Proposal: 3-way trade NYR/Calgary/Winnipeg

[Ola]

It will be very interesting to follow Winnipeg in the POs.

It’s the first time they really will be battle tested and I think they will do great. But if they fall short of winning it all — my impression has always been that an extreme amount of focus is put on analysing that one series you did lose.

Despite what has been going on before, a so-so performance by one player/part of a team/overall team ability can have a big impact on the landscape and result in drastic decisions that you must get faster/bigger/more physical/improve PP/PK or whatever. X don’t cut it in the POs. Stuff like that. And not only that, everyone also is really influenced by the team that does win it. What did they do that we didn’t?

Not saying that Winnipeg will overreact, definitely not, but there will certainly be a clearer picture of what needs to be done — if anything — with that team going forward. There always are after a young great team goes into the POs the first time firing on all cylinders.

 

[Ola]

Hamonic would be a third pairing defenseman for us. We can't afford to have him @ 3.8 next year, and certainly not the year after that.

A second rounder is a valuable pick, but it is basically redundant in a deal for Trouba.

You really don't have the assets it would take to fetch Trouba.

One asset NYR does have that could be a bit of an X-factor going forward is RHS D Neal Pionk. He is the type that some scouts really falls in love with. So poised and good at everything, within his physical boundaries so to speak. Reminds me a lot of a young Enstrom for those who followed him during his Atlanta days.

 

[Maukkis]

One asset NYR does have that could be a bit of an X-factor going forward is RHS D Neal Pionk. He is the type that some scouts really falls in love with. So poised and good at everything, within his physical boundaries so to speak. Reminds me a lot of a young Enstrom for those who followed him during his Atlanta days.

I'm not one to question your knowledge on the topic, but he is all of one year younger than Trouba and has 20 career NHL games. Pionk would be of about zero interest in a deal for a current 1D.

 

[bernmeister]

It was a very good effort by OP.

Rangers can't afford to gamble on moving Day for cheap if they elect to move Skjei at some pt, which they may do.

Also, Trouba was out with a concussion the other day.
That hopefully is nothing, but until extent of that is determined Jets won't deal him for less; either the buyer takes the risk, or 'peg holds out to ensure health is not or is less a consideration.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Where's Winnipeg in your title, No way Winnipeg accepts this deal for Jacob Trouba Hamonic and Spooner do them no good. No way is this close to getting you Trouba.

You say this for every Trouba trade

 

[Ola]

I'm not one to question your knowledge on the topic, but he is all of one year younger than Trouba and has 20 career NHL games. Pionk would be of about zero interest in a deal for a current 1D.

At the same age Brian Rafalski was a so-so D in the SHL. Played in Finland after that before debuting in the NHL when he was 26-27. There are many examples of Ds finding their game late.

Don’t get me wrong, I am definitely not claiming that Pionk “should” be a center piece in a trade for Trouba. But some scouts will definitely really like him and he could become a very valuable D in this league.

You also need cheaper players that gives you a good bang for the buck. However, he probably need to show more for a longer period of time to garner more interest. The kid is far from fantastic at this point, but what he still accomplish with a very flashy offensive game and just his tremendous consistency away from the puck is very impressive which also reflects in the praise he gets around the league despite only being up a short stint.

The reason for why I am saying that he is a bit of an X factor is because if you want someone cheap, you can’t look at players with a fantastic pedigree. And Pionk is definitely a candidate to give you a great bang for the buck the coming 5-6 years.

 

[Flamesjustwin]

Hamonic is going no where and that is terrible for the Flames, easy pass.

 

[Maukkis]

At the same age Brian Rafalski was a so-so D in the SHL. Played in Finland after that before debuting in the NHL when he was 26-27. There are many examples of Ds finding their game late.

Don’t get me wrong, I am definitely not claiming that Pionk “should” be a center piece in a trade for Trouba. But some scouts will definitely really like him and he could become a very valuable D in this league.

You also need cheaper players that gives you a good bang for the buck. However, he probably need to show more for a longer period of time to garner more interest. The kid is far from fantastic at this point, but what he still accomplish with a very flashy offensive game and just his tremendous consistency away from the puck is very impressive which also reflects in the praise he gets around the league despite only being up a short stint.

The reason for why I am saying that he is a bit of an X factor is because if you want someone cheap, you can’t look at players with a fantastic pedigree. And Pionk is definitely a candidate to give you a great bang for the buck the coming 5-6 years.

Cool, that's all I wanted to hear.

In a deal for Trouba, we are talking McAvoy, Werenski, Sergachev (obviously all prior to their rookie years), not Pionk. Trouba's value is immense.

 

[Hunter368]

It was a very good effort by OP.

Rangers can't afford to gamble on moving Day for cheap if they elect to move Skjei at some pt, which they may do.

Also, Trouba was out with a concussion the other day.
That hopefully is nothing, but until extent of that is determined Jets won't deal him for less; either the buyer takes the risk, or 'peg holds out to ensure health is not or is less a consideration.

Trouba stated he was fine next day, he's being held out to be safe b/c we don't need him with a playoff spot locked up....sitting him to be ready for the playoffs and be 100%. The offers in this thread are of zero interest to the Jets for Trouba. Zero, OP is crappy offer.

 

[bernmeister]

Trouba stated he was fine next day, he's being held out to be safe b/c we don't need him with a playoff spot locked up....sitting him to be ready for the playoffs and be 100%. The offers in this thread are of zero interest to the Jets for Trouba. Zero, OP is crappy offer.

Thank you for the update, nice to hear he's fine.

 

[Alluckks]

Why would the Jets even remotely consider that offer for Trouba.....virtually every team in the nhl would out bid that deal

Meh

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Could be!

Have this in mind though, the time to trade for Trouba is now though, ie before his next contract is signed, and you can call up his agent and negotiate a long term deal before the trade.

What would Trouba and his agent ask for in these negotiations? Dougie Hamilton got 5.75m per three years ago for 4 RFA years and 2 UFA years. Trouba is 24, have 1-2 RFA years and a guaranteed route to UFA.

I think it’s likely to assume that the ask would be: (1) We will only negotiate with a team in a location we really like, (2) 7m x 7y and NMC year 2-7.

And that ask might be on the low side. It’s ridiculous to expect top Ds in this league to make less than 7m per going forward. The Cap is going up, the NHL is doing well. The loonie has stopped falling. Next summer OEL, Doughty, Karlsson and McDonagh are hitting the UFA market.

When Brian Campbell got 7m per in 08’ it was 14% of his team’s cap. 14% of a 85m cap is 12.2m per.

7m per for 2019-2025 is not going to be top D money, it’s going to be second rate D money. A number of millions below the top guys.

How many GMs will call up Chevy willing to unload a bunch of top assets to him under those conditions? All it takes is one, sure, but I think we have seen it go both ways in this league.

Cost to retain, or the cost of a current contract in the case of a player who is already signed for term is always a part of the calculation when a player is traded. The point is that Trouba is not going to be traded for some large bundle of B/C/D level players and or prospects. I don't believe there is even the slightest chance of that happening. None, zero. Simply keeping him and going for the Cup in the 2 remaining years with him is worth more than that.

If it comes down to the option 2 in the OP, Chevy will put it out that Trouba is available. There will be competitive bidding to get him. That will lead to several offers that would blow these 2 packages right out of the water. Chevy has demonstrated that he is a very patient man. He will wait until he gets an offer that he likes. The winning bidder will be allowed to talk to Trouba's agent before the trade. They will have certainty of signing him before they commit the kind of assets it will take.

 

[Ola]

Cool, that's all I wanted to hear.

In a deal for Trouba, we are talking McAvoy, Werenski, Sergachev (obviously all prior to their rookie years), not Pionk. Trouba's value is immense.

I’d agree with you looking at the players isolated, but come on, none of those guys even remotely have the same nightmare contract situation as Trouba.

Why would you trade a young D like that who you can lock up long-term before he gets all leverage for a guy that can walk for nothing in the near future unless you meat his demands?

 

[Hunter368]

Cost to retain, or the cost of a current contract in the case of a player who is already signed for term is always a part of the calculation when a player is traded. The point is that Trouba is not going to be traded for some large bundle of B/C/D level players and or prospects. I don't believe there is even the slightest chance of that happening. None, zero. Simply keeping him and going for the Cup in the 2 remaining years with him is worth more than that.

If it comes down to the option 2 in the OP, Chevy will put it out that Trouba is available. There will be competitive bidding to get him. That will lead to several offers that would blow these 2 packages right out of the water. Chevy has demonstrated that he is a very patient man. He will wait until he gets an offer that he likes. The winning bidder will be allowed to talk to Trouba's agent before the trade. They will have certainty of signing him before they commit the kind of assets it will take.

Correct.....Trouba will not be traded for a minor package or scraps or older players. Trouba is a young top pairing D that does everything well......literally what every GM would want and there is too few out there. Three pages and I haven't seen anything even interesting yet.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Correct.....Trouba will not be traded for a minor package or scraps or older players. Trouba is a young top pairing D that does everything well......literally what every GM would want and there is too few out there. Three pages and I haven't seen anything even interesting yet.

I don't see NYR as the best of trading partners for Trouba. They have the assets to get him if they wanted to but why would they, given that they are trying to retool or rebuild? Jets would want young assets in return.

 

[Maukkis]

I’d agree with you looking at the players isolated, but come on, none of those guys even remotely have the same nightmare contract situation as Trouba.

Why would you trade a young D like that who you can lock up long-term before he gets all leverage for a guy that can walk for nothing in the near future unless you meat his demands?

To get a young surefire 1D back, I guess. Those don't move often.

 

[Hunter368]

I don't see NYR as the best of trading partners for Trouba. They have the assets to get him if they wanted to but why would they, given that they are trying to retool or rebuild? Jets would want young assets in return.

Agreed, rangers aren't ready for a big trade like that yet.....they need to get worse first.....then rebuild......no short cuts.

 

[Ola]

To get a young surefire 1D back, I guess. Those don't move often.

Yeah but you listed 4 young sure fire 1 Ds who are cost controlled for the coming 5-6 years. Why would anyone give up a McAvoy for Trouba? It’s never happening — in light of Troubas contract situation.

Regarding Winnipeg going for young assets/picks; this is a franchise that never have won a single round in the POs in its 19 year history. Talking about windows that opens and closes in this league right now is kind of misguided, because they seem to come and go in pulses in lack of a better word. But the first of those windows, ie where the youngest stars are cost controlled, close pretty fast. The west is pretty weak right now and if Winnipeg goes really deep or even wins the Cup it’s of course one thing. But there are no guarantees and you need to start to get battle tested so to speak. Taste some blood. I am not entirely convinced that picks/prospects really should be the target.

Re Rangers needing to get worse to get better, the problem is that NYR is a little too good. They will get better too fast. Even if Gorton keeps selling players this summer — I am not at all convinced that they will finish in the bottom 5. Next year they should get a top 10 pick though, but just building on the kids they have in two years they should be competing for a P.O. spot. This league is all about depth and playing a good game. NYR is very far from starting from zero and the depth is piling up. NYR can’t count on getting a Laine/Matthews to build around. Sucking is just not a button you push. It’s a long shot but NYR can rebuild their defense fairly well in a short period of time — but getting that elite offensive talent you need will be very hard. Gorton needs to pull a rabbit out of his hat. Or NYR will manage to get trapped in that classic range where you are too good to get top picks but far from good enough to compete...

 

[Maukkis]

Yeah but you listed 4 young sure fire 1 Ds who are cost controlled for the coming 5-6 years. Why would anyone give up a McAvoy for Trouba? It’s never happening — in light of Troubas contract situation.

Regarding Winnipeg going for young assets/picks; this is a franchise that never have won a single round in the POs in its 19 year history. Talking about windows that opens and closes in this league right now is kind of misguided, because they seem to come and go in pulses in lack of a better word. But the first of those windows, ie where the youngest stars are cost controlled, close pretty fast. The west is pretty weak right now and if Winnipeg goes really deep or even wins the Cup it’s of course one thing. But there are no guarantees and you need to start to get battle tested so to speak. Taste some blood. I am not entirely convinced that picks/prospects really should be the target.

Re Rangers needing to get worse to get better, the problem is that NYR is a little too good. They will get better too fast. Even if Gorton keeps selling players this summer — I am not at all convinced that they will finish in the bottom 5. Next year they should get a top 10 pick though, but just building on the kids they have in two years they should be competing for a P.O. spot. This league is all about depth and playing a good game. NYR is very far from starting from zero and the depth is piling up. NYR can’t count on getting a Laine/Matthews to build around. Sucking is just not a button you push. It’s a long shot but NYR can rebuild their defense fairly well in a short period of time — but getting that elite offensive talent you need will be very hard. Gorton needs to pull a rabbit out of his hat. Or NYR will manage to get trapped in that classic range where you are too good to get top picks but far from good enough to compete...

Did you even read what I posted? I stated "McAvoy/Werenski/Sergachev PRIOR to their rookie years", i.e. a prospect of their caliber, not an established 20-year old playing like a top pairing defenseman.

As for never winning a playoff game, we were told that two years ago. People tried to convince Jets fans about trading Trouba for Hamonic back then, as a way of getting better quicker. Chevy did not bite, and look how it turned out. Hamonic regressed, whereas Trouba's game skyrocketed. He is the defenseman we need to keep, even if it means paying a little bit of extra. If he does not want to stay, too bad. That bridge can be crossed when we come to it. That does not mean we have to take a piss poor deal for the privilege of losing a #1 defenseman.

 

[Ola]

Maukkis- Yeah I read that but I don’t think I understand. Do you mean a great prospect that you didn’t know was great or what?

What is a McAvoys value prior to his rookie year? I don’t follow.

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

Spooner can't crack the lineup, not skilled enough for our top 9 and not strong enough for our fourth.

No interest

 

[howkie]

Spooner can't crack the lineup, not skilled enough for our top 9 and not strong enough for our fourth.

No interest

Should not write off Spooner that quick, I think he would fit nice between Laine and Ehlers as a pure offensive line feasting on good matchups (next season when Stats has walked)

 

[tradenashnow]

Jacob Trouba will start to negotiate a new contract with Winnipeg this summer. He is guaranteed to get to UFA in 2 years if he wants to go that route. We all know the water that has passed under the bridge between Trouba and Winnipeg.

Winnipeg will not be able to afford all of their players. Hellebuyck is arbitration eligible coming off a great year. Trouba is arbitration eligible and his agent will want a kings ransom. Morrissey will be a group II with no arbitration rights but he won’t be playing for entry level money again. Winnipeg likes to sign their young guys to expensive long term 2nd contracts. Enstrom is a group III and they want to keep him. Myers and Wheeler will be Group III in 2019. Laine will be a group II in 19. That’s going to be a humongous monster contract. Where are they finding the money to satisfy everyone?

There can from my perspective mainly be two alternative scenarios this summer:
Alternative 1. Trouba loves playing with Winnipeg, and the sick team they are building, and is willing to sign a long-term deal with them.
Alternative 2. Trouba tells Chevy thanks but no thanks, I am only willing to discuss a 1-2 year deal which will take me to UFA.

IF, Trouba opts for Alternative 2, it seems very likely that Trouba won't have along future in Winnipeg. And Chevy must make a decision, either trade him next season or the season after that or risk letting him go for free.

I have -- no clue -- which alternatives Trouba and Chevy will go for. But having followed numerous situations like this the last 2-3 decades in this league, I know that they sometimes end up with a player -- Jacob Trouba in this case -- getting traded. I know that Winnipeg would love to keep Trouba on a long term deal and that there make zero sense for them to trade him if that option is on the table.

But this proposal is based on the assumption that Trouba lets Chevy know that he won't sign for longer than 2 years and that Chevy decides that its time to trade him.

I just want to point that out -- because I know the above can debated endlessly and such debate wouldn't take us any closer to what might or might not happen. Its all speculation. Hence I don't want this thread to be about if Trouba loves it in Winnipeg or not or if Chevy will or won't trade him even if he hates it there. Nobody knows either way so its pretty meaningless to discuss.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Trade 1

NYR trades Boston or Tampa's 1st round pick in 2019, Sean Day and Ryan Gropp to CALGARY for Travis Hamonic

Trade 2

NYR trades Travis Hamonic, Ryan Spooner and a 2nd round pick in 2019 to WINNIPEG for Jacob Trouba

Comment: Calgary gave up a 1st plus two 2nds for Hamonic who has struggled for them. Now they get a 1st plus two so-so prospects in return (a former 2nd and 3rd round pick).

Both Travis Hammonic and Ryan Spooner have separately been mentioned by reliable sources as targets for Winnipeg when Trouba trades with Boston or the Islanders have been discussed in the past. Spooner has been sick in a bigger role for NYR with 13 pts in 12 games. Winnipeg want to compete now. Its very hard to get a RD that can play. A 2nd in 19' is going to have a lot of value.

Thoughts? Is the feeling in Winnipeg that Statsny will resign there removing any need they might have to get Spooner?

Why even post things like this. Oh boy. The Rangers just got out of paying a defenseman two years down the line 8 million. Honestly, I don't like Trouba that much. Rangers are going to try to put together a cheap, young, new core for a while. You as a Rangers fan should know that.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

The other option is that Jets need Trouba for their Cup run for next two full seasons. They keep Trouba and he goes a UFA. UFAs leave their teams all the time. If keeping him makes the Jets stronger, maybe they keep him.

But the reality is I think the best value for the Jets in a trade will be this summer. Two full years of Trouba to some team.

 

[Ori]

Yes, we need to draft a 1 D - not an easy fix or shortcut for us Rangers.