Post-Game Talk: #35 | FLYERS 2 at Sabres 4 | Fri., Dec. 22, 2017, 7:00 pm ET

[Curufinwe]

There's been too many of these lackluster efforts this season. It's really disappointing to me, and it should be even more disappointing to the GM.

0 surprise with this outcome. I'm glad I had better things to do tonight than to watch the team sleepwalk through a game against a weaker opponent.

Sleepwalk is a good way to put it.

 

[tucson83]

this is a frustrating team, just seems like they just want to play when they feel like it and that falls on the coach, there's no restrictions when it comes to the players, it's like they are allowed to do whatever they want.

 

[TheKingPin]

This was one of Patrick's best games. Konecny him and Sanheim were 3 of the best players tonight imo. Still shocked at how poor Nolan's shot has been. Those highlight reel videos from juniors showed a number of snipe level shots that we just haven't seen at all. His skating was much better today and his confidence with the puck was better (still not too confident imo but getting better)

I know the broadcasters keep talking about confidence regarding Patrick. It’s not just that. I’d say it’s mostly his core strength. Similar to G and ghost, that deficit will cause poor shooting, passing, skating, board play etc. Just like G and ghost, Patrick will heal and strengthen over the course of the year, finishing strong. He’s in for a big year tomorrow. As long as he heals and progresses this year and does not get injured this year it’s a win. Next year the pressure starts for him. His skating was a lot better last night though. He won a race! First time!

TK and sanhiem looked amazing too. Sanhiem has figured out a lot in a short amount of time. Amac is horrendous. Fire hakstol.

 

[NYCFlyer]

this is a frustrating team, just seems like they just want to play when they feel like it and that falls on the coach, there's no restrictions when it comes to the players, it's like they are allowed to do whatever they want.

Terrible game plan and effort. Plenty of blame to go around. The whole coaching staff not just Hak. Granted we sometimes overlook that we have a guy who was buried in the AHL two years ago on our top pair with a 20yo and rookie Dmen on each of the other defense pairs but Murphy has to do a better job helping them with breakouts and transition to offense. Its like playing prevent D the whole game against one of the worst scoring teams in the league.

 

[deadhead]

The players suck, the coach sucks, somehow they're still within striking distance of the playoffs.
Problem is simple - same as the last five years, lack of depth. Need to replace a half dozen players with upgrades.

They play conservative b/c it's the only way they can be competitive, but they're undersized with average speed and teams have learned how to defend them - stay in a box, keep everything outside, pound them and wait for mistakes.
Patrick and Sanheim are slowly coming around, Patrick is the key, if he turns it around in the new year, he's an anchor player.
Reading between the lines, Hextall thinks Lindblom is close.

You want every prospect to be an instant star, not only does that rarely happen, but when it does, like Ghost, you may never see that level of play again as the league adjusts - it will take a couple years to build up the skill level - hopefully we see another step taken this spring. Get Patrick up to speed, add Lindblom and a couple other players, younger, bigger, faster.

Give me 40 points (3 out of the next 3 games), and 50+ in the last 44 after Jan 1 - and I'm happy, playoffs or no playoffs.
50+ points in the second half would be a 93+ point pace, that's how I want to finish this season.

 

[FLYguy3911]

All but about 6 teams are within "striking distance" of the playoffs. It's the NHL. The Flyers have ~18% chance at the playoffs.

 

[Striiker]

But it sounds better if you frame it as if the team is horrible and Hakstol has kept them right in it!

 

[YEM]

I just lost the under on that last goal, who the heck gave up on that goal? was that Ghost? wow that hurts!!!

that is as bad a beat as you can get in the NHL
2-0 with like 5 minutes left and the over hits?
ugh

 

[Magua]

I only saw the last half of the 3rd, but there was a rush when Sanheim broke to go up ice with the forwards. He could have caught them and made it an odd man rush but you could see him thinking, oh no, I better hold back. They need to unleash him. His puck sense and speed can make him a factor joining/leading the rush.

I don’t know his entry stats which I’m sure are still fine, but I can’t even count how many times where instead of trying to make a play through the NZ when there’s some room he just goes for a hard rim around. It’s very obviously on command and to be safe. Or where he has ice and just makes a pass up ice for a forward to tip instead of skating it himself. No leading rushes dammit.

 

[Foggy14]

Well unfortunately unless something gives this is how Hextall wants his team to play (style not results of course). Low event try to win by not losing style. In league where people are trying to find different ways to create offense the Flyers are far more concerned with preventing scoring.

I only saw the last half of the 3rd, but there was a rush when Sanheim broke to go up ice with the forwards. He could have caught them and made it an odd man rush but you could see him thinking, oh no, I better hold back. They need to unleash him. His puck sense and speed can make him a factor joining/leading the rush.

Yep, that's at the heart of my frustration with this team.

At even strength last night, Buffalo had 10 high danger scoring chances and we had 4. With the guys in our lineup, you almost have to plan for that dubious result to "achieve" it.

Season long, we're 27th in the League in producing high danger, even strength scoring chances. Maybe the idea is that we'll trade a high number of chances for excellence in preventing them. Unfortunately, that's not working. We're just average (15th in the League) in 5 on 5 high danger chances against.

Our current "system" is a recipe for mediocrity.

 

[achdumeingute]

This was one of Patrick's best games. Konecny him and Sanheim were 3 of the best players tonight imo. Still shocked at how poor Nolan's shot has been. Those highlight reel videos from juniors showed a number of snipe level shots that we just haven't seen at all. His skating was much better today and his confidence with the puck was better (still not too confident imo but getting better)

Patrick's shot is there, gets it off quick. He's just going through the "getting up to speed" of the NHL level.

I'm really not worried about him long term.

 

[Stizzle]

I’ve got to hear this one explained, please

Chris Vandevelde is Dave Hakstol's all-time favorite player. Vandevelde is the most bland, do nothing, "safe reliable" player you can imagine. All traits Hakstol covets to an extreme degree. After years of stealing a paycheck here, he now plays in Finland.

 

[deadhead]

We're not getting scoring chances b/c of the lack of talent.
The first line before it was broken up got plenty of chances playing the same scheme that "hobbled" the other lines.
The D-men attack plenty but Provorov and Sanheim aren't finishing those plays, neither is Konecny.
Filppula, Simmonds, Weise, Weal, Leier, Laughton are not going to drive play, they need help around them.
Which is why they need Patrick to play like a 2C, Lindblom to come up and play like a 3LW. And still more help.

 

[achdumeingute]

I only saw the last half of the 3rd, but there was a rush when Sanheim broke to go up ice with the forwards. He could have caught them and made it an odd man rush but you could see him thinking, oh no, I better hold back. They need to unleash him. His puck sense and speed can make him a factor joining/leading the rush.

well, I can see an approach of trying to teach Sanheim to be a little more defensive first. His offensive skills and tendencies are there, I don't think that will disappear. Ultimately, its going to benefit him and the team more in the long run for him to learn more defensive play in these early years.

Imo, ghost has positionally been a lot better this year, and he hasn't regressed in his offensive skill.

This is such a going through the motions year...all that matters is prospect development.

 

[deadhead]

I don't think they're going through the motions, rather, when you're a mediocre team, any night you don't bring at least your B+ game you're in trouble.
Talented teams can win with their "C" game, and over 82 games, you'll have a dozen of these.
This Flyers team can match up with almost anyone on their good nights and lose to anyone on their bad nights - and that's pretty much the definition of "mediocre."

 

[Magua]

Something that just popped up in my brain: Raffl was put out for the EN. Scored on a tip. And then they went right back with that Provorov in the slot nonsense with the next net pulled, no Raffl. Weird to not just go back to it.

Also, who here wouldn’t mind PP2 being:

Raffl
Patrick-Konecny
Sanheim-Provorov

All that time with Lehtera on the PP and never Raffl. And a hearty f*** Flip and his minute eating ass.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Provorov is too wide to be in the slot. Ghost hit him right in the back with the back with the final shot.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Cliff notes from someone who isn't completely optimistic or completely pessimistic or trying to win worlds longest post 2017.

Please and thank you.

One of those games where you realize they're going to lose sometime in the middle of the 2nd, when they have a decent extended zone stay and shoot 4 pucks directly into opponent's shinpads.

fin

Couple Hakstol thoughts:

• Starting the 2nd unit on the powerplay they got with about ~3:30 left? Atrocious. That unit is f***ing awful, and it's not like they have a track record of at least possessing the puck and getting a shot or two. They can't set up, and they never do. That was a guaranteed way to burn 45-50 seconds that you desperately needed, and ensure that the Sabres would be able to make a change to face the 1st unit. If you were worried about Giroux/Voracek being gassed, take your timeout then! To come back from 2 down, you need to first score 1 goal. You can't waste almost a minute like that.
• And they should have explored a better combination of players for a second unit by now, or at least coached them on how to enter the zone. I feel like they just skate up and down the ice 3 times chasing the puck and then hop off.
• Isn't a road game against the league's lowest-scoring team in the front half of a back-to-back kind of the ideal time to give your backup his first NHL start? That is literally the perfect scenario.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Chris Vandevelde is Dave Hakstol's all-time favorite player. Vandevelde is the most bland, do nothing, "safe reliable" player you can imagine. All traits Hakstol covets to an extreme degree. After years of stealing a paycheck here, he now plays in Finland.

@Magua Here’s your chance to get a quality player from Finland. I know you’ve been hoping they would finally go for one again.

 

[Domino666]

I don’t know his entry stats which I’m sure are still fine, but I can’t even count how many times where instead of trying to make a play through the NZ when there’s some room he just goes for a hard rim around. It’s very obviously on command and to be safe. Or where he has ice and just makes a pass up ice for a forward to tip instead of skating it himself. No leading rushes dammit.

Because Hack is a f***ing p***y, had no confidence in his own coaching and relies on the safest way to do shit, hey you never know he may turn out like Ben Stiller’s character in Along Came Polly, but doubtful he can’t even adjust mid game to things sooooooo the future is bright

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Yep, that's at the heart of my frustration with this team.

At even strength last night, Buffalo had 10 high danger scoring chances and we had 4. With the guys in our lineup, you almost have to plan for that dubious result to "achieve" it.

Season long, we're 27th in the League in producing high danger, even strength scoring chances. Maybe the idea is that we'll trade a high number of chances for excellence in preventing them. Unfortunately, that's not working. We're just average (15th in the League) in 5 on 5 high danger chances against.

Our current "system" is a recipe for mediocrity.

in the words of Torts... "safe is death in the NHL"..

 

[Magua]

@Magua Here’s your chance to get a quality player from Finland. I know you’ve been hoping they would finally go for one again.

Another one?! Be still my heart.

Supposedly this young, Finnish hot shot, Chris VandeVelde, comes most highly recommended by our new Finnish scout, Davteri Hakstokanen:

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Another one?! Be still my heart.

Supposedly this young, Finnish hot shot, Chris VandeVelde, comes most highly recommended by our new Finnish scout, Davteri Hakstokanen:

with any luck thats were he ends up soon

 

[FLYguy3911]

He was an NHL regular 3 years running, including 81/82 games last year, and can't even sniff this garbage US Olympic team.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

He was an NHL regular 3 years running, including 81/82 games last year, and can't even sniff this garbage US Olympic team.

THEY HAD NO CHOICE!!!!!