Post-Game Talk: #37 | Wednesday, Dec. 28 | Flyers 3 at Blues 6

[Maurice of Orange]

If Raffl, Read and Streit are still out next game then Hakstol should try shaking up the line up a little.
I liked what I saw from Konecny and Cousins tonite they played with a lot of energy although Cousins made 1 mistake, but that line with Coots centering it could bring some energy back into the top 6 without Raffl for the time being.
Then have a power forward line with Leier ect... ect...and finally the Hak line 2.0 with Gordon centering the 4th line...
The defense, Gudas needs to be paired back with Provorov, that is a must for this team and Ghost needs more minutes on the 2nd pairing, the rest of the defense is what it is, at this point I'd rather have Schultz in the line up over MacDonald, until Streit returns from injury...
After MacDonald gets 7 games for ED eligibility purposes, I'd send him to AHL for the remainder of the season.

Line 1 LW Voracek C Giroux RW Simmonds
Line 2 LW Cousins C Couturier RW Konecny
Line 3 LW Leier C Schenn RW Lyubimov
Line 4 LW VandeVelde C Gordon RW Bellemare

1st D-Pair LD Provorov RD Gudas
2nd D-Pair LD Manning RD Gostisbehere
3rd D-Pair LD Schultz RD Del Zotto

Scratched List:
RW Weise
LD MacDonald
LW Raffl + injured
RW Read + Injured
RD Streit + injured

 

[Curufinwe]

MDZ never plays the right side.

 

[Magua]

https://www.nhl.com/flyers/video/flyers-holiday-card-the-outtakes/t-277517954/c-47633003

https://www.nhl.com/flyers/video/flyers-pick-gifts-for-teammates/t-277517954/c-47632703

These are good mood picker uppers

(Raffl's short but brief appearance in the bloopers is my favorite. The laughing noise he makes is just indescribable)


EDIT: Take it back. Jake's answer in this video is easily the best.

https://www.nhl.com/flyers/video/flyers-name-santas-reindeer/t-277517954/c-47632503

 

[Maurice of Orange]

MDZ never plays the right side.

I know I just couldn't find anything better until Streit returns, unless A Mac stays in the line up.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

This is what the Flyers are facing on Friday (30th) when they meet the defending Western Conference Champs San Jose Sharks at the Shark-tank.

Line 1 LW Marleau C Thornton RW Pavelski
Line 2 LW Labanc C Couture RW Boedker
Line 3 LW Meier C Tierney RW Donskoi
Line 4 LW Karlsson C Haley RW Ward

1st D-Pair LD Martin RD Burns
2nd D-Pair LD Vlasic RD Braun
3rd D-Pair LD Dillon RD DeMelo

Goalie's:
Starter: Jones
Backup: Dell

Scratched List
LD Schlemko
C Wingels
LW Nieto
C Hertl + Knee (LTIR)

Captain: Joe Pavelski
Alternate Captain: Joe Thornton
Alternate Captain: Logan Couture

Note: Sharks line up is subject to change.

 

[BillDineen]

Stupid Gamecenter messed up viewing the second half of the game. From what I saw, Leier did well and Couturier looked stuck in molasses.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

We waited something like 9 days for that.

FML

You could train a slobbering monkey to read passages from "The Encyclopedia of US College Hockey" into a microphone and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between him and Pierre ****ing McGuire, except that maybe the monkey would slobber less. Unbearable.


EDIT: 6 days. What the **** ever.

 

[TheKingPin]

1st line was fine.

Konecny and Simmonds were good.

Ghost was good.

MacDonald was so bad it makes me hate life.

D was terrible as a whole.

PK was terrible.

Bottom 6 was terrible.

Hakstol was terrible.

Thanks. Kind of what I got out of it. IMO this team won't be good enough until the D is turned over. Then we will need to fill the holes and strenthen certain spots.

 

[PALE PWNR]

Schenn needs to go as C. Cousins is a better option at this point

You know Schenn had a goal and an assist, and had a goal waived off that should have counted right? And his 5v5 CF% was basically the same as Ghost's and higher than Jake and Provorov.

 

[PK16]

You know Schenn had a goal and an assist, and had a goal waived off that should have counted right? And his 5v5 CF% was basically the same as Ghost's and higher than Jake and Provorov.

I agree. That was what I saw. He was effective offensively.

 

[Curufinwe]

I think Schenn as center of a secondary scoring line that gets fairly easy minutes makes sense with this current roster. If he goes back to wing it means Bellemare will be the 3C, not Cousins.

Stupid Gamecenter messed up viewing the second half of the game. From what I saw, Leier did well and Couturier looked stuck in molasses.

I thought his skating looked fine, especially on the Flyers 2nd goal. But he was rusty with the puck a lot of the time, and probably the person most at fault for the Blues 2nd goal where he seemed to skate out of the way of Pietrangelo in a mix-up with Simmonds who had just come off the bench.

 

[Striiker]

Yeah, Couturiers skating wasn't any different.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

You know Schenn had a goal and an assist, and had a goal waived off that should have counted right? And his 5v5 CF% was basically the same as Ghost's and higher than Jake and Provorov.

I'm aware, but I'm really not interested in cherry picking stats from one game. He can put the puck in the net and I like him on the wing. But he's too much of a liability defensively to be truly effective at C, and I do not like the fit with any of our wingers with him at C either.

 

[wuf]

We can't take dumb penalties against a team like that. The third goal they scored looked like a fluke, the rest I don't think Mason can help.

 

[PALE PWNR]

I'm aware, but I'm really not interested in cherry picking stats from one game. He can put the puck in the net and I like him on the wing. But he's too much of a liability defensively to be truly effective at C, and I do not like the fit with any of our wingers with him at C either.

Seeing as you are discussing him in the postgame thread for a specific single game, I thought it was appropriate to discuss how he did in that game. Because *****ing about him in a game where he did well doesn't make much sense. Hes filled in at C very well since Couturier has gone down. His production hasn't suffered, and he has been a -1 over that time. He's never going to be a defense first C but no one here is expecting that. He's effective centering a scoring line, he's created chances and has been dangerous and noticeable in most games during their run. With Couturier back there will be less defensive responsibility on him and his line and they should get easier competition then what they were getting.

What is wrong with the "fit" of our wingers? Aside from the fact that both Read and Raffl are both hurt atm? Schenn has been bounced around to every position and line on our roster since he got here, and is finally on a line that is producing effectively and theres still a bunch of *****ing about his play. The reality of the situation is there are only 40 or so players in the NHL that outproduced him last year and he is on pace to put up around the same amount of points this year. He is consistently 3rd or 4th on the team in ES Scoring despite never playing with regular linemates and never being able to play a single position for any kind of extended period of time.

So tired of the Schenn *****ing. It's unbelievable. The guy does everything and more of what hes asked to do and there is just incessant whining about his play non-****ing stop.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Voracek & Giroux need to be split. The team is too top heavy again, bottom 6 creates no offense right now.

 

[Les Averman]

Voracek & Giroux need to be split. The team is too top heavy again, bottom 6 creates no offense right now.

I agree. I really liked the Konecny--Couturier--Voracek line.

 

[deadhead]

With Read and Raffl out, and Streit out, and Couts working his way back into game shape, you just saw why Hextall is being patient, this team is just not talented enough top to bottom to be a cup contender. They should end up with 95-100 points (90 is a .500 team so they're a little above average).

Sure guys are out of position, that's what injuries and limited depth does to you. But you don't panic (unless you're a team with an owner worried that missing the playoffs might cost him a few million) and make a short-term deal. Just ride with it for now. Hextall is not going to rush into a trade, and he's not going to rush guys in the AHL, I think he'd like Morin and Sanheim to play together through the playoffs if possible, and bring them to camp as a pair next season and start next year with them as the 3rd pair on defense (with Provorov, Gudas, Ghost and ???). He doesn't want to rush them, as Morin is still developing and Sanheim is learning to play RHD and to play defense.

Giroux's lack of size shows up in the D-zone where he takes stupid penalties (hooking, slashing, and last night holding) because he can't physically take on bigger players - in the past refs would overlook those tactics, but games are being called tighter these days, he has to be more disciplined.

Ghost giveth and Ghost taketh away, some great rushes and another bonehead giveaway in the D-zone. Eliminate half of those bad D plays and I can live with his offensive production regressing below the mean. I think his problem is he still has the college mindset that he can beat anyone and hasn't yet accepted NHL players are quicker and faster, and sometimes you have to be boring.

MacDonald sucks, but Mason made a bad play and Simmonds was late to the shooter, it's a team effort, when the team plays well they cover for the weaker links, when they don't, the worst players are exposed.

I think Hakstol focuses as much on teaching (i.e., make a mistake you sit if you're a young player) as winning in some circumstances, he's spent his life with young players who he developed each season for a college playoff run, and I think his approach with young players is similar at the NHL level. You keep them on a tight leash in December and hopefully by March you can let them run. With older players, well, they are what they are, hard to teach old dogs new tricks, better just to suggest to Hextall after the season that a new address is in order.

 

[deadhead]

I'm aware, but I'm really not interested in cherry picking stats from one game. He can put the puck in the net and I like him on the wing. But he's too much of a liability defensively to be truly effective at C, and I do not like the fit with any of our wingers with him at C either.

Well, is it the player or the team?

If you look at Schenn's limitations at center it's the player, but if you look at his production in the right situations on the wing it's the team, as a high scoring wing who can fill in at center when needed is a valuable player.

They need a 3rd center, Cousins is a depth player who shouldn't be starting on a good team, he's just not a good fit unless he has the perfect wingers, he's not a checking line or top 6 guy. Vorobyov is a possibility, but this is probably an offseason project.

Give Schenn a real center and Lindblom on the LW and I think he'd thrive on a 3rd line/PP role. You don't need a star, just a guy who can skate, pass and play defense, Lindblom and Schenn can do the scoring.

 

[Rebels57]

With Read and Raffl out, and Streit out, and Couts working his way back into game shape, you just saw why Hextall is being patient, this team is just not talented enough top to bottom to be a cup contender. They should end up with 95-100 points (90 is a .500 team so they're a little above average).

Sure guys are out of position, that's what injuries and limited depth does to you. But you don't panic (unless you're a team with an owner worried that missing the playoffs might cost him a few million) and make a short-term deal. Just ride with it for now. Hextall is not going to rush into a trade, and he's not going to rush guys in the AHL, I think he'd like Morin and Sanheim to play together through the playoffs if possible, and bring them to camp as a pair next season and start next year with them as the 3rd pair on defense (with Provorov, Gudas, Ghost and ???). He doesn't want to rush them, as Morin is still developing and Sanheim is learning to play RHD and to play defense.

Giroux's lack of size shows up in the D-zone where he takes stupid penalties (hooking, slashing, and last night holding) because he can't physically take on bigger players - in the past refs would overlook those tactics, but games are being called tighter these days, he has to be more disciplined.

Ghost giveth and Ghost taketh away, some great rushes and another bonehead giveaway in the D-zone. Eliminate half of those bad D plays and I can live with his offensive production regressing below the mean. I think his problem is he still has the college mindset that he can beat anyone and hasn't yet accepted NHL players are quicker and faster, and sometimes you have to be boring.

MacDonald sucks, but Mason made a bad play and Simmonds was late to the shooter, it's a team effort, when the team plays well they cover for the weaker links, when they don't, the worst players are exposed.

I think Hakstol focuses as much on teaching (i.e., make a mistake you sit if you're a young player) as winning in some circumstances, he's spent his life with young players who he developed each season for a college playoff run, and I think his approach with young players is similar at the NHL level. You keep them on a tight leash in December and hopefully by March you can let them run. With older players, well, they are what they are, hard to teach old dogs new tricks, better just to suggest to Hextall after the season that a new address is in order.

I feel like you are grossly underselling the fact he basically single-handedly manufactured the Schenn goal with a spectacular rush that he started right in front of Mason.

 

[Hiesenberg]

If you have to play Schenn at C, give him Read/Weise as wingers, both have been good getting the puck in the zone and driving play. Schenn can't drive play, he just can't, it's never going to happen. He can score, he can dish, but he can't move the puck forward, he sucks at it.

Give him two wingers that can and maybe you can salvage him a bit. If you want to go with:

Raff/Giroux/Voracek
Konecny/Couturier/Simmonds
Read/Schenn/Weise
Lyubimov/PEB/VDV

you can try this out.

 

[Striiker]

I feel like you are grossly underselling the fact he basically single-handedly manufactured the Schenn goal with a spectacular rush that he started right in front of Mason.

His need to complain about Ghost overrides all else.

 

[FrozenSherbet]

If you have to play Schenn at C, give him Read/Weise as wingers, both have been good getting the puck in the zone and driving play. Schenn can't drive play, he just can't, it's never going to happen. He can score, he can dish, but he can't move the puck forward, he sucks at it.

Give him two wingers that can and maybe you can salvage him a bit. If you want to go with:

Raff/Giroux/Voracek
Konecny/Couturier/Simmonds
Read/Schenn/Weise
Lyubimov/PEB/VDV

you can try this out.

In that setup, Read could cover for some of Schenn's deficiencies in the defensive zone. I'd also like to see them try a fourth line of Lyubimov, Cousins, and Bellemare, but a scratched VandeVelde seems incredibly unlikely.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Right that 3rd line is reverse, instead of the C getting in the zone and setting up plays, the wingers would, but the C would be one of the better scorers on the team.

I think that line could do something, but for one, Read needs to get healthy before Hakstol can even contemplate it.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Voracek & Giroux need to be split. The team is too top heavy again, bottom 6 creates no offense right now.

i said that at the start of the season..

for what Vora's being paid he NEEDS to be able to anchor a line now...

hes to expensive to be on Roo's line now...