36 Jared McIsaac

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Okay but we are looking for a RD to fill those. Because one of them becomes a #5. McIsaac to me is just an LD when I have seen him and I would prefer to keep Cholowski on his strong side as well.

Again I know handedness isn't everything, but it is something and I would like the Wings to start paying a little more attention to that.

I think for a top end player, we just need someone elite. We can’t really be choosey right now.

We can play Cholowski with that player on the left side if they are a rightie, and we can play Hronek on his right side if he’s a leftie.

We can fill out the bottom 4 with McIsaac, one of Hronek/Cholowski, Lindstrom, and I think that’s a start. Lindstrom is a right handed defenseman as well who can play on that bottom pair.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Directly from THN draft preview: "What puts Addison a notch below his peers is his play in his own end. Is he good enough offensively that you're going to put up with his defense? He hasn't proven yet 100 percent that he's that guy."

Time will tell of course but right now Detroit looked smart to pass on him. Almost everyone we have is **** in their own zone. We didn't need another one.

Like I said, I was looking for more pure upside with the pick. Addison's puck skills, vision and offensive intelligence give him more upside, notwithstanding his size and defensive issues. I like my chances of improving Addison's defensive game a lot better than improving McIssac's offensive skill. Furthermore, McIssac's superior defensive skill isn't going to help us much if he turns over the puck in dangerous areas with some frequency. To be successful defensively, you not only need to make the stop, you also need to actually move the puck out of the defensive zone. The former isn't of much value without the later.

This draft has taught us a lot about what people really want on draft day. You hear a lot of talk throughout the year about swinging for the fences, skill over size, targeting upside, yadda. When push came to shove, people really wanted safe players with size (see Veleno and McIssac).

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think for a top end player, we just need someone elite. We can’t really be choosey right now.

We can play Cholowski with that player on the left side if they are a rightie, and we can play Hronek on his right side if he’s a leftie.

We can fill out the bottom 4 with McIsaac, one of Hronek/Cholowski, Lindstrom, and I think that’s a start. Lindstrom is a right handed defenseman as well who can play on that bottom pair.

Sorry I just edited that in after re-reading the post and forgetting some of my thoughts. I understand the point and agree we just need that front-line guy. I am a little different in that I had guys above Zadina when we were drafting and think we could have gotten that player now. But I trust the process, we will need to find this particular player to be very successful again. But I like a lot of the pieces we are assembling.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Like I said, I was looking for more pure upside with the pick. Addison's puck skills, vision and offensive intelligence give him more upside, notwithstanding his size and defensive issues. I like my chances of improving Addison's defensive game a lot better than improving McIssac's offensive skill. Furthermore, McIssac's superior defensive skill isn't going to help us much if he turns over the puck in dangerous areas with some frequency. To be successful defensively, you not only need to make the stop, you also need to actually move the puck out of the defensive zone. The former isn't of much value without the later.

This draft has taught us a lot about what people really want on draft day. You hear a lot of talk throughout the year about swinging for the fences, skill over size, targeting upside, yadda. When push came to shove, people really wanted safe players with size (see Veleno and McIssac).

Both those guys are plus skaters though with more upside than you're describing.

Reminds me of some of the hot takes on our current best player and future captain. Now these guys went lower, but safe guys with lots of speed can also be developed to do more.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Sorry I just edited that in after re-reading the post and forgetting some of my thoughts. I understand the point and agree we just need that front-line guy. I am a little different in that I had guys above Zadina when we were drafting and think we could have gotten that player now. But I trust the process, we will need to find this particular player to be very successful again. But I like a lot of the pieces we are assembling.

You and I were very aligned on Hughes, and I had him ahead of Zadina as well, but if we were going to take anyone over Hughes, I’m glad it was Zadina. I think they 3 and 4 in this draft with regard to game breaking ability. If we chose Bouchard over Hughes, I would have accepted it, because I recognize what Bouchard can do, but I might have been a little more frazzled by it.

 

[Frk It]

Like I said, I was looking for more pure upside with the pick. Addison's puck skills, vision and offensive intelligence give him more upside, notwithstanding his size and defensive issues. I like my chances of improving Addison's defensive game a lot better than improving McIssac's offensive skill. Furthermore, McIssac's superior defensive skill isn't going to help us much if he turns over the puck in dangerous areas with some frequency. To be successful defensively, you not only need to make the stop, you also need to actually move the puck out of the defensive zone. The former isn't of much value without the later.

This draft has taught us a lot about what people really want on draft day. You hear a lot of talk throughout the year about swinging for the fences, skill over size, targeting upside, yadda. When push came to shove, people really wanted safe players with size (see Veleno and McIssac).

We went for pure skill with Zadina and Berggren.

Veleno and McIsaac don’t cancel out those picks. McIsaac can be an ideal partner for someone like Hronek. Veleno along with Larkin gives us someone great at zone entries and should help get back to puck possession.

I don’t really see what about their skill sets makes them so troubling given they were picked at #30 and #36.

I’m a big fan of Addison, but kids already being sheltered in Juniors, and he had a seriously lopsided amount of his pts come from the PP.

 

[DRW204]

How does he compare to Johnny Tychonick?

 

[Frk It]

How does he compare to Johnny Tychonick?

Very different players. I can say McIsaac played a much bigger role and looked better at the U18's for Canada (after a tough first game). He was named one of Canada's 3 best players for that tournament. He also was very good for Canada at the Hlinka last Summer. Craig Button said one of his favorite things about McIsaac is his game elevates when the stakes go up.

McIsaac is more physical and well-rounded, Tychonick has more puck skills and is more offensive.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Both those guys are plus skaters though with more upside than you're describing.

Reminds me of some of the hot takes on our current best player and future captain. Now these guys went lower, but safe guys with lots of speed can also be developed to do more.

One man's hot take is another man's honest evaluation of the potential of prospects. If you don't think that hockey IQ is a limiting factor on the ceiling of players our conversation won't last long. I have watched enough of both over the course of the season to know that the game doesn't come super easy to either. With respect to Veleno, the Larkin comparisons are completely bonk and need to stop outside of puck transporter attributes. One is a very smart player who knows where the puck is going while the other is a half-step behind what is going on. With respect to McIssac, people need to stop acting like they can just pin him to a more offensively gifted partner and expect him to be effective. Smart players thrive with other smart players. A less aggressive defensive partner still needs to be able to make plays on time with the puck if he is going to play up the lineup.

While maybe not unreasonable picks considering where they were taken, posters are starting to get ahead of themselves with both prospects. The physical tools are enticing but don't tell the whole story with respect to either player.

 

[MikeyP]

I watched McIsaac all year his Q draft year and just talked to my seatmates to confirm if anything has changed.

McIsaac is as dumb as they come with decision-making on and off the puck and makes tons of costly mistakes in his own end in particular. The scouts obviously see something most of the rest of us Moose fans dont.

Good luck, hopefully Detroit can fix him.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

With respect to Veleno, the Larkin comparisons are completely bonk and need to stop outside of puck transporter attributes. One is a very smart player who knows where the puck is going while the other is a half-step behind what is going on.

Maybe you already know this, but the Larkin comparison comes from Tyler Wright. That isn't a fan thing.

 

[FunkyColdZadina]

We will have to see but McIsaac brings a bit more physicality in my opinion. He does like to throw his weight around. I don't think we will be talking about guys digging for pucks for long stretches with him on the ice, something that has been a problem for several of our guys for a while now.

Thanks, sounds pretty encouraging. We've definitely been lacking a physical presence on the back-end for a while now.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Maybe you already know this, but the Larkin comparison comes from Tyler Wright. That isn't a fan thing.

Yes, I have read Wright's quotes. I agree in a sense with respect to kind, but not with respect to quality. These comparisons have a way of taking on a life of their own around these parts.

 

[Tube Skates]

I watched McIsaac all year his Q draft year and just talked to my seatmates to confirm if anything has changed.

McIsaac is as dumb as they come with decision-making on and off the puck and makes tons of costly mistakes in his own end in particular. The scouts obviously see something most of the rest of us Moose fans dont.

Good luck, hopefully Detroit can fix him.

Gotta love those 20 oz. Keith’s at the concession stands

 

[newfy]

One man's hot take is another man's honest evaluation of the potential of prospects. If you don't think that hockey IQ is a limiting factor on the ceiling of players our conversation won't last long. I have watched enough of both over the course of the season to know that the game doesn't come super easy to either. With respect to Veleno, the Larkin comparisons are completely bonk and need to stop outside of puck transporter attributes. One is a very smart player who knows where the puck is going while the other is a half-step behind what is going on. With respect to McIssac, people need to stop acting like they can just pin him to a more offensively gifted partner and expect him to be effective. Smart players thrive with other smart players. A less aggressive defensive partner still needs to be able to make plays on time with the puck if he is going to play up the lineup.

Just gonna say.. You dont completly light it up like Veleno did to end the year if you have no hockey sense/are always a half step behind the play. Hes no blue chipper but hes a solid prospect that youre selling short a bit.

As for McIsaac, smart players thrive with smart players. He goes and plays at basically the highest level of his age group (canada u18) and is named top 3 for the team in the tourney so he obviously made som smart plays. He was a second rounder, hes going to have some warts but hes also had some high level play on his resume already. And yes, you can pin a defensive guy to an offensive partner plenty of teams do that. As long as McIsaac can make a good outlet pass and move the puck he can play up the lineup. Brad STuart was no wizard of offensive skill but would be a good target for McIsaac to shoot for

 

[Go Wings]

Like I said, I was looking for more pure upside with the pick. Addison's puck skills, vision and offensive intelligence give him more upside, notwithstanding his size and defensive issues. I like my chances of improving Addison's defensive game a lot better than improving McIssac's offensive skill. Furthermore, McIssac's superior defensive skill isn't going to help us much if he turns over the puck in dangerous areas with some frequency. To be successful defensively, you not only need to make the stop, you also need to actually move the puck out of the defensive zone. The former isn't of much value without the later.

This draft has taught us a lot about what people really want on draft day. You hear a lot of talk throughout the year about swinging for the fences, skill over size, targeting upside, yadda. When push came to shove, people really wanted safe players with size (see Veleno and McIssac).

Do you know what the draft has taught us over the last 15 years? It has taught us that the defensmen that Detroit drafts that cannot play defense never learn to. Kindl, Smith, Meech, Lebda, Fournier, Sproul, etc etc etc.

I love the old draft saying oh you can teach defense but you can't teach offense. In 95% of the guys draft you cannot teach defense they either get it or they don't.

 

[ricky0034]

Do you know what the draft has taught us over the last 15 years? It has taught us that the defensmen that Detroit drafts that cannot play defense never learn to. Kindl, Smith, Meech, Lebda, Fournier, Sproul, etc etc etc.

I love the old draft saying oh you can teach defense but you can't teach offense. In 95% of the guys draft you cannot teach defense they either get it or they don't.

guys like Ouellet/Jensen/Marchenko haven't exactly turned out much better(and those are just the more successful ones,most of the time they turn out more like Max Nicastro or Mitch Wheaton where we all just kinda quickly forget they ever existed at all)

the Wings just suck at developing Defensemen in general

 

[MikeyP]

Gotta love those 20 oz. Keith’s at the concession stands

(shrugs) You can discount two seasons worth of first-hand observation if you like. I stand by what I said. Some of it was rookie mistakes but some of it is just poor decision making. I found his discipline was also lacking, sometimes even in key moments.

 

[Frk It]

(shrugs) You can discount two seasons worth of first-hand observation if you like. I stand by what I said. Some of it was rookie mistakes but some of it is just poor decision making. I found his discipline was also lacking, sometimes even in key moments.

Appreciate the feedback. I thought he was pretty brutal for Canada in his first game at the U18's, but then I really liked his play a lot as the tournament went on.

Given that he has performed well for Canada at the Hlinka and U18's, do you think maybe he could look better if he had a better partner? Not sure who his regular partner is there in Halifax.

 

[MikeyP]

Appreciate the feedback. I thought he was pretty brutal for Canada in his first game at the U18's, but then I really liked his play a lot as the tournament went on.

Given that he has performed well for Canada at the Hlinka and U18's, do you think maybe he could look better if he had a better partner? Not sure who his regular partner is there in Halifax.

Full Disclosure: I was a season ticket holder for the Moose for a few years but I didnt renew this past season, but I had a chat with the folks who still are that I know well.

I suppose anyone might be better with a better partner but he makes sometimes mistakes on what should be very simple plays... On the Mooseheads boards he was probably the player that fans were most divided on. He's physical tho - I will give him that. Perhaps he can be righted. He certainly has the raw tools, but he makes some really dumb mistakes leading to penalties and turnovers . Part of the discontent I think is that Halifax made some huge moves to draft him and Groulx and he just hasn't lived up to expectations given how high he was drafted (2nd).

 

[Tube Skates]

(shrugs) You can discount two seasons worth of first-hand observation if you like. I stand by what I said. Some of it was rookie mistakes but some of it is just poor decision making. I found his discipline was also lacking, sometimes even in key moments.

Believe me I hear what you’re saying. I’ve caught all the games the last two years as well. Home and away. I’m not saying that he doesn’t have a lot of gaffes. I hate it when he sits behind his net for what seems like enough time to make two line changes just to cough it up but others are not where they are supposed to be to help him out. He also has tunnel vision in front of his own net. Then he’ll absolutely plaster someone along the boards. Next thing he’s going end to end with no help what so ever. Then he’ll hit someone with a long pass in full flight. He’s a 50/50 player right now and could probably fill in for Ericsson or Kronwal right now but needs 3 if not 4 more years to develop. I just don’t know but I’d rather like him than hate him seeing he plays for my home team in the Q and was just drafted by my favourite nhl franchise. I like my 20 oz. Keith’s as well.

 

[Tube Skates]

Appreciate the feedback. I thought he was pretty brutal for Canada in his first game at the U18's, but then I really liked his play a lot as the tournament went on.

Given that he has performed well for Canada at the Hlinka and U18's, do you think maybe he could look better if he had a better partner? Not sure who his regular partner is there in Halifax.

When he gets in trouble it’s more himself and forward positioning. His defence partners for the most part are more than adequate.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Just gonna say.. You dont completly light it up like Veleno did to end the year if you have no hockey sense/are always a half step behind the play. Hes no blue chipper but hes a solid prospect that youre selling short a bit.

As for McIsaac, smart players thrive with smart players. He goes and plays at basically the highest level of his age group (canada u18) and is named top 3 for the team in the tourney so he obviously made som smart plays. He was a second rounder, hes going to have some warts but hes also had some high level play on his resume already. And yes, you can pin a defensive guy to an offensive partner plenty of teams do that. As long as McIsaac can make a good outlet pass and move the puck he can play up the lineup. Brad STuart was no wizard of offensive skill but would be a good target for McIsaac to shoot for

Newfy, you and I both know that many less than smart players still manage to produce well at the junior level. Junior hockey isn't professional hockey. I find Veleno's hockey IQ pretty average on most nights. He is still a good use of a 30th pick and will be a useful NHL player that outplays his draft position, but expectations need to be reeled in a bit in my opinion. Like I said before, if people are expecting him to turn out like Larkin, they will be disappointed.

Did you watch the U18s this year? The Canadians were awful. Being the third best player on that team in that tournament is like being the third tallest midget. Again the point isn't that you can't pair a defense-first player with an offensive one. The point is that the defensive player still needs to be smart and make good decisions with the puck in a timely fashion. You didn't see Stuart coughing up the puck a ton in his prime even against stiff match-ups.

Again, McIsaac has the right to prove me wrong, but color me skeptical until he does.

 

[Frk It]

I respect your opinion @Rzombo4 prez.

It’s too bad your boy Bernard-Docker didn’t slide a bit farther, you had me pretty intrigued with that kid. I really liked Tychonick, but I guess he really rubbed some teams the wrong way with his interview.

I would have liked to trade up to the 40-50 range and nab one of those guys - Durzi, Addison, Tychonick... but oh well.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I respect your opinion @Rzombo4 prez.

It’s too bad your boy Bernard-Docker didn’t slide a bit farther, you had me pretty intrigued with that kid. I really liked Tychonick, but I guess he really rubbed some teams the wrong way with his interview.

I would have liked to trade up to the 40-50 range and nab one of those guys - Durzi, Addison, Tychonick... but oh well.

I think we did well with our draft overall, but I am concerned that we didn't walk away with at least one slightly more skilled defensemen. That is what I wanted going into the draft. I didn't need four defensemen in the first two rounds, but I did see them as the strength of this draft class. I think next year will not be nearly as strong in terms of defensemen, especially high in the first round.

FWIW I did not expect JBD to be taken that high. I guess time will tell. If we move AA for a strong defensive prospect I will probably feel better about it.