Player Discussion 3 Reasons Why the Canucks Will Be a Tougher Team This Season

[me2]

Would be curious to see the teams record with Edler in the lineup for example. Were they a playoff team with him in the lineup? Wouldn't doubt it.

18 regulation wins in 55 games and 22 regulation losses. And a whole lot of lottery OT/SO.

That just highlights the issue this team had last year. It had less regulation wins in 2018-19 than in 2017-18, it also had more regulation losses in 2018-19 than in 2017-18.

 

[Hoghandler]

18 regulation wins in 55 games and 22 regulation losses. And a whole lot of lottery OT/SO.

That just highlights the issue this team had last year. It had less regulation wins in 2018-19 than in 2017-18, it also had more regulation losses in 2018-19 than in 2017-18.

Point pace not good enough to make the playoffs with Edler in the lineup?

They also had one of the worst records in the NHL in 1 goal games didn't they?

 

[Javaman]

And yet you have made absolutely no effort to support your claim that the team wasn't any tougher to play against this past season with the additions made.

Whereas I cited the PK was improved, with a couple PK additions in Beagle and Roussel that could have played their part.

I have no problem with you holding a different opinion, even though you provided absolutely no evidence and didn't 'prove' anything.

That's the thing. I didn't make a claim. Being skeptical of your claim is not the same as making a claim of my own.

You made the claim... therefore you bear the responsibility of defending the claim. That's how these things work.

Elsewise your posts are just pure logical fallacy. And not worthy of response.

 

[Hit the post]

They were projected to finish there for sure.

With being decimated by injuries to the top half of the roster, while being picked to finish dead last by many going into the season, they certainly exceeded expectations. Hence why virtually every media outlet that covered them said as much. They were competitive in most games, just obviously didn't have the Horses to be a good team, especially when you go through like 15 dmen.

Fans underestimate just how impactful injuries are to how a team performs in a season. Very difficult to survive if your top dmen miss significant time. Canucks top 2 dmen missed 30 games each.

Would be curious to see the teams record with Edler in the lineup for example. Were they a playoff team with him in the lineup? Wouldn't doubt it.

Nobody is saying this team was a world beater. Though close to 1/3 of the league did finish below them.

Injuries excuse didn't save Torts or Gilligan's job.

 

[Hoghandler]

That's the thing. I didn't make a claim. Being skeptical of your claim is not the same as making a claim of my own.

You made the claim... therefore you bear the responsibility of defending the claim. That's how these things work.

Elsewise your posts are just pure logical fallacy. And not worthy of response.

I was responding to your claim doubting the team was in fact any harder to play against. That's where you jumped into this thread.

Not sure why you don't feel the need to to defend your own position or 'bear the responsibility'. Maybe try that first before asking others to prove something that is so obviously subjective.

 

[MS]

The notion that we were supposed to be dead last last season is a massive strawman. Detroit and Ottawa were widely considered the two worst teams in the NHL heading into the season and we were considered a bottom 3-5 team by most. And yes, that’s still bad but let’s not overstate things or make things up.

We did a bit better than that finishing 23rd but were 26th in regulation and propped up by our OT record. So in regulation, we were 1 spot better than the bottom 5 position we were projected at. Whoopee. That this is considered some sort of big success highlights just how low the bar for Benning is.

And, per the topic of this thread, any improvement we made was almost entirely on the back of breakout seasons by Horvat and Markstrom and because Pettersson is really good. Not because of some mythical contribution by the grit of Jay Beagle.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

In 2018-19, he not only dished out 124 hits but he also sacrificed his body to the vulcanized rubber 128 times. That, my friends, is the definition of grit.

Alexander Edler had 166 blocks and 127 hits in just 56 games. I dont think the numbers you posted make Benn's production "the definition of grit."

Also Im not convinced having a lot of blocks is necessarily a good thing. It probably means you are in your own end, with out the puck, and the opposing player is getting a shot off.

However, toughness doesn’t only include the willingness to sacrifice the body. It is also making it difficult for opponents to navigate the defensive zone. Overall, Benn has been an analytics dream. Over his eight-year NHL career, he has averaged a 51 Corsi for percentage (CF%). With him on the ice, his team has the puck more often than not which is very good for a defenseman. The toughness of the blue line has increased with the addition of Benn.

He has been a negative corsi rel% 7 out of 8 of his seasons with pretty even ozone/dzone splits.

Apart from Antoine Roussel, the Canucks have lacked a physical deterrent in their top six. Enter Micheal Ferland. Signed to a four-year contract on July 9, he will add a certain toughness and scoring ability not seen in Vancouver since Alex Burrows and Ryan Kesler.

I think you were closer with your first guy. Ferland compares to Roussel. He is on a completely different (lower) tier offensively than Burrows / Kesler. Burrows hitting 28, 35, 26, 28 goals and Kesler with 21,26,25,41,22 at their offensive peaks. Compared to Ferlands 15,21,17.

Also Burrows and Kesler were getting Selke votes, with Kesler winning it in 2010.

Known for being a physical and nasty piece of business, Ferland will make opponents think twice before taking liberties with two of the best players on the roster.

This sounds like something people said about Gudbranson last summer.

Despite the transition to skill and speed, there is still a need for size. With the additions of Myers and JT Miller, the Canucks will be able to better compete with the likes of the San Jose Sharks and Vegas Golden Knights. Both have bigger bodies and play a more physical brand of hockey, which has confounded the Canucks in recent years.

Honestly?

Maybe the fact that the Canucks had 3 players with 20 goals or more while the Sharks had 4 with 30 goals or more, Vegas had 5 with +20 and Smith with 19, confounded the Canucks more than their physical play?

 

[Hoghandler]

The notion that we were supposed to be dead last last season is a massive strawman. Detroit and Ottawa were widely considered the two worst teams in the NHL heading into the season and we were considered a bottom 3-5 team by most. And yes, that’s still bad but let’s not overstate things or make things up.

We did a bit better than that finishing 23rd but were 26th in regulation and propped up by our OT record. So in regulation, we were 1 spot better than the bottom 5 position we were projected at. Whoopee. That this is considered some sort of big success highlights just how low the bar for Benning is.

And, per the topic of this thread, any improvement we made was almost entirely on the back of breakout seasons by Horvat and Markstrom and because Pettersson is really good. Not because of some mythical contribution by the grit of Jay Beagle.

You're also discounting the brutal injuries this team faced and underestimating how devastating injuries are to teams that lose their top pairing dmen. Both of our top pairing dmen missed a third of the season each.

Not to mention the team was competitive almost every night. Green got a lot out of his players and the word around the league was how this team came to play every night. This was supposed to be a dreadful team battling for the 1st overall pick and they very rarely looked like that team.

When Edler was in the lineup, pretty sure they played at a playoff pace. That was a major surprise for what we had all expected, media included. To do that over a 55 game stretch was impressive, hence why so much of the story around this team was about how they had been exceeding expectations and played a solid team game.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

When Edler was in the lineup, pretty sure they played at a playoff pace.

That sounds like something you could actually find out.

 

[MS]

You're also discounting the brutal injuries this team faced and underestimating how devastating injuries are to teams that lose their top pairing dmen. Both of our top pairing dmen missed a third of the season each.

Not to mention the team was competitive almost every night. Green got a lot out of his players and the word around the league was how this team came to play every night. This was supposed to be a dreadful team battling for the 1st overall pick and they very rarely looked like that team.

When Edler was in the lineup, pretty sure they played at a playoff pace. That was a major surprise for what we had all expected, media included. To do that over a 55 game stretch was impressive, hence why so much of the story around this team was about how they had been exceeding expectations and played a solid team game.

They were a below-.500 team in regulation with a negative goal differential with Edler in the lineup but won a bunch of OT games. All of the underlying numbers clearly indicate this was not a playoff team, healthy players or not.

But even if this were true ... Edler and Tanev have 1 70-game season between them in their combined last 12 seasons. Barring a miracle, they're going to get hurt again this year. Rinse and repeat.

 

[4Twenty]

And yet you have made absolutely no effort to support your claim that the team wasn't any tougher to play against this past season with the additions made.

Whereas I cited the PK was improved, with a couple PK additions in Beagle and Roussel that could have played their part.

I have no problem with you holding a different opinion, even though you provided absolutely no evidence and didn't 'prove' anything.

PK improvement could/should be almost exclusively credited to the goalie who put up Vezina level numbers for a 3 months in a row.

 

[timw33]

You're also discounting the brutal injuries this team faced and underestimating how devastating injuries are to teams that lose their top pairing dmen. Both of our top pairing dmen missed a third of the season each.

Not to mention the team was competitive almost every night. Green got a lot out of his players and the word around the league was how this team came to play every night. This was supposed to be a dreadful team battling for the 1st overall pick and they very rarely looked like that team.

When Edler was in the lineup, pretty sure they played at a playoff pace. That was a major surprise for what we had all expected, media included. To do that over a 55 game stretch was impressive, hence why so much of the story around this team was about how they had been exceeding expectations and played a solid team game.

Hrm, whose job is it again to build adequate depth to overcome yearly injuries that every team faces?

Who could have predicted that [guy who gets injured every year] would get injured this year. If they were healthy we'd be in the playoffs!!

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

That sounds like something you could actually find out.

The Canucks were 28-22-5 when Edler played , 7-14-5 when he was out.

 

[Krnuckfan]

The Canucks were 28-22-5 when Edler played , 7-14-5 when he was out.

Yeah I'm sure Edler being out is the sole factor for that right? These are such simplistic dumb arguments. When pettersson was out the canucks record is identical to the canucks record when he played. Let's just trade him since he doesn't make us a better team.

 

[MS]

Yeah I'm sure Edler being out is the sole factor for that right? These are such simplistic dumb arguments. When pettersson was out the canucks record is identical to the canucks record when he played. Let's just trade him since he doesn't make us a better team.

The biggest difference in records with Edler in/out is due to the OT coinflip - we went 10-5 in OT with him in the lineup and 3-5 with him out.

We were 18-22-15 in regulation this year with Edler in the lineup with a negative goal differential. He obviously helped a bit in the standings but this notion that we were a playoff team with him that missed the playoffs only because of his unlucky injury is just nonsense.

 

[Fire Benning]

I'm going to be honest I think this gets said every summer.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Yeah I'm sure Edler being out is the sole factor for that right? These are such simplistic dumb arguments. When pettersson was out the canucks record is identical to the canucks record when he played. Let's just trade him since he doesn't make us a better team.

I wasn't making any argument...

 

[krutovsdonut]

Yeah I'm sure Edler being out is the sole factor for that right? These are such simplistic dumb arguments. When pettersson was out the canucks record is identical to the canucks record when he played. Let's just trade him since he doesn't make us a better team.

uh, he answered another poster's question. it's amazing how defensive people are around here.

 

[Fire Benning]

Canucks add toughness in free agency: Benning

"We want to be a harder team to play against and I think the players we added make us harder,"

From July 1 of last year.

 

[MS]

Canucks add toughness in free agency: Benning



From July 1 of last year.

There would also be similar articles in 2014 when we picked up Dorsett, 2015 when we picked up Sutter and Prust, and 2016 when we picked up Gudbranson. This is the definition of a Groundhog Day subject. 2017 is the only offseason out of 6 where Benning wasn't grousing about making the team tougher to play against with new gritty players.

 

[Fire Benning]

Somewhat unrelated I guess but that article also has this gem:

Signing the 32-year-old to a four-year deal raised some eyebrows, but the team doesn't have any concerns about Beagle's play deteriorating, Benning said.

 

[F A N]

As relevant as when Benning called Guillaume Brisbois = Gilliam; obviously anyone could tell that Benning had no clue whatsoever about that prospect. Just as I believe Ferland knew next to nothing about this Canuck team he's joining. Indicates that he's here for the money and the wife, the team is secondary. He's a merc for hire, not a dedicated core piece. Even agreed to exspansion exposure, if I'm not mistaken.

I actually don't think expansion draft exposure is that big of a deal for many players. I mean you move from Vancouver to Seattle. Given Las Vegas' success, the new team might be able to compete right away.

Ferland now has a young family. His wife also happens to be a hockey player. We can speculate all we want. I can guess and say that his wife would call him out if he had mailed it in.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

There would also be similar articles in 2014 when we picked up Dorsett, 2015 when we picked up Sutter and Prust, and 2016 when we picked up Gudbranson. This is the definition of a Groundhog Day subject. 2017 is the only offseason out of 6 where Benning wasn't grousing about making the team tougher to play against with new gritty players.

Del Zotto in 2017 was definitely a toughness play.

 

[Seatoo]

I guess we won't know whether he's a Gudbranson or a Schenn, until we see him in action for this team. Let's hope he at least figures out the names of the guys he's going to be playing with.

I sure hope we can aim a little higher with Ferland than Guddy or Schenn Jesus Christ

 

[Siludin]

The big question to me is not injuries to a particular player, but the general issue the Canucks have had with injuries the past two seasons. I would suggest that if they are not in the top-15 of this bar chart this season, they are in the playoffs.

NHL Injury Viz: 2017/18 team injury breakdowns

NHL Injury Viz: 2018/19 team injury breakdowns

This is pretty noteworthy.