reposition themselves to contend again. Re-building to shortly follow if the re-tool fails. But if they were to start a complete rebuild right now, they'd be starting from a position of weakness. They lack the draft picks and prospects to rebuild currently. One of the focuses they need during this retooling period is to restock the cupboard a bit, and find new young players they can trust in the line-up on a nightly basis.
Wow its so sad to see so many people screaming to trade Ovechkin on this forum. I get the main boards but you guys.......wow this year really did you in ehhh.
One question i have for all of you proposing we blow it up...... what guarantee you have that you will have better puck luck next time around with a different group?
Because the way it seems to me is that we didn't loose to Pitts two years in a row because they were the better team, we lost because they had better puck luck, still do! Anyone still watching games? They are the luckiest team i have ever seen. That no goal offsides call, 37 minutes without a shot and still win 5-3. None one else does this crap. Last year it was the same thing. Puck joes goes right on their sticks in OT. Calls go their way. They just have this freaking luck. As for Caps, we are getting 40 shots on net and announcers are screaming HOW ARE THESE SHOTS NOT GOING IN FOR THE CAPITALS. It is what it is and they have the luck going their way right now. It won't last forever. Pitts will have much deeper squads int he future that will get bounced in the first round. Its not about whats on paper.
With that being said, i do think Pitts has much better coaching than we do. I loved Barry when he first arrived but its pretty clear he is not the man for the job. Plus he himself has never been past a second round. A coach who never been past the second round should not be coaching a team who is notorious for not making it past the second round. Just bad omen. They can and will do it but apart from each other This marriage needs to end now.
As for trading Ovechkin, listen if you honestly believe that we would go further this year without him than we did with him, hey thats your opinion and its as good as any. I just know that Caps will never have another player like him. And i know that there have been many years where he tried harder than anyone but GM put together a deeply flawed squad that was never destined to succeed. He has never threatedned to leave to KHL. Never made a big deal about coaching changes and what was asked of him. Plays almost 100% of all games he can. Never threatened with trade request. Always said he would play out his contract and not leave like Kovy did, kept his word until this point. Oh and not to mention one of the greatest goal scorers that ever played. Oh and also one of the most unique players to ever played. But sure, lets trade him away if there is a good "hockey trade" involved.
A lot of people say that changing the coach does not matter because look at how many coaches they went through. Yea sure he has had his fair share of coaches and it sounds like the ownership has been steadily surrounding him with best personal the can...but in retrospect lets take a look at the coaching history. Hanlon..not even in nhl anymore....Boudreau.. best coach Ovi had. Hunter...coaches in youth league, had not business coaching in NHL. Oates....you all know. and now Trotz..the coach who has been in league for over 20 years and never seen the third round..............come on man, how about just for once a coach who has at least played for a SC and knows what its all about....
Anyway I'm done ranting, just though i would add my 2 cents. Caps hockey is in a really sad state. Its almost a shame Caps drafted Ovechkin. If someone else took him Capitals might not even exist right now and all of us would not be going through such heartache.. funny how things work out sometimes
One question i have for all of you proposing we blow it up...... what guarantee you have that you will have better puck luck next time around with a different group?
Because the way it seems to me is that we didn't loose to Pitts two years in a row because they were the better team, we lost because they had better puck luck, still do! Anyone still watching games? They are the luckiest team i have ever seen. That no goal offsides call, 37 minutes without a shot and still win 5-3. None one else does this crap. Last year it was the same thing. Puck joes goes right on their sticks in OT. Calls go their way. They just have this freaking luck. As for Caps, we are getting 40 shots on net and announcers are screaming HOW ARE THESE SHOTS NOT GOING IN FOR THE CAPITALS. It is what it is and they have the luck going their way right now. It won't last forever. Pitts will have much deeper squads int he future that will get bounced in the first round. Its not about whats on paper.
With that being said, i do think Pitts has much better coaching than we do. I loved Barry when he first arrived but its pretty clear he is not the man for the job. Plus he himself has never been past a second round. A coach who never been past the second round should not be coaching a team who is notorious for not making it past the second round. Just bad omen. They can and will do it but apart from each other This marriage needs to end now.
As for trading Ovechkin, listen if you honestly believe that we would go further this year without him than we did with him, hey thats your opinion and its as good as any. I just know that Caps will never have another player like him. And i know that there have been many years where he tried harder than anyone but GM put together a deeply flawed squad that was never destined to succeed. He has never threatedned to leave to KHL. Never made a big deal about coaching changes and what was asked of him. Plays almost 100% of all games he can. Never threatened with trade request. Always said he would play out his contract and not leave like Kovy did, kept his word until this point. Oh and not to mention one of the greatest goal scorers that ever played. Oh and also one of the most unique players to ever played. But sure, lets trade him away if there is a good "hockey trade" involved.
A lot of people say that changing the coach does not matter because look at how many coaches they went through. Yea sure he has had his fair share of coaches and it sounds like the ownership has been steadily surrounding him with best personal the can...but in retrospect lets take a look at the coaching history. Hanlon..not even in nhl anymore....Boudreau.. best coach Ovi had. Hunter...coaches in youth league, had not business coaching in NHL. Oates....you all know. and now Trotz..the coach who has been in league for over 20 years and never seen the third round..............come on man, how about just for once a coach who has at least played for a SC and knows what its all about....
Anyway I'm done ranting, just though i would add my 2 cents. Caps hockey is in a really sad state. Its almost a shame Caps drafted Ovechkin. If someone else took him Capitals might not even exist right now and all of us would not be going through such heartache.. funny how things work out sometimes
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txpd
Registered User
with every one of these failures the team becomes more and more fragile in the playoffs. The Penguins and past Red Wings teams know they can win when trouble strikes. The Caps have no such confidence. Quite to the contrary. One thing goes wrong and they start to think here we go again.
Its a cumulative weight that rides with all of them.
The best way to fight that weight is to remove as much of it as you can. Replace your primary players with people that are free of that experience. All they deal with is the fact of the history. Not having actually lived any of it. This coach has lived it 3 straight times. Ovechkin and Backstrom and Carlson and so on have lived it over an over again as their careers advance. Its their only frame of reference.
I don't want to trade 8 or 19 or 70 but they are all tainted. The well is poisoned. They need a fresh well.
Its a cumulative weight that rides with all of them.
The best way to fight that weight is to remove as much of it as you can. Replace your primary players with people that are free of that experience. All they deal with is the fact of the history. Not having actually lived any of it. This coach has lived it 3 straight times. Ovechkin and Backstrom and Carlson and so on have lived it over an over again as their careers advance. Its their only frame of reference.
I don't want to trade 8 or 19 or 70 but they are all tainted. The well is poisoned. They need a fresh well.
Hivemind
We're Touched
"Player X" is a "winner" or "loser" is just a crap way of thinking. Every player is a loser until they suddenly aren't anymore. Yzerman was a "loser." Bourque was a "loser." Selanne was a "loser." Brind'Amour was a "loser." Kessel was a "loser."
Justin Williams, Brooks Orpik, and Mike Richards were "winners." What did that get the Capitals?
You move a player for the good of the team. Not because some mouth breathers think that a player is a "loser." If there's a trade that helps further the organizational goals of the team, then make it.
Justin Williams, Brooks Orpik, and Mike Richards were "winners." What did that get the Capitals?
You move a player for the good of the team. Not because some mouth breathers think that a player is a "loser." If there's a trade that helps further the organizational goals of the team, then make it.
Except you are forgetting one thing, not too long ago there was a time when our current core was free of that experience. History caught up to them. Looking back every core this team ever had had become tainted at one point or another because of choking. What makes you think that a new core won't be tainted eventually too? Or you just automatically assume that trading away our core will stop us from choking and we are going to make it past second round? All seems like wishful thinking but not based on much reality sir.
Gentleman, all I'm saying is careful what you wish for. You will never see a player like him play for your team ever again. And the day that he truly gives up on this team is the day that i will be here too saying its time for a trade. But not now. Not while he still has some gas left. Not after a subpar playoff performance due to injuries and not so good coaching decisions. Before i see Ovi leave the Caps i want just once, just one year to have a coach with SC experience that doesn't "rest" his players during the season to mask his love for plugs and grinders.....
Tweedsuitcase
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- Sep 28, 2009
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yes, those are great players
a) our line up *on paper* was good enough to win, especially against an injury-riddled Pens team
b) it's fun to NHL2k your roster, but who are the players you're talking about, and how would we get them?
c) you wanted kessel at the time of that trade? (He's never scored 40, btw) you don't think, say, kuznetsov would thrive sheltered on their roster like he is?
The roster isn't perfect, but i'm not sure "add the best players in the world" is a useful solution.
If it's not "between the ears" I'm really not sure where the problem is.
artilector
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- Jan 11, 2006
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My reaction... yawn. Too predictable to get angry about 
"We won't be as good next year, we don't see what we can really do about it, so just gonna emphasize keeping our young players, (re)sign who we can, hope for the best".
Even regarding Vegas, they seem to be in "que sera, sera" mode.
I guess what's left is -- enjoy Kuzy magic & the development of Wilson, Bura, etc in the regular season; wait for the usual puncher's chance in playoffs (if Holtby finally manages to outplay his counterpart(s) for the first time in 5 years).
I think now I am almost hoping Kuz & Orlov stay in Russia for a couple of years, and the rest of the gang mails it in enough to miss playoffs, dropping attendance. Even a forced retool might be better than a possible slow slide towards "good non-contender" status.
"We won't be as good next year, we don't see what we can really do about it, so just gonna emphasize keeping our young players, (re)sign who we can, hope for the best".
Even regarding Vegas, they seem to be in "que sera, sera" mode.
I guess what's left is -- enjoy Kuzy magic & the development of Wilson, Bura, etc in the regular season; wait for the usual puncher's chance in playoffs (if Holtby finally manages to outplay his counterpart(s) for the first time in 5 years).
I think now I am almost hoping Kuz & Orlov stay in Russia for a couple of years, and the rest of the gang mails it in enough to miss playoffs, dropping attendance. Even a forced retool might be better than a possible slow slide towards "good non-contender" status.
twabby
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Why do people think the Capitals were so good last (regular) season?
How much of this is going to really change?
I don't get why people think the team shouldn't be good again next season. Probably not 120 points, but this team should be over 100 again and squarely in contender status.
How much of this is going to really change?
I don't get why people think the team shouldn't be good again next season. Probably not 120 points, but this team should be over 100 again and squarely in contender status.
txpd
Registered User
They could be good. Lets say they are good. So what? They are right back where they have been. A team carrying the weight of almost yearly playoff failures without any success at all.
So, if they bring back the same basic crew with younger players stepping up into the top half of the lineup and new players filling roles, they are still the chokers. Lets say Tom Wilson scores 25 goals next season. He has still played a part in 4 straight playoff failures. Burakovsky and Kuzy 3 straight like Trotz. They are all poisoned by it.
txpd
Registered User
I am not forgetting that. Not at all. This era of players lost the fight to the history. In fact they played straight into it from their first series. They lost it when they lost to the Penguins the first time. They are a dynasty had they beaten the Pens, instead they are the same old Caps.
The history will always be there at it will weigh more at the start than it did for Ov and Backstrom because its been added on to. But it is still far less weight to carry that what the current group of players have to deal with.
Rerack em and start from scratch. Anything else....what they appear to have in mind as a for instance....is just a waste of time.
txpd
Registered User
That's a load of horse pucky. Did you hear what John Carlson said after? Carlson is a tainted loser. Backstrom is as tainted as Ovechkin. Several times thru their era Backstrom could have stepped up and gotten them over the hump. In every case they failed and him along with them. All of their current best players are poisoned by it. Williams would be effected by were he to stay. He is the game 7 clutch player of all time....except when he played for Washington.
They scored ZERO goals in game 7. Yea, Ovechkin didn't get one. Neither did Williams. The super hero Williams of the past would have scored 2 himself. Oshie, nothing. Kuzy 0. Burt squat. Nisky and Carlson and that big splash of a trade Shattenkirk scored bupkus.
artilector
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- Jan 11, 2006
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Caps will likely be weaker, Pens will likely be stronger (Letang, etc). Heck, even Toronto might improve enough to make it a coin-flip series next time.
This is the issue, in light of which calling the Caps contenders is a misnomer, IMO.
Yeah, they'll be good in the regular season... at this point that means very little to most of us.
