Post-Game Talk: #39 | FLYERS (A) vs. Islanders (H) | Thursday, Apr. 8, 2021 | Loss 3-2 SO (1-0)

[Striiker]

Please tell us what precisely Hagg is doing individually to drive play?

This is exactly what people can't answer.

He can't move the puck, he can't skate the puck out, and he can't even hold his own when his teammates/coaches get him to the offensive zone. So the "corsi for" and "expected goals for" portion of each stat isn't even being done by him.

He has all the negatives of a poor defensive player with none of the positives of an offensive player or puck mover. His marquee skill is being liked by bad coaches and the broadcast team.

 

[Beef Invictus]

That's what a defensive defenseman does. It has worked well for Braun this year, though he may have had dead legs last night, he's been overused and it may be catching up to him.

Is it sustainable for Hagg this time? Only one way to find out. Nothing to lose, season is over, but you could inflate Hagg's trade value.

Hagg applies this principle to defense too. He's just bad.

 

[kudymen]

3) might actually be a useful player going forward.

Our coaching staff damaged me so much that I first read this as Hagg going to RW

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hagg playing well to finish the season is a good thing on many levels:
1) might tempt someone to trade for him by Monday
2) might tempt Seattle to take him over Morin
3) might actually be a useful player going forward.

Don't fall for 3. He goes on a lucky bender annually. He sucks terribly for 3/4 of the season outside of that. Remember the playoffs? That's what happens when he tricks coaches into trusting him based on the results of those around him. Eventually, inevitably, he gets exposed as a fraud.

 

[marcsson68]

Can anybody sort out how the Flyers have been with and without Hägg in the lineup? (W-L-OT)
I don‘t know how to do that without looking at each individual game stat.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Example: Myers. Last season he was having a lot of great results. But his actual processes were habitually sketchy, to the point where it was impossible to explain why things were going so well. Well, this year he has regressed hard. I mean, he's also following worse processes to boot, but shy of an overhaul of his actual on-ice play a regression was always likely.

Hagg follows the same principle. Aside from last night where he had actual positive plays, on any given night he may have no positive plays; and this is most commonly the case. His on-ice processes are AHL level. So when his numbers start looking good and there's no real reason for it based on what he actually does on the ice, it's deeply unwise to trust that he's suddenly reformed himself into a new being. Nothing sustainable is happening.

 

[marcsson68]

Much Ado About Nothing - the Voracek story.
Just cracks me up, Hayes uses his body to enter the zone, skates around for 30 seconds, forces a pass that's intercepted, he sucks.
Voracek uses his body to enter the zone, skates around the O-zone for 45 seconds, gets stripped of the puck, what a great effort!
The real problem is Voracek's O-skills are better suited to center, and Hayes to RW. They were switched at birth and we're stuck with the consequences.

There are two very true things within this post:

1.
Most people are not using the same measures for players they support and for those they dislike. Doesn‘t matter if it is Voracek, Hayes, Ghost, Hägg or whoever arises controversy.
2.
Most people use stats to prove their preoccupation for or against a player. If the stats don’t help, then all of the sudden it is the eye test that counts more.
The truth lies somewhere in between.

Regarding Voracek I think he now has a similar „value“ to the team as Hayes. Sometimes they make you mad, sometimes their quality flashes.

But Voracek is a hero of the past, a very likeable player, a nice guy. In people‘s mind this still is in the mix.

 

[deadhead]

Hagg has never had a stretch as good as he's played since the COVID break.
Is it sustainable? Only one way to find out. Play the man!

It's not like we have anything to lose other than better draft position.

 

[Beef Invictus]

But hey, at least we had the weirdass bounce go in the net in our favor for once.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hagg has never had a stretch as good as he's played since the COVID break.
Is it sustainable? Only one way to find out. Play the man!

It's not like we have anything to lose other than better draft position.

I'd rather start seeing what York can do. We are thoroughly aware of what Hagg is.

He isn't following better processes, so we know he isn't actually better. A "great" game for Hagg is one where he has 4 or 5 plays that most dmen make routinely and are not a big deal when they do them. But it feels like a big deal for Boss Hogg because even routine plays are a big upgrade over his norm.

 

[deadhead]

York should stay in LHV for now, let him get acclimated without pressure.

 

[Beef Invictus]

York should stay in LHV for now, let him get acclimated without pressure.

Gordon doesn't acclimate anyone to the NHL. Gordonian hockey is actually detrimental to this. He'd be better off playing even in this defensive dumpster fire than he would be atrophying any zone exit skills he has by just flinging the puck around in an aimless stretch system that's even less structured than AV's.

 

[Hanover Fist]

Jake can be frustrating but Hayes isn’t half the player he is and the” stats prove it

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Jake can be frustrating but Hayes isn’t half the player he is and the” stats prove it

Also, isn't it fun when AV talks shit about Jake but when he helps put the team on his back, AV says nothing?

 

[deadhead]

Jake can be frustrating but Hayes isn’t half the player he is and the” stats prove it

Actually they don't.
Hayes has much better metrics.

ES: G/1st A/2nd As
Hayes 8/8/2
Jake 7/10/8
G 10/9/4
Farabee 12/7/2
Couts 8/7/5
JVR 6/6/11
TK 5/6/8

PP
Hayes 3/2/2
Jake 0/3/4
G 1/3/4
Couts 3/3/2
TK 3/3/2

 

[Starat327]

Only on this board could someone argue that a player who has been bottom 5 of his position for the past 3 years be having an athletic epiphany at age 26 because of an 8 game sample size.

 

[deadhead]

Only on this board could someone argue that a player who has been bottom 5 of his position for the past 3 years be having an athletic epiphany at age 26 because of an 8 game sample size.

Actually 12 games now, and some eye popping numbers:
CF 59.39%, CFrel +6.56, xGF 56.32%, xGFrel +6.56

 

[Striiker]

Only on this board could someone argue that a player who has been bottom 5 of his position for the past 3 years be having an athletic epiphany at age 26 because of an 8 game sample size.

Not even 8 games. It’s like 4 games of good stats where he got carried.

But that’s the point. Lie and hope nobody checks.

 

[Starat327]

Actually 12 games now, and some eye popping numbers:
CF 59.39%, CFrel +6.56, xGF 56.32%, xGFrel +6.56

My bad. Those extra 4 games definitely cross that threshold that would statistically carry more weight than the previous 212.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Actually 12 games now, and some eye popping numbers:
CF 59.39%, CFrel +6.56, xGF 56.32%, xGFrel +6.56

And yet almost no on-ice processes from Hagg himself to explain it, short of last game where he actually made some NHL level plays for once.

We have seen this song and dance before and we know how it ends.

 

[CutOnDime97]

Our coaching staff damaged me so much that I first read this as Hagg going to RW

Well he's certainly not a useful player on D so going to forward might be his only chance at it

 

[Hanover Fist]

Actually they don't.
Hayes has much better metrics.

ES: G/1st A/2nd As
Hayes 8/8/2
Jake 7/10/8
G 10/9/4
Farabee 12/7/2
Couts 8/7/5
JVR 6/6/11
TK 5/6/8

PP
Hayes 3/2/2
Jake 0/3/4
G 1/3/4
Couts 3/3/2
TK 3/3/2

Are we only looking at one year?
Hayes has a career high of 49 pts
Jake has one year below that at 46 (Flyers)
Yes Kevin Hayes is better

 

[Striiker]

Are we only looking at one year?
Hayes has a career high of 49 pts
Jake has one year below that at 46 (Flyers)
Yes Kevin Hayes is better

And this year Jake is leading the team in scoring and pacing for 73 points in 82 games.

Hayes is pacing for 52, while playing like a selfish braindead asshole whose only positive contribution is his scoring.

 

[Tripod]

March 15th JVR was tied for 13th in league scoring

Now he is 51st

Obviously he was playing above his head, but only 2 points since March 23rd is absurd when he is playing with Couts. Also has not gotten a PP point since Feb 24th. Just not enough production given who he plays with.

 

[Starat327]

March 15th JVR was tied for 13th in league scoring

Now he is 51st

Obviously he was playing above his head, but only 2 points since March 23rd is absurd when he is playing with Couts. Also has not gotten a PP point since Feb 24th. Just not enough production given who he plays with.

Remember when we should've protected JVR over Voracek?

I memba.