Post-Game Talk: #4 | Oilers at Flyers | October 19, 2023 | Flyers win 4-1

[CutOnDime97]

Nightmare (likely) scenario is they think they can make the playoffs and compete and won't sell off the Vets. Definitely happening

 

[flyerslducks]

Nightmare (likely) scenario is they think they can make the playoffs and compete and won't sell off the Vets. Definitely happening

I mean we got the 7th pick without couts/Atkinson, no brink/forester, more anchors in our lineup. We easily gunna be 10-14

 

[usahockey22flyers]

How is our PP somehow worse than last year? Absolutely abysmal.

Shout out to Coots, his line was rock solid against 97.

We win! Yay….

 

[kudymen]

Just checking, do October games matter?

 

[Magua]

I've been firmly in the camp that they might improve this season. Provorov and Hayes were net neutral players. They just played a lot -- their on-ice value wasn't positive. DeAngelo was a supreme negative. Sanheim was not going to be as bad as last year (Krug wouldn't waive his NTC or he'd be gone gone gone!). Couturier, barring health, might quadruple the value of everyone lost. Add in Atkinson, Walker, better 4th liners, rookies, scratch Frost. But you never know, maybe that changes when a healthy Ristolainen is back playing 22 minutes a night.

This is the phoniest rebuild to end all phony rebuilds. They say the word to appease fans. But they positioned themselves to not sell off anything of real value, while keeping expectations in check. Now, the coaches are still abysmal, there's holes, and injuries likely occur. But they put themselves in position to finish higher in the standings, with rookies playing part-time, and then will use that as proof the rebuild is actually further along than thought, the culture is improved, yada yada.

 

[deadhead]

I think Briere will play the season by ear. He's not going to take a short spurt at the beginning of the season seriously, though if Couts and Atkinson are 100%, with Hart and Ersson in goal, this team is not going to be bottom ten, like it or not.

So far Couts looks like the 1C he was before the injury, that changes things, b/c that Couts is good enough to anchor the rebuild.

Brink looks like he's locked down a top 9 spot, probably with Cates b/c a nice overlap, Brink can be the play driver and Cates can cover any defensive deficiencies he might have. York and Brink instead of Caufield is starting to look like a really good decision.

I'd like to see Tippett - Frost - TK as a speed line, Farabee - Couts - Atkinson as the scoring line.

York - Sanheim have been solid so far as the first pair, the rest of the defense will be a work in progress (or an attempt to avoid anarchy), I think Zamula has beat out Andrae at LHD, and right now they'll go with Risto and Walker at RHD. So that leaves one LHD spot.

Foerster and Andrae need to play every day, Foerster doesn't need to be forced to play on the left side, and you're not sitting Atkinson, TK or Brink. Andrae is still adjusting to NA hockey.

Things change, injuries, trades, the lineup in April may be very different.
There's a middle ground where they move out veterans when a kid is clearly ready, but outside of Laughton, none of their veterans are going to garner a major return.
Hart depends on the report and whether Ersson is ready to start, and someone is ready to back up for him.

No one in Carolina complained that they didn't trade all the veterans for draft picks - if they turn out to be a good team without signing or trading for veterans (Hathaway and Staal don't count, think Ottawa signing G, Tarasenko, Korpisalo), what, me worry?

 

[tnfrs]

They could play Frost on left wing, hes probably a better a left wing than cates is at center. cates was 66% percent on draws tonight which seems like a fun number until you see Coot's 38% and realize Cates deployment as a center is so sheltered he might have been homeschooled

 

[deadhead]

They could play Frost on left wing, hes probably a better a left wing than cates is at center. cates was 66% percent on draws tonight which seems like a fun number until you see Coot's 38% and realize Cates deployment as a center is so sheltered he might have been homeschooled

Cates and Frost should be sheltered, though Cates was going against RNH, a #1 pick.
This is where a healthy Couts makes a huge difference.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Cates and Frost had good chemistry together but for years this team has opposed that kind of thing for reasons even God is baffled by.

 

[MorgantiDrinksBlood]

I guess, this is fine. Coots has a great year and we trade him idk by next year. Our window really will only open in 3-4 years. Michkov can be the best player on a championship team, in what kind of prospect he is. I don't know what's going to happen but that's factual if you actually watch you know this to be true. Honestly wish we'd stop winning but its out of our control.

 

[smokey]

I've been firmly in the camp that they might improve this season. Provorov and Hayes were net neutral players. They just played a lot -- their on-ice value wasn't positive. DeAngelo was a supreme negative. Sanheim was not going to be as bad as last year (Krug wouldn't waive his NTC or he'd be gone gone gone!). Couturier, barring health, might quadruple the value of everyone lost. Add in Atkinson, Walker, better 4th liners, rookies, scratch Frost. But you never know, maybe that changes when a healthy Ristolainen is back playing 22 minutes a night.

My thoughts exactly. On paper this team might actually be stronger than last years team, so without extracting any further talent, we're probably going back to that no-mans-land-bubble-team shit with no chances of getting a top pick.

Team is playing good and to their strengths rn though. Can't take that away from them. Once the other teams get their game together and the Tortorella training camp effect runs out, we'll probably find our place in the bottom 15.

 

[eramosat]

The game was entertaining to watch. The team is doing ok. Good for my viewing entertainment...all the plans to defnitievly play certain players and trade others, that's above my pay grade, I watch for fun.

But I do think limited success we're seeing now can only bode well for the types of plans the board wants in place. Good starts, and seasons, from all sorts of assets lead to increased trade interest, and trade value. Good seasons from new players also re-inforce the concept that they can hold their own in the NHL, and get playing time while contributing to a minimum overall team skill level required for continued development. And further reinforce the idea that Laughtons and Atkinsons, and maybe Hathaways or Walkers/Seeler and any others can actually be traded away for future value whilst the team remains NHL competitive. I hope that is the plan.

And also that Briere saves all of his accumulating cap space for the very best possible trade deal he can figure out. AN Ottawa first to take on Mathieu Joseph was an interesting idea, but I bet better ideas will come along

Getting rid of that 4th line will be tough. It can only start with one new player getting time with them, and seeing if they can be effective playing that singularly rough style, or morphing it into something else, who knows if that's possible. But it's definitely doable, especially if the other lines pull their weight. And if two new players head down there, and become effective, voila, all your favourite forward prospects could be on the ice. If we walk away from players and contracts like Hayes and DeAngelo, and pickup trash like Petersen in cap swaps, dumping 2 more years of Deslauriers at $1.75k is trivial.

Staal's journey to the pressbox should just be a matter of time, as long as Andrae and Zemula continue on this path.

Frost is a victim of chemistry right now, he should be back in the lineup to show his abilities soon.

Couts is, fingers crossed, kinda back! While that's not good for draft picks, it's great for the team. And since he ain't getting traded anytime soon, at all, might as well enjoy it. If he along with Hart single-handedly tank our chances at a Top 3 pick, well, so be it. It's just part of the insane puzzle Flyers have boxed themselves into, that only time AND prudent decisions from here on out can repair.

 

[gto64dr]

We all know this team is not a contender yet. Just enjoy some hockey and see if we make some progress in the right direction. I'm tired of hearing the same old hate towards the team and management. I'm pretty sure the management would like to get back to winning.

 

[deadhead]

Carolina and CBJ both built winners without tanking.

The difference was CBJ spent a lot of assets trying to get over the top, and spiraled back down after Torts left, Carolina traded for Hamilton but then let him walk, they've been disciplined, and haven't let winning seduce them off their long-term strategy.

The key is patience, don't let a few wins or even a playoff run distract you from a long-term strategy of accumulating assets and building an organization deep in talent that can navigate the cap and stay competitive year after year.

Cheap veterans are fine b/c they don't bleed assets or cost long-term cap room. And are easily discarded.
What you have to avoid are big, long-term contracts to 2nd tier players (AMac, Weise, JVR, Hayes), trading assets for 2nd tier players (Risto, TDA), and other moves that box you into a corner.

 

[Cody Webster]

"though Cates was going against RNH, a #1 pick."

Glamouring about going against a #1 pick from 12 years ago, as if that means absolutely anything

The lengths we go is absolutely amazing. I can't take it

Columbus built a winner without tanking might be an even better take than Cates shutting down a #1 pick

Thar amazing 3 season run by Columbus really made them a winner

 

[deadhead]

"though Cates was going against RNH, a #1 pick."

Glamouring about going against a #1 pick from 12 years ago, as if that means absolutely anything

The lengths we go is absolutely amazing. I can't take it

Columbus built a winner without tanking might be an even better take than Cates shutting down a #1 pick

Thar amazing 3 season run by Columbus really made them a winner

They got there after 4 losing seasons by adding Sam Gagner, of all people.
Then they started wheeling and dealing instead of building from within.
That's why it only lasted 3 seasons.

RNH is a talented veteran center, he's never lived up to #1 status, but he's been a decent 2C.
Neither Cates or Frost should be matched up against 1Cs at this point in their careers.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

COLUMBUS BUILT A WINNER NOW HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[flyersnorth]

Another solid game.

Brink was a ball of energy and made a lot of really smart plays.

Tippett, Coots, Hart, TK, Farabee noticeable all night.

Didn't pay too much attention to Andrae other than his braindead pass in front of Hart that almost resulted in a goal against. He seems to have at least one of those per game.

I was entertained.

 

[Curufinwe]

How is our PP somehow worse than last year? Absolutely abysmal.

Shout out to Coots, his line was rock solid against 97.

We win! Yay….

Rocky was just getting started last season. Now he's a contender - for worst PP coach of all time.

 

[SnS]

Jesus Christ.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

Ever present:

 

[mr4tno]

I guess, this is fine. Coots has a great year and we trade him idk by next year. Our window really will only open in 3-4 years. Michkov can be the best player on a championship team, in what kind of prospect he is. I don't know what's going to happen but that's factual if you actually watch you know this to be true. Honestly wish we'd stop winning but its out of our control.

Couturier appears to be back, which is not what I thought would happen. However, even at 100% anyone trading for him is not looking at this. The smart, forward-thinking GMs are looking at.....
1. age 34 year when he has even more mileage and still has 4 years at 7.75
2. 66% of contract is signing bonus making buyouts essentially impossible

 

[deadhead]

Couturier appears to be back, which is not what I thought would happen. However, even at 100% anyone trading for him is not looking at this. The smart, forward-thinking GMs are looking at.....
1. age 34 year when he has even more mileage and still has 4 years at 7.75
2. 66% of contract is signing bonus making buyouts essentially impossible

I don't think he's going anywhere, if the back holds up, he'll age gracefully - most of his game is predicated on his off the chart IQ, not his exceptional skill package. And he's the perfect mentor to a young team. In four years, the cap will be $100M, and that $7.75M will be fine for a 2C.

 

[Rebels57]

They've had a good first 10 games the last 2 seasons while the rest of the league is figuring shit out. Then reality hits them like a wrecking ball and they are shit show the rest of the season. This season will be no different.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

COLUMBUS BUILT A WINNER NOW HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA