Post-Game Talk: #38 | FLYERS 5 at Lightning 3 | Fri., Dec. 29, 2017, 7:30 pm ET

[whitstifier]

A top 3 Selke finish would be great. I’m not hung up on him actually winning it.

Me neither, but he'd be a deserving finalist.

I'm all for ranking Coots #1 but I think you're underrating Kopitar and undervaluing his PKing.

Maybe... Bergeron and Couturier are exceptional PKers, too. So, I doubt Kopitar is that much better at the PK to overcome his deficiencies in possession play or point production relative to the other two.

Anyway, I'm sure there are other names in the mix, no? I've heard Barkov as well. Others?

 

[TCTC]

Anyway, I'm sure there are other names in the mix, no? I've heard Barkov as well. Others?

Mark Stone probably would be a candidate if the Senators weren't such a dumpster fire. Best two way winger in the league.

 

[Magua]

It’s not even a question Couturier is the front runner in a just universe based on more than faceoffs and reputation.

Kopitar is actually having a crap defensive season by the metrics, at the sake of an offensive boost, which is hilarious that he’s the front runner for a defensive forward award. It’s as much about his team playing well too. Bergeron isn’t scoring as well as Couturier, and his underlying expected numbers are significantly worse, despite a good Corsi.

A nomination would be great, but he deserves to win this BS award halfway through the season now.

 

[TCTC]

When you're the most well-rounded player in the game, you don't need to pace for 80 points every year.
Bergeron deserves every Selke he got and will get.

 

[JXC]

Happy New year buddy.

‘Preciate it Hatch same to you man

 

[deadhead]

Doesn't matter if Couts wins the Selke, the fact that we're talking about him, at age 25, as on the same level with Kopitar and Bergeron says it all - he's a cornerstone for a future Cup contender.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

i guess, only yours and mine glasses are half full.

no, mine is as well. i already expressed my dislike for rooting for losses.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Wouldn't mind Bergeron winning. Kopitar doesn't deserve any more recognition.

would rather Kopitar won since I am surrounded by Bruins fans up here. Boston fans have enough nice things.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Sorry about my comment from last night, but I really do feel that we're going to be spinning our wheels with awful players and make the young players suffer for it in the long run. Hexy practices patience, and I'm okay with that, but to put that on top of a coach who refuses/sits/benches young players so the worse older players can play game in and game out is f***ing frustrating as hell. I feel like it's going to be a never ending cycle of awful and I feel like it's going to be one of those things where we will always be mediocre with who is behind the bench. Do you think young players would want to play for the Flyers knowing Hak is here, benching young players for worse players? No, I don't think they'll take that kindly...

 

[flyersfromquebec]

I just dont get it, we have to be patient.Toronto was, LA was, Tampa bay was, Pittsburgh was, Chicago was, I mean just dont do it like the oilers and we should be ok lol. But seriously even here in montreal the analyst of last night game said the Flyers are in no rush to win now,they are developing players and are even not that bad for a defence with so little experience. They also agree with the use of Patrick saying they dont wanna rush him. Personally I think that with the prospect pool we have, we need patient and Hextall is the right man for that, even if I know as fans we all want to see the rookie play in the big league. For now, every win is good for the young guys and fun to watch for the fans. This offseason will be a big one, hoppefuly unloading the dead weight and giving more chance to 2nd and 3rd year players and making place to new rookie.

For the coaching, IMO, even if they are not good, it make no sense to change now when we are no contender. With that much young players in the team you also need stability. And if they stay, hextall must have good reason, this guy is not stupid. I read alot of bad comment about hakstol and even if I also find him annoying, all the comments are base on winning now....I think him and hextall are more focus on a process of winning in the future, making developing > winning. So if you dont wanna rush lets say Sanheim, then who do you wanna put at his spot ??? Your left with what you have...mandog...Macdonald... The exception of that was Provorov who was already set to be a top pair in is 1st year and they did put him there.

Like someone else said, I see the glass half full !!!!

 

[flyersfromquebec]

Sorry about my comment from last night, but I really do feel that we're going to be spinning our wheels with awful players and make the young players suffer for it in the long run. Hexy practices patience, and I'm okay with that, but to put that on top of a coach who refuses/sits/benches young players so the worse older players can play game in and game out is ****ing frustrating as hell. I feel like it's going to be a never ending cycle of awful and I feel like it's going to be one of those things where we will always be mediocre with who is behind the bench. Do you think young players would want to play for the Flyers knowing Hak is here, benching young players for worse players? No, I don't think they'll take that kindly..

Maybe now....but if they become contender and top 5 team in a couple years and even win it all...fans and young players would praise them....would it be funny to read all the comments flyers fan had about 2016-17 and 2017-18 lol

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Maybe now....but if they become contender and top 5 team in a couple years and even win it all...fans and young players would praise them....would it be funny to read all the comments flyers fan had about 2016-17 and 2017-18 lol

I want the Flyers to be a contender, but I seriously cannot see that happening with Hak and Lappy behind the bench. The PK is awful and the system and player choices that Hak makes game in and game out is terrible. Plus, his line management has to be some of the worst I've seen. They can be down by 3 and still put out players that will never get you points and sit the players that can help your offense. Not only that, he jumbles the lines whenever something goes wrong and never sticks to his own planned lines. Hak will never give us what we want. I hate to say this, but even Berube would be more qualified right now.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Who cares about trophys? Also bear in mind that kopitar has played all his career with shitty players on his wings. He even had cammalerri this year. After watching him carry Europe into finals in world cup where he played 24 minutes against constant onslaught of the best Canada had to offer and just bullying them that's when I realized how amazing he really is. It's pretty funny how him and doughty are on the polar opposite of the hype spectrum even though they play on the same team. Just like hossa toews and I'm sure countless others.

 

[tucson83]

I just dont get it, we have to be patient.Toronto was, LA was, Tampa bay was, Pittsburgh was, Chicago was, I mean just dont do it like the oilers and we should be ok lol. But seriously even here in montreal the analyst of last night game said the Flyers are in no rush to win now,they are developing players and are even not that bad for a defence with so little experience. They also agree with the use of Patrick saying they dont wanna rush him. Personally I think that with the prospect pool we have, we need patient and Hextall is the right man for that, even if I know as fans we all want to see the rookie play in the big league. For now, every win is good for the young guys and fun to watch for the fans. This offseason will be a big one, hoppefuly unloading the dead weight and giving more chance to 2nd and 3rd year players and making place to new rookie.

For the coaching, IMO, even if they are not good, it make no sense to change now when we are no contender. With that much young players in the team you also need stability. And if they stay, hextall must have good reason, this guy is not stupid. I read alot of bad comment about hakstol and even if I also find him annoying, all the comments are base on winning now....I think him and hextall are more focus on a process of winning in the future, making developing > winning. So if you dont wanna rush lets say Sanheim, then who do you wanna put at his spot ??? Your left with what you have...mandog...Macdonald... The exception of that was Provorov who was already set to be a top pair in is 1st year and they did put him there.

Like someone else said, I see the glass half full !!!!

im not going to be patient if hextall is not going to play the young players and keep playing the vets, there's no excuse for it, he's doing it when he feels like it. i can be patient for one season of losing to play all young players and go all in the next year but what im no going to patient for is to watch the vets lose us games because there's no progress only more losing every year. there's nothing to build, there's no chemistry. if hextall doesnt play the young players and not fire the coach, he's not smart, he's delusional. im not saying tank like oilers, im saying tank one season to play all young players and add players from free agency that needs holes the next year, get a new coaching staff, and this team wont be losing as much. oilers just tanked every year and never added players.

 

[Appleyard]

Mike Richards already got robbed of one Selke.

Couturier will be the next Flyer to have that fate occur.

 

[JXC]

The thing about this board is the degree to which Fanboyism pervades evaluation of the coach. Wins and losses don’t matter. In fact wins are bad because they extend the coach’s time here. And why? Because Sanheim and Konecny and Patrick aren’t getting enough ice time. Pretty sure twice in the last two weeks the Flyers have thrown a blanket over their opponent in the third period, holding on to achieve victory, and the Post Game Thread has been about how Flip and MacDonald got more ice than TK and Sanheim. That’s not reasonable analysis, it’s pure Fanboyism, the kind of thing you hear from parents at a middle school soccer game or at a weekend AAU tournament.

 

[Striiker]

I know you don't pay attention so this is a crazy concept to you, but some people can look at the big picture instead of being blinded by the present.

You know why you can't eat ice cream for every meal? Because even if you enjoy it at the time, later on you'll pay for it by receiving a bigger negative than that short-term immediate positive.

 

[freakydallas13]

Maybe now....but if they become contender and top 5 team in a couple years and even win it all...fans and young players would praise them....would it be funny to read all the comments flyers fan had about 2016-17 and 2017-18 lol

Anything they accomplish in the future on the backs of the young players will be in spite of how this team has handled them, not because of it.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I think anyone that doesn’t want Filppula to play at the end of games, directly or indirectly, they want the Flyers to win. That guy is f***ing brutal.

 

[deadhead]

Filppula is good defensively, watch him in the D-zone and he's constantly in the right place to break up plays.
Now his offense is pretty shaky these days, and he should probably be playing LW, his puck skills have definitely eroded.
But there really is something to veteran presence on defense.

 

[FLYguy3911]

If he’s so good defensively why do you want to move him to LW? A -5.4 CF% rel says otherwise.

 

[deadhead]

CF is an overrated stat, period.

You can play good positional hockey, give up weak shots and have a worse Corsi than a gambler who stops some plays but gives up a lot of dangerous shots. And Filppula is hurt on Corsi by his less than stellar puck handling in the O-zone.

I notice the same people who like to use advanced stats go silent when Mannning's consistent top 100 rating in various stats is presented, since he "sucks" the advanced stats must be wrong, he can't be a top 100 defenseman.

 

[FLYguy3911]

CF is an overrated stat, period.

Do a little research Stat Man. I can think of a couple stats you fling around that are more overrated.

You can play good positional hockey, give up weak shots and have a worse Corsi than a gambler who stops some plays but gives up a lot of dangerous shots. And Filppula is hurt on Corsi by his less than stellar puck handling in the O-zone.

Strip away the offensive contributions and he's in the MacDonald/Hagg area of suppressing shots.

Or xGF% rel -4.19. Again in MacDonald/Hagg territory.

Take the xGF away and his xGA/60 rel ranks 10 out of 13. Yes it's worse than Jori Lehtera.

And if you're admitting he's a liability with the puck, as a CENTER, you are more or less admitting he shouldn't be on the ice. The game revolves around the puck. You need to be able to make plays with it in order to be an effective player. But we know your shtick by now. You'll defend Hakstol's guys until the end.

I notice the same people who like to use advanced stats go silent when Mannning's consistent top 100 rating in various stats is presented, since he "sucks" the advanced stats must be wrong, he can't be a top 100 defenseman.

Those same stats that say Travis Sanheim is a top 10 defenseman? Yeah I don't think that is the hill you want to die on.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Filppula, like others, isn’t particularly good because he isn’t particularly effective. Not because Jupiter has lined up with the blue line and I want to buy Konecny an ice cream cone.

But I’m trying to be more positive, so it seems like a good opportunity to again say that those people (Stizzle, FLYguy, etc) swearing Sanheim was the #1 prospect in the system for 3 years now were correct and knew better than I did.

Being wrong on that one has taught me quite a bit about how to project. I was brand new to watching Juniors at that point.

And I still think Manning is better than multiple other Defensemen on this team, so I hope you don’t mean me, Mr. Head. More frustrating too. But better in overall impact as long as he’s not paired with Gostisbehere and firing every puck he sees. See? Positive.

 

[deadhead]

Filppula is playing center because we don't have alternatives, I'm not moving Giroux from LW where his career as an elite player has been revived and have him revert to the center of 2014-16, a good but not great player. I don't think he's great, but I've seen him make a lot of smart, subtle plays to break up scoring chances. Filppula is a one year stopgap, no more, no less.

Sanheim is going to be an elite defenseman someday, but that day hasn't arrived yet. When it does, it'll be obvious. Right now he's getting by on talent but half the time looks lost out there. When it starts to click for him, watch out.

Manning isn't a top 4 defenseman, but he's improved substantially the last two years and is a solid 3rd pair guy who has some offensive skills and is willing to pay the price. Guys like Hagg and Manning and MacDonald will look better as 3rd pair D-men playing 15-17 minutes when a Sanheim - Gudas pair is a reliable 2nd pairing. We've seen lot worse play for the Flyers the last ten years or so.

When a top young prospect is ready, you won't have to make excuses for them, guys like Giroux made it obvious. Or Couts the previous two seasons when he was our best two way player no matter who lined up next to him.