GDT: 5/13/18 - 8:00PM EDT - #1M Washington VS #1A Tampa Bay [ECF GAME 2]

[DFC]

I'd be SHOCKED if Yzerman doesn't speak. These aren't your typical back to back losses. These were something else. Panic button is hit.

Maybe. I can't think of examples of him speaking after big losses, or wins for that matter. Usually he tries to stay in the background, and then every once in a while some reporter will catch up to him at practice or something.

 

[Antiramie]

It's sad that you apparently think we're GMing the team. There's a difference between what we want to happen and what's realistic. If Yzerman fires Cooper, it would set a new precedent. I can't think of a coach whose ever been fired in these circumstances.

Vigneault is the closest comparison I can think of. Made the playoffs 10/12 years, 2 SCF appearances, 1 CF appearance...fired twice in that span.

You either think Cooper has what it takes or you don’t. A lot of people thought it was crazy Dungy got fired, and he was a better coach than Gruden. But sometimes a culture change is what it takes to get a team to the next level.

 

[T REX]

...I'm not a Cooper supporter. What I'm saying is, coaches don't get fired under these circumstances. At least none I can think of. I can want him fired or you can want him fired or whatever, but that doesn't make it realistic. If you can come up with a recent example of a coach who's been fired after setting a regular season record for points and then making the ECF, I'll agree that it's a plausible. But I just can't think of a coach who wasn't given at least a year or two after a season like this.

So he gets next year? That's basically saying "dead man walking".

This is the defintion of insanity. And I apologize if I am coming off like a jerk but we are wasting precious time. This is a CUP roster and Cooper is a Calder coach...nothing more.

 

[These Are The Days]

No precedent to fire Coop eh? BBQ Bruce says challenge accepted

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Maybe. I can't think of examples of him speaking after big losses, or wins for that matter. Usually he tries to stay in the background, and then every once in a while some reporter will catch up to him at practice or something.

True, but this seems too much like a franchise turning moment. All he built. The situation we are currently in. Down 0-2 heading on the road in the fashion we got beat - this is a franchise altering moment. You can feel it. He built this whole thing for this scenario. I doubt he sits back and watches it all get squandered away with out speaking up.

 

[DFC]

Vigneault is the closest comparison I can think of. Made the playoffs 10/12 years, 2 SCF appearances, 1 CF appearance...fired twice in that span.

You either think Cooper has what it takes or you don’t. A lot of people thought it was crazy Dungy got fired, and he was a better coach than Gruden. But sometimes a culture change is what it takes to get a team to the next level.

Yeah, but Vigneault's a good example of why Cooper's unlikely to get fired. He was fired after a first round exit in Vancouver, and fired after NYR didn't make the playoffs.

I have a long record of criticizing Cooper. I'd probably be happy to see him fired. I just think it's very, very, very unrealistic at this point.

 

[Hoek]

Our 4th line outplayed the Ovechkin line and that was mostly through forechecking them to death. Not sure why the other lines think they are above that.

If Alain Vigneault is your best suggestion for replacing Cooper then he's definitely not going anywhere.

 

[DFC]

No precedent to fire Coop eh? BBQ Bruce says challenge accepted

Boudreau's an example of why Coop's gonna get at least another year.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

We're never gonna be this stacked.

We're never gonna be this healthy.

We're never gonna have this clear of path to the cup.

Yzerman knows it. He's built his whole GM career for this moment.

I can only imagine what's going through his head right now watching this team not be competitive for 2x straight home games in the ECF.

 

[Cigar City]

 

[Lightning1995]

We're never gonna be this stacked.

We're never gonna be this healthy.

We're never gonna have this clear of path to the cup.

Yzerman knows it. He's built his whole GM career for this moment.

I can only imagine what's going through his head right now watching this team not be competitive for 2x straight home games in the ECF.

Well said

 

[DFC]

So he gets next year? That's basically saying "dead man walking".

This is the defintion of insanity. And I apologize if I am coming off like a jerk but we are wasting precious time. This is a CUP roster and Cooper is a Calder coach...nothing more.

You might not like it, but this is how things work in hockey. That's all I'm saying. There's no example in recent history, at least none I can think of, of a coach getting fired in similar circumstances.

 

[DFC]

True, but this seems too much like a franchise turning moment. All he built. The situation we are currently in. Down 0-2 heading on the road in the fashion we got beat - this is a franchise altering moment. You can feel it. He built this whole thing for this scenario. I doubt he sits back and watches it all get squandered away with out speaking up.

I'm not so sure about that. Especially since you're talking about Steve Yzerman, a guy who won his first cup at age 32, after some playoff disappointments/embarrassments that make our current situation feel like a walk in the park. It's Cooper's job to deal with the media right now, and Stamkos's.

 

[Master P]

...I'm not a Cooper supporter. What I'm saying is, coaches don't get fired under these circumstances. At least none I can think of. I can want him fired or you can want him fired or whatever, but that doesn't make it realistic. If you can come up with a recent example of a coach who's been fired after setting a regular season record for points and then making the ECF, I'll agree that it's a plausible. But I just can't think of a coach who wasn't given at least a year or two after a season like this.

Didn't the pens fire their coach two different times and then go on to win a cup both times?

 

[Flat Ronnie]

I'm not so sure about that. Especially since you're talking about Steve Yzerman, a guy who won his first cup at age 32, after some playoff disappointments/embarrassments that make our current situation feel like a walk in the park. It's Cooper's job to deal with the media right now, and Stamkos's.

I'm talking about him speaking to the team, not the media.

 

[Antiramie]

Yeah, but Vigneault's a good example of why Cooper's unlikely to get fired. He was fired after a first round exit in Vancouver, and fired after NYR didn't make the playoffs.

I have a long record of criticizing Cooper. I'd probably be happy to see him fired. I just think it's very, very, very unrealistic at this point.

I used Vigneault more or less as an example of what waiting too long will do. But he still had an amazing track record and eventually got canned. Obviously it’s a hindsight is 20/20 situation, but when the same coaching deficiencies (not shooting, questionable line pairings, inability to adapt in-game, etc) flare up during every playoff exit it’s not ludicrous to consider a change if Cooper is deemed the variable holding us back.

Do I think it’s reasonable to give him another year? Yes. Do I think it’s just as risky as firing him after this year? Yes.

 

[DFC]

I'm talking about him speaking to the team, not the media.

OH, sorry, my fault. I think when you said "we" I assumed you meant us, the fans. And yeah, that wouldn't surprise me.

 

[DFC]

Didn't the pens fire their coach two different times and then go on to win a cup both times?

Yeah, but not in a situation anything like ours.

 

[FinnLightning26]

We're never gonna be this stacked.

We're never gonna be this healthy.

We're never gonna have this clear of path to the cup.

Yzerman knows it. He's built his whole GM career for this moment.

I can only imagine what's going through his head right now watching this team not be competitive for 2x straight home games in the ECF.

Yeah, it feels like everything is set up for us to win it all but they're just choking it away. What a joke.

 

[DFC]

I used Vigneault more or less as an example of what waiting too long will do. But he still had an amazing track record and got canned after padding his resume heavily. Obviously it’s a hindsight is 20/20 situation, but when the same coaching deficiencies (not shooting, questionable line pairings, inability to adapt in-game, etc) flare up during every playoff exit it’s not ludicrous to consider a change.

What I'm saying is there's no precedent for it. Vigneault's story is pretty common: a coach has a fair amount of success, can't win the big one, and then gets fired AFTER the success starts to recede. That happens all the time. What never happens is a coach getting fired when the team is making conference finals and setting regular season points records. The closest example I can think of is Ted Nolan, but even that wasn't the kind of success we're having, and it came down to a clash of personalities between he and a franchise player.

 

[Bolt 45]

I don't think you're giving the Caps enough credit. This doesn't look like a matter of effort to me. At least not in the first two periods. It looked more like we had no idea how to deal with their structure, but we kept trying to same things over and over.

I mean, you're right. Washington's playing well. But at the same time they look about the way I'd expect a trap team with guys like Ovie and Kuznetsov to look. We're getting beaten, but we're also playing against the trap. In 2018. Might as well call it like it is. It makes for a different kind of disappointing, I'll say that much.

 

[Lightning1995]

Game 3 what the hell adjusments....

Give me TKO
Stammer, Point, Gourde
Cirelli, Miller, Killer get 10 minutes or less. I’m not against putting Conacher in for any one of them.
Give me Serge with Stralls in the top 4
Give me less McDonagh
Give me Vassy on the bench if he gives up one softy.

It’s worth a shot. Teams with 2-0 leads have won over 95% of ECFs.

 

[Machinehead]

@Machinehead I'll leave this one to you

*pours whiskey and waits for sermon*

Prepare for something amazing

*sips like a Kermit meme*

He's the worst coach in pro sports. Put Team Canada in the NHL with AV as coach and they'll have a sub-50% corsi.

He healthy scratched Henrik Lundqvist. I could end the rant right there.

But he also literally coaches players not to shoot, literally doesn't cycle (seriously), runs a 0-5, coaches both D to chase behind the net, sits on 1-0 leads two minutes into the game, and literally despises talent.

More over, he's completely unaware of all this and thinks the fact that 30 NHL coaches doing things he doesn't do (like f***ing cycle) means he has the perfect system. He's always smug about it to the media and throws his players under the bus when his flawless system doesn't go 82-0.

In his last interview after game 82 this year, he threw the entire team and the GM to the wolves for not executing his system. He was fired the same day. Not in the summer, not on breakup day, but hours after the season ended. That should tell you something.

And people always bring up talent. Give me a f***ing break. You guys remember MSL. He couldn't crack our top six. We had the talent. AV inherited one of the best teams in the NHL and took them to a rebuild in 4 years.

If you want to see the Lightning play the most passive hockey you've ever seen under a horrendous human being and blow every lead they get, be my guest. I like you guys so I hope that doesn't happen.

 

[DFC]

I mean, you're right. Washington's playing well. But at the same time they look about the way I'd expect a trap team with guys like Ovie and Kuznetsov to look. We're getting beaten, but we're also playing against the trap. In 2018. Might as well call it like it is. It makes for a different kind of disappointing, I'll say that much.

Yeah. I'm just saying I think that's a coaching problem more than an effort problem. We look like we have no clue how to beat them.

 

[Machinehead]

Oh and one more thing, if you're not convinced.

Jon Cooper (who you apparently don't like and think is bad) absolutely devoured AV's soul in games 5 and 7 in 2015.

Don't you remember that? Don't you remember how Cooper did the same thing for 120 minutes and AV just looked at it and cried?