GDT: 5/13/18 - 8:00PM EDT - #1M Washington VS #1A Tampa Bay [ECF GAME 2]

[These Are The Days]

Boudreau's an example of why Coop's gonna get at least another year.

But eventually it has to come to an end though right? The Ducks were not really in the midst of a big change when they fired him and the Caps was a philosophical difference going from him to Hunter. But then of course they went with Oates...

 

[These Are The Days]

Oh and one more thing, if you're not convinced.

Jon Cooper (who you apparently don't like and think is bad) absolutely devoured AV's soul in games 5 and 7 in 2015.

Don't you remember that? Don't you remember how Cooper did the same thing for 120 minutes and AV just looked at it and cried?

Reading this like...

 

[DFC]

But eventually it has to come to an end though right? The Ducks were not really in the midst of a big change when they fired him and the Caps was a philosophical difference going from him to Hunter. But then of course they went with Oates...

The Ducks had at least one first round exit at the time they fired him. I think two. With them, it was more about not turning regular season success into playoff success, if I remember correctly.

Just saying. In the NHL, coaches don't get fired for not getting over that final hump. They get fired after they can no longer bring the team to that final hump. So it doesn't matter what we want or what we think SHOULD happen. Like I said, that's a different argument. I'm probably the first guy who called these two games a coaching problem, and I have a looong history of disliking Coop's decisions. That doesn't make it realistic for him to get fired right now. If he did, it would set an entirely new precedent in the NHL, or at least since I was old enough to comprehend the way the league works.

 

[Antiramie]

...I'm not a Cooper supporter. What I'm saying is, coaches don't get fired under these circumstances. At least none I can think of. I can want him fired or you can want him fired or whatever, but that doesn't make it realistic. If you can come up with a recent example of a coach who's been fired after setting a regular season record for points and then making the ECF, I'll agree that it's a plausible. But I just can't think of a coach who wasn't given at least a year or two after a season like this.

But you could also argue that getting swept (if that happens) under those circumstances is probably just as unprecedented.

There’s a first for everything in sports. Will Vinik likely take that risk? No. Are there countless examples of owners that didn’t and their team never went on to win a championship? Absolutely.

I’m agreeing with you that he won’t get fired. I’m just saying I would applaud the hell out of Vinik if he did.

 

[FinnLightning26]

Would Cooper have enough balls to start Domingue in game 3? Not that it would make a lick of difference if the guys in front of the goalie continue to play like this but Vasy seems like he's completely overwhelmed. I don't think Dom would allow more than six goals.

 

[DFC]

But you could also argue that getting swept (if that happens) under those circumstances is probably just as unprecedented.

There’s a first for everything in sports. Will Vinik likely take that risk? No. Are there countless examples of owners that didn’t and their team never went on to win a championship? Absolutely.

It's really not that unprecedented to get swept under these circumstances. It's not like sweeps never happen in the conference finals. As bad as a sweep would be, it's still the ECF. I can't think of a single coach who's been fired in the same season he made a conference final, so Yzerman, a guy who's known for mind-numbing patience, would have to be the first guy in recent history (or maybe all of NHL history?) to pull the trigger in this situation. I just really, really doubt he's gonna do that.

And you have to remember that, as a player, Yzerman went through disappointments far worse than this one. He played for a NHL record-setting team (62 wins) that got badly outplayed and bounced by the Colorado Avalanche in the WCF.

 

[T REX]

We're never gonna be this stacked.

We're never gonna be this healthy.

We're never gonna have this clear of path to the cup.

Yzerman knows it. He's built his whole GM career for this moment.

I can only imagine what's going through his head right now watching this team not be competitive for 2x straight home games in the ECF.

I agree. This was an "all in" year. Cooper fizzled again.

 

[Bolt 45]

Yeah. I'm just saying I think that's a coaching problem more than an effort problem. We look like we have no clue how to beat them.

There's plenty that falls on Coop's shoulders, I agree.

 

[DFC]

I agree. This was an "all in" year. Cooper fizzled again.

We didn't go all in. I doubt we ever will.

 

[Cmac66]

Well certainly wasn’t expecting this type of performance from the players in a conference final. Yzerman has done everything to make sure that the team are ready now. Whatever happens changes need to be made. Bowness should be out of a job come the end of the season been nothing short of embarrassing from him. Cooper will probably stay. He needs to drop the nice act and lay into the players cause they are potentially 2 games away from hitting the golf course.

 

[T REX]

We didn't go all in. I doubt we ever will.

I was referring to the trade for Mcdonagh and Miller. And Serge to a certain extent. If you don't think Yzerman was trying to win it all this year...can't help you.

 

[DFC]

I was referring to the trade for Mcdonagh and Miller. And Serge to a certain extent. If you don't think Yzerman was trying to win it all this year...can't help you.

I don't think you know what "all in" means in hockey terms then. Because that's a very different thing than trying to win it all.

 

[Antiramie]

It's really not that unprecedented to get swept under these circumstances. It's not like sweeps never happen in the conference finals. As bad as a sweep would be, it's still the ECF. I can't think of a single coach who's been fired in the same season he made a conference final, so Yzerman, a guy who's known for mind-numbing patience, would have to be the first guy in recent history (or maybe all of NHL history?) to pull the trigger in this situation. I just really, really doubt he's gonna do that.

And you have to remember that, as a player, Yzerman went through disappointments far worse than this one. He played for a NHL record-setting team (62 wins) that got badly outplayed and bounced by the Colorado Avalanche in the WCF.

Bylsma got fired the season after making the ECF and right after a 2nd round exit. Yes, it was after a GM change. But it was still a ballsy AF move at the time. And it was the right one to make.

Would firing a coach a season sooner or one round later be that big of a stretch by comparison?

 

[T REX]

I don't think you know what "all in" means in hockey terms then. Because that's a very different thing than trying to win it all.

My bad. Chalk it up to my 30+ years of watching hockey. I'm just a fan. You're right. I hope we extend Cooper for 10 years.

 

[DFC]

Bylsma got fired the season after making the ECF and right after a 2nd round exit. Yes, it was after a GM change. But it was still a ballsy AF move at the time. And it was the right one to make.

Once again, he got fired after the 2nd round exit, a step back. He didn't get fired the year they made the ECF. And yeah, new GM. So I guess I could buy that if Yzerman were somehow fired this off-season, Cooper could get fired with a second round exit next year. But that's all a very different scenario than firing him right now, directly after making an ECF.

 

[T REX]

DFC...all BS aside. Do you think Cooper will coach these guys to a cup? Yes or no.

 

[DFC]

DFC...all BS aside. Do you think Cooper will coach these guys to a cup? Yes or no.

Like I said, I wanted Cooper fired last year (and even then I didn't really believe it would happen). And at times the year before. You're mistaking me for a Cooper supporter when all I'm really saying is Yzerman's not going to fire him right now. There's a difference between what I want to happen and what I think will happen. I'm not sure if we can win a cup with Cooper. But even if I wanted him fired, and maybe I do, that doesn't mean it's likely to happen. I'm not defending Cooper at all here. I'm just saying Yzerman's very, very unlikely to be the first GM (that I know of) to fire a coach after setting a franchise record in points and making a conference final.

But like, even at the points when I REALLY wished we would fire Cooper, I had to acknowledge there was a difference between wanting him fired and thinking he would be. I think that's what's happening here. You want Cooper fired, and therefore think it has to be realistic to fire him. And maybe Yzerman will be the first guy to make that kind of move, but that just doesn't fit with Yzerman's M.O.

 

[Antiramie]

Once again, he got fired after the 2nd round exit, a step back. He didn't get fired the year they made the ECF. And yeah, new GM. So I guess I could buy that if Yzerman were somehow fired this off-season, Cooper could get fired with a second round exit next year. But that's all a very different scenario than firing him right now, directly after making an ECF.

And at one point a team from Florida had never won the Stanley Cup.

I never said there’s a good chance he will get fired. I actually stated that I agree in your assessment that he won’t. But I don’t think it’s 100% out of the question that he won’t, as unprecedented as it might be.

 

[DFC]

And at one point a team from a Florida had never won the Stanley Cup.

...And neither of those Florida teams ever fired their coach after making an ECF?

 

[Bolt 45]

I'm not happy with what I've seen coaching-wise this series, but a lot of the guys on this team have essentially only ever played professionally for Coop. Bringing in a new coach would be risky, because there's no way to know whether he would be able to extract what Coop has out of guys like Killer, TJ, Palat, and others. It's a move that's as likely to backfire as it is to make a positive difference. Coop is part of the fabric of this team, for better or for worse. Parting ways with Coop would likely signal something of a rebuild in which we would also be moving on from a number of key players from the past few years.

 

[DFC]

I'm not happy with what I've seen coaching-wise this series, but a lot of the guys on this team have essentially only ever played professionally for Coop. Bringing in a new coach would be risky, because there's no way to know whether he would be able to extract what Coop has out of guys like Killer, TJ, Palat, and others. It's a move that's as likely to backfire as it is to make a positive difference. Coop is part of the fabric of this team, for better or for worse. Parting ways with Coop would likely signal something of a rebuild in which we would also be moving on from a number of key players from the past few years.

We're still a remarkably young team for the amount of success we've had.

 

[Antiramie]

Have things that have never happened before happened? Yes? Ok then there’s a chance. Can we stop this back and forth and agree that it almost certainly won’t happen but isn’t impossible?

 

[LonLon Lei]

that mysterious "some reason"

 

[Antiramie]

We're still a remarkably young team for the amount of success we've had.

We’re actually in the upper half for average age in the NHL. I think we were the 2nd or 3rd oldest team of the 8 last round.

 

[Bolt 45]

We're still a remarkably young team for the amount of success we've had.

True.