Post-Game Talk: #39 | Penguins 5 at FLYERS 1 | Tue., Jan. 2, 2018, 7:00 pm ET

Striiker

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But his positives have other decisions tied to them that make me wonder just as much. This isn't just Hakstol. He hired Gordon too.

Which prospects have been handled well once they reach the org? It's not enough to identify them. Development is vital.

Let's not forget that PEB contract. That was absolutely brutal and he got bailed out.

I don't care about wins and losses. I don't care what he says in the media. What is there that you can honestly point to and say Hextall has done well outside of amateur scouting and clearing out the cap? Those are crucial elements, but they only get you so far. The big one you can shine a spotlight on is finding Gudas, but they're hell bent on minimizing the impact of that acquisition with plugs. There's always a Dale Weise to the Lecavalier trade.

If I saw an overall plan that made sense, I would be a full-on apologist for the interceding roughness. I wish I did.

There's plenty of things he's done well.

His trades have also always been good. Especially ones where he was gathering draft picks for mostly trash players, Timonen, Coburn, Rinaldo, L.Schenn, Lecavalier, and Streit. This shows that he seems to understand the right way to build a modern day team (drafting) and he recognized how bad those guys were. Even if we don't give him credit for the actual drafting, he deserves credit for properly using the scouts by giving them lots of picks to work with and trusting their calls.

He's also done a good job at re-signing current players. I'm happy with the contracts he's given to guys like Gudas, Couturier, Ghost, Raffl, Schenn, and Voracek.

Not all of his outside additions have been bad. Signing Elliott was fine, MDZ was good to start, Neuvirth has been good when he's actually played, and Schultz was an OK placeholder/#7.

Even the guys on the team we don't like were added for a good reason. Without the benefit of hindsight: Lehtera sucks but I'd still make that trade again, Weise made sense, and getting Filppula was a good move (especially when you consider that we didn't have Patrick at the time) and all we lost was a corpse.

His biggest failure is easily Hakstol, but he still has time to fix that so long as he doesn't start next year as coach.
 
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JojoTheWhale

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May 22, 2008
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There's plenty of things he's done well.

His trades have also always been good. Especially ones where he was gathering draft picks for mostly trash players, Timonen, Coburn, Rinaldo, L.Schenn, Lecavalier, and Streit. This shows that he seems to understand the right way to build a modern day team (drafting) and he recognized how bad those guys were. Even if we don't give him credit for the actual drafting, he deserves credit for properly using the scouts by giving them lots of picks to work with and trusting their calls.

I’m definitely willing to give him the credit for the drafting. The scouts deserve credit too, but ultimately he has to listen to them.

The trades have been good, but until the Schenn deal, they’ve been the easiest type of deal to make. I have X asset that’s out the door. Solicit bids for picks. Choose the best one. This falls under a partial credit umbrella for me.

He's also done a good job at re-signing current players. I'm happy with the contracts he's given to guys like Gudas, Couturier, Ghost, Raffl, Schenn, and Voracek.

This is fair and should be added in his column as a big positive overall. The negatives far outweigh the positives. That’s all you can ask.

The Schenn contract is an interesting one, though. It was somewhere between fair and a touch high the day it was signed.

Not all of his outside additions have been bad. Signing Elliott was fine, MDZ was good to start, Neuvirth has been good when he's actually played, and Schultz was an OK placeholder/#7.

MDZ was indeed a good addition at relative cost — both the initial one year deal and the 2 year second one made total sense no matter how they turned out.

Schultz was a good acquisition initially, then he overestimated what the market would do and gave him the 2 year deal that turned out to be an overpayment immediately. A good acquisition that turned into and understandable mistake. Neuvirth was a bit of the same. He has the room to make those mistakes now. If he paid more because he knew cap was irrelevant in the short-term, fair enough. But we’re going to be pushing up against it in a few years and those deals have to go away.

Even the guys on the team we don't like were added for a good reason. Without the benefit of hindsight: Lehtera sucks but I'd still make that trade again, Weise made sense, and getting Filppula was a good move (especially when you consider that we didn't have Patrick at the time) and all we lost was a corpse.

His biggest failure is easily Hakstol, but he still has time to fix that so long as he doesn't start next year as coach.

I don’t even count Lehtera as an acquisition. He was the cost of doing business. I don’t hold Umberger against him for the same reason.

I don’t think we’re ever going to agree on Filppula because I have such a wildly different view of their opinion of him that it’s hard to find a reasonable talking point. If I did think the same, I would understand being fine with it.

The problem with Weise on July 1st was the contract. You don’t go 4 years at a premium on 4th line Wingers. What’s the benefit?

To be clear, the point I was making was what overall balances out to a positive. Of course there have been individual moves that were fantastic.

The biggest takeaway from your post for me was the lack of pointing to meaningful in-house development. No matter how good your drafting is, at some point you need to equip these kids with the mechanisms to keep improving.

Here’s a serious question for you (and anyone else): Do you think Hextall believes the path the org took to develop Couturier after Hextall returned was overall correct or incorrect? Also, does the “Filppula freed him up” narrative exist in his mind? Starting it then removes the issue of starting on the 4th line in his teens with supermassive black holes surrounding him.
 

Striiker

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The biggest takeaway from your post for me was the lack of pointing to meaningful in-house development. No matter how good your drafting is, at some point you need to equip these kids with the mechanisms to keep improving.
Well I didn't mention the development because I think it's too early to really judge it. We don't know who's going to pan out and who won't yet, so it's tough to say if he did the right thing.

Would I do some things different? Yeah, but if the prospects end up as great players then who's to say he was wrong?
 
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Delete99991

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Re: Hextall - how about adding a little physicality up front? Something?

I mean, how good would Ryan Reaves look on this team?
 
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deadhead

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I don't get the big deal, it's not like the guys who'll probably sit for him were any better than VdV, and look how he got slammed last year. Lehtera is worse actually, and Leier couldn't beat him out last year and now we know why.
Goul gets a cameo, maybe he runs with it, maybe he's just another stiff. So what.

The key players on the Phantoms won't be called up until Hextall thinks they're ready to start the rest of the season, Lindblom and NAK aren't coming up for a 4-5 game "look see." When they come up, he'll have probably already set up a trade to move someone off the roster.
 

Striiker

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Jun 2, 2013
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I don't get the big deal, it's not like the guys who'll probably sit for him were any better than VdV, and look how he got slammed last year. Lehtera is worse actually, and Leier couldn't beat him out last year and now we know why.
Goul gets a cameo, maybe he runs with it, maybe he's just another stiff. So what.

The key players on the Phantoms won't be called up until Hextall thinks they're ready to start the rest of the season, Lindblom and NAK aren't coming up for a 4-5 game "look see." When they come up, he'll have probably already set up a trade to move someone off the roster.
Leier is obviously better than Lehtera, VDV, or Goul. Not debatable.
 
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LegionOfDoom91

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Jan 25, 2013
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There’s so much going on there that I absolutely love. Beyond the obvious, Manning with the lone carry exit is picturesque.

The best part of that pairing is Hak definitely thinks it’s a great idea. Not that I’m complaining though as this is essentially a lost season & he’s helping the draft position at worst.
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Leier is obviously better than Lehtera, VDV, or Goul. Not debatable.

Sure it's debatable.
Leier is more skilled, he's also soft as a marshmallow, a 4th line winger who can't score and doesn't hit is a pretty marginal NHL player.
 

Striiker

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Sure it's debatable.
Leier is more skilled, he's also soft as a marshmallow, a 4th line winger who can't score and doesn't hit is a pretty marginal NHL player.
None of them can score and hitting is useless. At least he can contribute to keeping a team trapped in their end. Raffl, Laughton, and Leier did a good job together. They spent more time in the opponents end than in their own... and the other three make it harder to do so out of incompetence.
 

Striiker

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Since when?

If a player is physically overwhelmed at the NHL level, as Leier appears to be at times, he's a liability

You hit when you don't have the puck, usually just after the player has passed it. What does that accomplish?


Look at Hagg. 2nd in the league in hits and absolutely awful. You know why he gets so many hits? Because he never has the puck. Then when he does get it, his peanut brain gives it right back (unless his partner saves him).

Look at the rest of the league hit leaders... very few of them are worth a damn.

I like a good hit as much as anyone, but when it comes to winning or losing hockey games, a player who only hits doesn't deserve a spot. If a player is a good hockey player AND hits, then great, I'm all for it... but that's not the case here so saying "well he hits!" is meaningless.
 

Delete99991

Registered User
May 9, 2013
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Look at Hagg. 2nd in the league in hits and absolutely awful. You know why he gets so many hits? Because he never has the puck. Then when he does get it, his peanut brain gives it right back (unless his partner saves him).

Oh man. Give it a rest.

Dude must be the worst +12 of all time
 

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