3 Regulation Wins in the last 20

[joshjull]

So he didn't get a job because all teams in the league don't like him?

With the amount of coaching and managment changes, somebody somewhere has to like him.

Are you even familiar with his history and what happened here? There was an incredible amount of behind the scenes fighting between Muckler and Nolan as well as other parties getting involved like Larry Quinn and Hasek and the other players. After the season Nolan won the Jack Adams Muckler was fired and Regier was brought in. Darcy was leery of committing to Nolan due to what happened previously so Nolan got a 1 year offer that he turned down. Nolan was widely viewed by hockey execs around the league as the reason Muckler got fired and the cause of the behind the scenes chaos here. Few were looking to offer him a job after he left Buffalo. He was basically blackballed by many of them.

He was eventually offered other jobs in the league but turned them down. Tampa head coach in 1997 and an assistant job with Isles in 1998. Then he went 8 years without a NHL offer until the Isles came calling.

No NHL team like his coaching style, but somehow he's a good coach?

Not even the Oilers who hire basically everybody to coach their team, didn't think damn this guy has a Jack Adams, he must be awesome. The thing is no NHL team thinks he's a good coach.

Yes many NHL exec types don't like his style of coaching. Paul Hamilton has talked about this quite a bit. Nolan's not about X and Os or systems implemented by him. He leaves that to his assistants and he takes a hands on personal approach to players. Hamilton talks about how its created the most incredible dynamic he's ever seen. On the one hand you have hockey execs that don't take Nolan seriously because of his style. But on the other hand you have 99% of the players he's ever coached love him and would go through wall for him. Which led to him getting the most out of the rosters he was given.

Obviously the execs doing the hiring of coaches not players. It took one of Nolan's former players getting into the NHL exec fraternity to get him another gig.

Nolan is what it is, a short term solution. I doubt he'll get another shot after this one.

I agree he is likely a short term solution here. But I disagree that he is a poor NHL coach. Every NHL chance he's had he's gotten the most out of the rosters he's had. This year is a bit different since the team goals aren't quite the same as they were in his other stints.

 

[Duddy]

What's his style? Why doesn't he make a good NHL coach?

These are two questions that I have whenever I see someone say they don't like his coaching style, or he isn't a good NHL coach. I have yet to see some break down either issue.

Does his style pertain to how he handles players? Does his style pertain to how he implements lineups? Does his style pertain to how he uses zone pressures?

What makes a good NHL coach? What are the requirements for making a good head coach?

I'm curious on the naysayers as they seem to be in the majority that seem to say these things like it's a fact. If these statements are so factual please tell me why they are so true.

BTW, I don't think he will be signed to a longer deal than 2 years after this year.

The fact that remember this one is important no NHL team wanted him since he departed from the Islanders YEARS ago.

If I wouldn't be so ****ing lazy I would find the correct number of coaching and management changes since then.

The fact that no matter how disfuntioned an NHL franchise ice, no team hired the great Jack Adams winnner Ted Nolan.

Ruff got a job right after leaving Buffalo, why didn't Nolan get one after the Islanders gig? why do guys from the AHL getting jobs and not someone with a Jack Adams on his resume?

If his "getting the best out of everybody" why didn't the Oilers hire him? They suck year after year with a core of borderline elite talent? Why not the Canucks who are on the verge of a rebuild that could've/ still could use a guy that gets the best out of his team? I mean why is he coaching the Latvian national team and not a better one? It's because no one wants him.

It's not my sole opinion that he' jut not a good coach, the whole freaking NHL thinks it. Aside from his buddy LaLa.


But whatever, I'm not getting a kick out of this, for some of you he's a great coach, for the NHL he's a bad coach that's not good enough to still be in the NHL.

 

[gallagt01]

Breaking: bad team has bad record.

Accept the fact that the team is bad, on track to introduce a quality player into the organization via a high draft pick, and be done with it. That there's an ongoing argument behind why the team is bad less than a calendar year after shipping its best players off for draft picks and prospects is silly.

 

[joshjull]

Sacco also has a Jack Adams so I guess we have the makings of a legendary coaching staff

Touche

 

[joshjull]

The fact that remember this one is important no NHL team wanted him since he departed from the Islanders YEARS ago.

If I wouldn't be so ****ing lazy I would find the correct number of coaching and management changes since then.

The fact that no matter how disfuntioned an NHL franchise ice, no team hired the great Jack Adams winnner Ted Nolan.

Ruff got a job right after leaving Buffalo, why didn't Nolan get one after the Islanders gig? why do guys from the AHL getting jobs and not someone with a Jack Adams on his resume?

If his "getting the best out of everybody" why didn't the Oilers hire him? They suck year after year with a core of borderline elite talent? Why not the Canucks who are on the verge of a rebuild that could've/ still could use a guy that gets the best out of his team? I mean why is he coaching the Latvian national team and not a better one? It's because no one wants him.

It's not my sole opinion that he' jut not a good coach, the whole freaking NHL thinks it. Aside from his buddy LaLa.

Why are you being so petulant and snarky about this? Its obvious you know next to nothing of Nolan's work history and are railing away for its own sake.

But whatever, I'm not getting a kick out of this, for some of you he's a great coach, for the NHL he's a bad coach that's not good enough to still be in the NHL.

Who said he was a great coach? This all started with you quoting me and my disagreement with Rob Paxon saying he is a poor NHL coach. To me, using basic definitions, being poor at something implies you tried it and were poor at it. Well the two times he's been a NHL coach he wasn't poor and did a good job with what he had. So I disagreed with the assertion. I've yet to see an actual argument from you as to why he is a bad NHL coach other than railing about no one in the NHL hiring him. That means they didn't think he was the answer or they felt others were the better option.

 

[OkimLom]

The fact that remember this one is important no NHL team wanted him since he departed from the Islanders YEARS ago.

If I wouldn't be so ****ing lazy I would find the correct number of coaching and management changes since then.

The fact that no matter how disfuntioned an NHL franchise ice, no team hired the great Jack Adams winnner Ted Nolan.

Ruff got a job right after leaving Buffalo, why didn't Nolan get one after the Islanders gig? why do guys from the AHL getting jobs and not someone with a Jack Adams on his resume?

If his "getting the best out of everybody" why didn't the Oilers hire him? They suck year after year with a core of borderline elite talent? Why not the Canucks who are on the verge of a rebuild that could've/ still could use a guy that gets the best out of his team? I mean why is he coaching the Latvian national team and not a better one? It's because no one wants him.

It's not my sole opinion that he' jut not a good coach, the whole freaking NHL thinks it. Aside from his buddy LaLa.


But whatever, I'm not getting a kick out of this, for some of you he's a great coach, for the NHL he's a bad coach that's not good enough to still be in the NHL.

So because he's not liked, then he's not a good NHL coach? So that makes Paul Marice, a great head coach? I mean, he gets hired by everyone it seems.

You still haven't answered why his style isn't liked by anybody. You are just assuming because nobody hired the guy, then that must mean he's a bad coach.

And sure his "buddy" hired him. But his "buddy" is a well respected former NHL player who's opinion is well respected around the league and sees Nolan as someone good enough to get what he needs Currently out of the Sabres. There was, at no point, where they said he would be here longer. But if you want to be one of those people that thinks Hiring Murray came with a stipulation that Nolan must be kept on longer, then go ahead, but the hiring of Nolan tells me he was GOOD ENOUGH to give him a chance to correct what is wrong with the team.

That is all you need in this league, a chance.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

I like that Nolan is here Right now because I feel like our lockeroom was a pretty crappy place to be lately.

It seemed like a pretty bad place to try an develop young guys. It started with Ruff kinda losing the team, then Rolston didn't help.. Probably hard to take it seriously when that guy is your coach. Garden gloves bros.


They seem to like Nolan, and they seem to like playing for him. That's big when it might be hard to find motivation, especially at this point in the season.

If Nolan can keep the morale up, keep developing guys, and eventually start winning some games I don't see why we should get rid of him until he proves it's too much for him.

And I feel like, at a professional level, talent is the #1 factor in determining wins and losses.... There are many types of coaches that can win it all.

Some coaches have won it all, and now they are out of work. What's the difference between a coach winning a cup and a coach getting fired from that same team? Talent.

 

[Jim Bob]

If Nolan can keep the morale up, keep developing guys, and eventually start winning some games I don't see why we should get rid of him until he proves it's too much for him.

Who is Nolan developing besides ZG and Myers?

The bulk of the kids got sent down and a few of the young D are getting cycled up and down the 90 (Pysyk, McNabb, Rudy).

It seems to me like the Nolan move was more to try and figure out what vets they want to keep around to mentor kids moving forward versus actually developing guys in the NHL this season.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

Who is Nolan developing besides ZG and Myers?

The bulk of the kids got sent down and a few of the young D are getting cycled up and down the 90 (Pysyk, McNabb, Rudy).

It seems to me like the Nolan move was more to try and figure out what vets they want to keep around to mentor kids moving forward versus actually developing guys in the NHL this season.

I would consider Hodgson, Ennis, Foligno, Myers, Girgs, Pysyk, Ruhwedel, And McNabb Youngsters.

Particularly when you look at how their first few years in the league went.


Maybe "develop" is the wrong word. I feel that Nolan provide a stable, simple environment for guys who don't need a lot on their plate.

It seems like a lot of turmoil for a lot of the young guys, maybe too much responsibility, and unclear instruction..... All on top of being on a bad team.


I get your point about the vets.... But I think there is a reason why Nolan leans on vets in situations where try aren't the most logical choice.

 

[Jim Bob]

I would consider Hodgson, Ennis, Foligno, Myers, Girgs, Pysyk, Ruhwedel, And McNabb Youngsters.

Particularly when you look at how their first few years in the league went.

How much have Pysyk, Ruhwedel, and McNabb really played for Nolan?

And amongst Hodgson, Ennis, and Foligno, how much growth has their really been under Nolan? Foligno doesn't really look to have made any sort of steps forward since the change, that I can see. Hodgson has been pretty much the same type of player and Ennis is a little more physically engaged, but that hasn't helped his offensive production at all.

 

[wunderpanda]

Because? I mean if you are using this year to make this argument thats as silly as the poster claiming having more talent wouldn't matter

What I meant, in context, was that adding offensive minded players wouldn't matter because they would be plugged in to a system that doesn't adjust to accentuate those skills. Yes, adding solid, better 2 way players like Bergeron would of course help, but adding offensive minded players wouldn't, they would be exposed defensively while having their point production inhibited.

Maybe I am way off base with this line of thinking, just the impression I have is that he prefers interchangeable pieces, that he will implement a 30 goal scorer the same way he would a 30 point grinder.

 

[brian_griffin]

I think the premise of this thread is rather inane. I'm not posting this to incite anything, simply trying to get people to think clearly.

1. How many regulation wins in the last 20 games would be meaningful or relevant?

Instead of 3, would 5 be sufficient? How about 10? 15? What if BUF won all 20?

Would it mean the roster was a Cup contender?
Would it mean BUF doesn't need to pursue a high draft choice for this and next year?
Would it mean Nolan is permanently channeling Jack Adams, and should be extended?
Would it mean Miller should be offered 8yr x $8M extension and the top 10 floors of the Statler?

2. Should each and every NHL team shed it's coach every time it hits a 20-game rough patch? Talent be damned, injuries be damned, flu/colds be damned, etc.?

3. More specifically, what purpose would it serve for BUF to shed Nolan after a short stint? Would it change the outcome of the season? Would players develop faster? Would it attract a better coaching candidate - someone who's willing to be the 4th coach in <2 full seasons? [We'll ignore whether there is a more desired candidate immeidately available.]

Lafontaine and Nolan were brought in to provide immeidate stability to a dysfunctional situation. To put out the tire fire, if you will. Lafontaine calls someone who: (1) He's danced with before. (2) Trusts. (3) Knows will be loyal to him. (4) Is available. (5) Knows will welcome the opportunity, work hard, and appreciate it. (6) Strongly believes can get some fresh air into the locker room and displace the palor of death and decay. (7) Strongly believes can connect gutturally with players, instead of only cerebrally. Nolan's role in BUF is to steady the ship after it was adrift. There's no commitment made yet that he'll be the Captain who circumnavigates the globe with that same ship.

 

[joshjull]

I think the premise of this thread is rather inane. I'm not posting this to incite anything, simply trying to get people to think clearly.

1. How many regulation wins in the last 20 games would be meaningful or relevant?

Instead of 3, would 5 be sufficient? How about 10? 15? What if BUF won all 20?

Would it mean the roster was a Cup contender?
Would it mean BUF doesn't need to pursue a high draft choice for this and next year?
Would it mean Nolan is permanently channeling Jack Adams, and should be extended?
Would it mean Miller should be offered 8yr x $8M extension and the top 10 floors of the Statler?

2. Should each and every NHL team shed it's coach every time it hits a 20-game rough patch? Talent be damned, injuries be damned, flu/colds be damned, etc.?

3. More specifically, what purpose would it serve for BUF to shed Nolan after a short stint? Would it change the outcome of the season? Would players develop faster? Would it attract a better coaching candidate - someone who's willing to be the 4th coach in <2 full seasons? [We'll ignore whether there is a more desired candidate immeidately available.]

Lafontaine and Nolan were brought in to provide immeidate stability to a dysfunctional situation. To put out the tire fire, if you will. Lafontaine calls someone who: (1) He's danced with before. (2) Trusts. (3) Knows will be loyal to him. (4) Is available. (5) Knows will welcome the opportunity, work hard, and appreciate it. (6) Strongly believes can get some fresh air into the locker room and displace the palor of death and decay. (7) Strongly believes can connect gutturally with players, instead of only cerebrally. Nolan's role in BUF is to steady the ship after it was adrift. There's no commitment made yet that he'll be the Captain who circumnavigates the globe with that same ship.

Great post and points