News Article: 30 in 30: Goalies among Maple Leafs questions

[Budsfan]

30 in 30: Goalies among Maple Leafs questions

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=680513

The Toronto Maple Leafs ended their NHL-long nine-year Stanley Cup Playoff drought last season, but they bowed out of the Eastern Conference Quarterfinals in heartbreaking fashion with a meltdown in Game 7 against the Boston Bruins.

After licking their wounds, the Maple Leafs got back up and had an interesting summer filled with transactions that drew praise and scorn across the NHL, but specifically in Toronto.

They want to believe they're on the right path with the type of tough, physical, no-holds-barred team Randy Carlyle loves to coach, but several questions face this team as it heads into 2013-14.

30 IN 30: TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS

Leafs look to put painful playoff ouster behind them
Goaltending, Clarkson among Maple Leafs questions
Gardiner ready for bigger role with Maple Leafs
Bernier, Clarkson give lineup different look
Rielly leads Maple Leafs' deep prospect pool

ALL 30 IN 30 STORIES ›30 IN 30 CALENDAR ›
Here are six:

6. What is the right thing to do when it comes to Morgan Rielly? -- The right answer will depend on how Rielly performs in training camp. The only thing known for sure is the defenseman isn't old enough to start the season in the AHL with the Marlies, so it's either the NHL or back to the Western Hockey League for the 19-year-old, who was the Maple Leafs' first-round pick (No. 5) in 2012.

If Rielly impresses, the Maple Leafs likely will keep him on the NHL roster at the start of the season; they can afford to give him a nine-game tryout before the clock starts running on his entry-level contract. That should be enough time to see if he's ready for the NHL.

In addition, if Rielly is good in camp, Nonis would have to make difficult decisions on which players to keep on the blue line, and that calls into question the futures of Paul Ranger, Mark Fraser, Korbinian Holzer, T.J. Brennan and maybe John-Michael Liles.

If Rielly falters, the easy decision would be to send him back to the Moose Jaw Warriors in the WHL. It wouldn't be a terrible thing because Rielly would return as an older player on a younger team, which would give him a chance to develop leadership skills that could prove useful down the road in Toronto.

However, Maple Leafs executives aren't sure if another season in the WHL would do anything for Rielly. He was a near point-per-game player for Moose Jaw last season and they're not sure he needs more time developing at the junior level.

These questions are undoubtedly going to spur a lot of opinion, have at them.

The one I'm going to voice an opinion on, is on Rielly and although he seems to have out grown the WHL, he will have to really out play a veteran, to stick with the Leafs but training camp may be a real eye opener and force the Leafs Brass, to make a trade, to accommodate him and he just may do that.

Click to read more...

 

[Gobias Industries]

Reimer was solid, but not by any means spectacular last season, with 19 wins, a 2.46 goals-against average, a .924 save percentage and four shutouts

"But not by any means" seems a little unnecessary for a goalie that tied 7th in save %, alongside a Vezina finalist.

 

[BiggestLeafsFanEVER*]

Reimer was fine. He did not end up being the team's problem.

 

[7even]

"But not by any means" seems a little unnecessary for a goalie that tied 7th in save %, alongside a Vezina finalist.

Thought that was funny as well. I often wonder how NHL.com writers keep their jobs.

 

[Budsfan]

Here's the list of questions posed.

1. Who is the No. 1 goalie? -- The Maple Leafs actually may have two.

2. Will GM Dave Nonis work his magic to sign and keep Nazem Kadri and Cody Franson? -- It's a good thing Nonis got his five-year contract extension before having to make this happen, because it's a head-scratcher.

3. Will David Clarkson rediscover the 30-goal touch he had in New Jersey? -- Even though Nonis said Clarkson isn't expected to score 30, the GM wouldn't have signed him for seven years if he didn't think the power forward had it in him to do it.

4. Is Jake Gardiner ready for a regular role? -- If how the defenseman played in the playoffs is an indicator, the answer is a resounding yes.

5. Can Dave Bolland deliver more offense, as Nonis says he can? -- Nonis made a surprising comment shortly after trading for Bolland at the 2013 NHL Draft on June 30. He said he thought Bolland, who scored the Stanley Cup-clinching goal for the Chicago Blackhawks, could do more offensively if given a chance in a higher-profile role. He cited Bolland's numbers in the Ontario Hockey League, when he had 130 points in 65 games with the London Knights in 2005-06.

6. What is the right thing to do when it comes to Morgan Rielly? -- The right answer will depend on how Rielly performs in training camp. The only thing known for sure is the defenseman isn't old enough to start the season in the AHL with the Marlies, so it's either the NHL or back to the Western Hockey League for the 19-year-old, who was the Maple Leafs' first-round pick (No. 5) in 2012.

 

[King Mapes]

Thought that was funny as well. I often wonder how NHL.com writers keep their jobs.

It's because it's Reimer. Guy gets zero respect league wide. He got a lot of blame for game 7 but many forget the 2 games before that. Game 5 was one of the best goalie performances I've ever seen. Period.

 

[cynicism]

It's because it's Reimer. Guy gets zero respect league wide. He got a lot of blame for game 7 but many forget the 2 games before that. Game 5 was one of the best goalie performances I've ever seen. Period.

The negatives against him are slightly overblown but so is the praise. He's not even played 150 NHL games yet. He hasn't proven himself yet. Most goalies take a few years to prove and establish themselves. This is what separates real goalies from the Masons and the Raycrofts.

I'm not writing him off, I'm saying we need at least one more season from him before we know what he is.

 

[Pi]

The negatives against him are slightly overblown but so is the praise. He's not even played 150 NHL games yet. He hasn't proven himself yet. Most goalies take a few years to prove and establish themselves. This is what separates real goalies from the Masons and the Raycrofts.

I'm not writing him off, I'm saying we need at least one more season from him before we know what he is.

Schneider, Bernier, Lehner, Markstrom etc have played even less games and are treated like elite goalies around these parts (minus Bernier...now that he's Leaf property).

Reimer is a good goalie. If he can overcome his flaws...he's an elite goalie, if he doesn't, he's a top 10-top 15 goalie just following on this trend.

 

[Budsfan]

Reimer and Bernier are 2 very decent young Goal Tenders and the problem for Carlyle will be to give them equal time in the net to prove themselves.

I really liked Reimers outlook on sharing the net...

LEAFS' REIMER READY TO SUPPORT, COMPETE WITH BERNIER

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=430211

Coming off a season in which he led the Toronto Maple Leafs to their first playoff berth in eight seasons, it would have been easy for goaltender James Reimer to take the acquisition of Jonathan Bernier personally, instead Reimer says he's looking forward to the competition and intends to support the former Kings backup as much as he can.

“First and foremost we wear the same jersey, so you're a good guy, you're a good teammate and you look out for your teammates, but aside from that, both of us are going to want to be the starter and definitely I want to keep that and want to be the guy for our team and be the guy that wins us a cup,” Reimer said.

“That'll add some good competition and hopefully we can push each other and pile up a lot of wins for our team.”

 

[7even]

The negatives against him are slightly overblown but so is the praise. He's not even played 150 NHL games yet. He hasn't proven himself yet. Most goalies take a few years to prove and establish themselves. This is what separates real goalies from the Masons and the Raycrofts.

I'm not writing him off, I'm saying we need at least one more season from him before we know what he is.

That's a little unfair. Those guys were one year wonders. Reimer has already faced 3000+ at the NHL level, and has put up a .915 while doing so. That's significant. I'm confident in saying Reimer will be, at the least, an average NHL goalie. The only proving he has left is not IF he's good, but HOW good he is. That's what separates the Lehtonen's from the Hiller's from the Rask's.

And like, I'd be indifferent if I didn't see "w00t w00t Bernier is our numbah 1 Reimer needs to prove himself" plastered everywhere. I get that Bernier's had his own hype train for years, but the guy's proven even less in the NHL than Reimer has. I'm not sure what I'm missing. Maybe it's just personal preference, maybe people lost faith in Reims for not being able to hold down game 7, I dunno. Goalies are pretty polarizing, it seems.

 

[Hotlanta]

I stopped watching these when they said Ottawa is going to get the third seed. How can they claim Toronto is a bubble team (which is fair) because of our question marks but ignore the question marks in Ottawa. Can Andersson keep it up? Is Spezza 100% and can he fill Alfredsson's role? Is Bobby Ryan going to click? Is Zibanejad the real deal? Will Conacher produce in Ottawa like he did in Tampa?

I just don't get how they say the battle for the Wild Card is Toronto, Montreal & Tampa Bay and Ottawa is going to walk right into playoffs.

My Predications:

Detroit
Boston
Toronto or Ottawa
Toronto or Ottawa
Tampa Bay (Lose the Wild Card)
Montreal
Florida
Buffalo (If they trade away Miller or Vanek at the deadline)

 

[Mess]

Schneider, Bernier, Lehner, Markstrom etc have played even less games and are treated like elite goalies around these parts (minus Bernier...now that he's Leaf property).

Reimer is a good goalie. If he can overcome his flaws...he's an elite goalie, if he doesn't, he's a top 10-top 15 goalie just following on this trend.

The difference with Schneider, Bernier, Lehner, Markstrom is that they were all highly ranked heading into their draft years as potential 1st round picks all.

So on unfulfilled potential and expectations they get respect until they prove otherwise.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

I get that Bernier's had his own hype train for years, but the guy's proven even less in the NHL than Reimer has. I'm not sure what I'm missing.

I don't know if I'd say Reimer has really proven more than Bernier based on playing 50 more games. That's about all that separates them. It's a pretty small sample size either way, but they have nearly identical stats at the NHL level to this point and by virtually all accounts, Bernier is better at handling the puck and has a superior glove hand + rebound control. Who knows if he'll pan out as a more effective goalie than Reimer, but that's not something to just write off because Reimer's played 50 more career games - about 10 less than your average #1 goalie is expected to play over one season.

 

[7even]

I don't know if I'd say Reimer has really proven more than Bernier based on playing 50 more games. That's about all that separates them.

I'd say it's a little more than that. Bernier has faced less than half the shots Reimer has to date. If you're into statistics, I'd recommend this article over at AIH about how randomness correlates with shots against and where small sample sizes re: shots against become less problematic http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2010/4/20/1429278/fooled-by-randomness-goaltender.

It's a pretty small sample size either way, but they have nearly identical stats at the NHL level to this point and by virtually all accounts, Bernier is better at handling the puck and has a superior glove hand + rebound control. Who knows if he'll pan out as a more effective goalie than Reimer, but that's not something to just write off because Reimer's played 50 more career games - about 10 less than your average #1 goalie is expected to play over one season.

I like to give Reimer's stats more weight given that he's exceeded that 2,000 shot/.930ES% threshold, but that's me, and I understand people like to evaluate goalies differently. Personally, I think puck handling ability is somewhat overrated and Reimer's inability to save glove side shots is highly overstated. I actually like Reimer's style. Very technically sound, good positionally, and he supplements that with underrated agility and athleticism (dat toe save on Bergeron )

 

[ConnorTO]

bubble team?

get ready to get ur ass kicked NHL
Leafs are gunna blank your blank

 

[King Mapes]

The difference with Schneider, Bernier, Lehner, Markstrom is that they were all highly ranked heading into their draft years as potential 1st round picks all.

So on unfulfilled potential and expectations they get respect until they prove otherwise.

But good goalies are drafted all over the place not just first round. They should have to take the same amount of time as everyone to prove themselves.

 

[Beleafer4]

Everyone mentions his glove hand and rebound control but no one ever mentions his fighting spirit.

He is one of the best second effort goalies in the league

 

[New Liskeard]

Everyone mentions his glove hand and rebound control but no one ever mentions his fighting spirit.

He is one of the best second effort goalies in the league

Its quite odd that some posters chirp about his glove hand etc, yet he puts up top numbers like this ; 19 wins, a 2.46 goals-against average, a .924 save pct. How is it a goalie with such a bad glove hand, and poor rebound control can put up those numbers?

 

[diceman934]

I'd say it's a little more than that. Bernier has faced less than half the shots Reimer has to date. If you're into statistics, I'd recommend this article over at AIH about how randomness correlates with shots against and where small sample sizes re: shots against become less problematic http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2010/4/20/1429278/fooled-by-randomness-goaltender.



I like to give Reimer's stats more weight given that he's exceeded that 2,000 shot/.930ES% threshold, but that's me, and I understand people like to evaluate goalies differently. Personally, I think puck handling ability is somewhat overrated and Reimer's inability to save glove side shots is highly overstated. I actually like Reimer's style. Very technically sound, good positionally, and he supplements that with underrated agility and athleticism (dat toe save on Bergeron )

Puck handling is very under rated .....Look at the ones who can handle the puck.....breakouts are greatly enhanced and for any team the less time the puck spends in your zone the greater the chances to win are. I am excited to see what happens this year as we are very solid between the pipes now as we have two NHL goalies who can both be number 1 goalies. The parts that you are stating that Riemer does well as strengths of Bernier.....he is a very sound goalie....Reimer has gotten better positionally as that was one of his weaknesses....moves to much...His strength is his attitude and he battles.

 

[Dangles McGavin]

Bubble team?

Oooookay. Toughest team to play against in the league. Bring it on, NHL.

 

[diceman934]

Bubble team?

Oooookay. Toughest team to play against in the league. Bring it on, NHL.

Agreed....I also think Detroit is going to get their eyes opened as this is a rough and tumble division. Not saying they will miss the playoffs but they will be in a fight to make it.

 

[Dangles McGavin]

Agreed....I also think Detroit is going to get their eyes opened as this is a rough and tumble division. Not saying they will miss the playoffs but they will be in a fight to make it.

I'm torn on Detroit.

On one hand, they're getting old, their defence is very suspect, and Jimmy Howard is so damn overrated.

On the other hand, Weiss + Alfredsson is a pretty massive upgrade, they have one of, if not, the best coach(es) in the league, and their forwards from top to bottom play a sound two-way game.

Our entire division is a toss-up. If Iginla has a good season, Boston could destroy everyone. Eriksson is an improvement over Seguin.

The east in general is just wide open. I'm amazed that the Penguins didn't jump on the possibility of grabbing Bernier when they had the chance... back to their ECHL goalie for them, I guess.

 

[wulfio*]

That's a little unfair. Those guys were one year wonders. Reimer has already faced 3000+ at the NHL level, and has put up a .915 while doing so. That's significant. I'm confident in saying Reimer will be, at the least, an average NHL goalie. The only proving he has left is not IF he's good, but HOW good he is. That's what separates the Lehtonen's from the Hiller's from the Rask's.

And like, I'd be indifferent if I didn't see "w00t w00t Bernier is our numbah 1 Reimer needs to prove himself" plastered everywhere. I get that Bernier's had his own hype train for years, but the guy's proven even less in the NHL than Reimer has. I'm not sure what I'm missing. Maybe it's just personal preference, maybe people lost faith in Reims for not being able to hold down game 7, I dunno. Goalies are pretty polarizing, it seems.

it's potential, pedigree, and despite Reimers strengths, his glaring weaknesses are just impossible to overcome. Whenever someone goes high glove on Reimer babies in Africa die.

 

[7even]

it's potential, pedigree, and despite Reimers strengths, his glaring weaknesses are just impossible to overcome. Whenever someone goes high glove on Reimer babies in Africa die.

That's weird. You'd think everyone would just shoot high glove on Reimer and expose his glaring insurmountable weakness and he'd be stopping less than a top 10 amount of shots.

It's almost like draft position from a draft 7 years ago doesn't mean all that much, or something crazy like that. Nawh but dat pedigree tho.

 

[wulfio*]

That's weird. You'd think everyone would just shoot high glove on Reimer and expose his glaring insurmountable weakness and he'd be stopping less than a top 10 amount of shots.

It's almost like draft position from a draft 7 years ago doesn't mean all that much, or something crazy like that. Nawh but dat pedigree tho.

don't know where i said draft position has anything to do with his game. but I mentioned the love affair with Bernier has to do with his pedigree among other things. Because you said you don't know what you're missing, and I kindly pointed out to you where that love affair comes from.

As for Reimers glove. if guys have a chance to shoot high glove, they do. if you've ever played real hockey, you'd know how difficult a task that can be at an organized level vs. teams with a system; I can only imagine that it becomes exponentially more difficult at the NHL level despite a goalies glaring weaknesses. but it doesn't change the fact that after a break down, or odd man rushes, etc. everyone goes high glove, and it's an extremely high % shot vs. Reimer. That's the frustrating part about his game.

But hey, be defensive, because I insulted you personally... oh wait... get a life.