Player Discussion 3 Reasons Why the Canucks Will Be a Tougher Team This Season

[Hoghandler]

It’s the same way you constantly hear ‘man, our guy getting in that fight really fired up the team!’ .... except the other team also had a guy in a fight firing them up.

Amusingly, in studies done on this sort of stuff (and it’s been linked here in the past but I can’t find it now) there’s actually a negative correlation between winning fights and the team’s response. IIRC, in fights where there was a decisive winner and another goal was scored in the game, the team who won the fight only scored the next goal 47% of the time. And same deal for injuries, where there has also been a negative correlation between the amount of fighting majors a team has and man-games lost to injury.

It's crazy how many times you have talked about toughness and deemed it useless, while not even addressing the actual benefit of having some toughness and push back. The biggest benefit of having that element on your team is for team morale. Next to losing, there is nothing more demoralising to team morale than getting pushed around, manhandled physically and beat up with no response. Having guys that stick up for teammates, respond in kind to cheapshots and not let the opposition get away with trying to intimidate through these tactics has value. There is value in team toughness, which spurs on team cohesion and a sense that the group is more important than the individual.

It's not relevant who wins the fight. It's sticking up for one another and having that pack mentality that matters.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Still waiting for anyone to provide any gathered by anyone anywhere that demonstrates being a tougher team means being a better team. And I don't mean anecdotal evidence from the "Do you even lift, bruh?!" crowd.

 

[moog35]

Lol@ Gudbranson being tough.

Please explain to me how Gudbrandson isn’t tough

 

[Marcel]

Still waiting for anyone to provide any gathered by anyone anywhere that demonstrates being a tougher team means being a better team. And I don't mean anecdotal evidence from the "Do you even lift, bruh?!" crowd.

Not sure whose arguing a tougher team means a better team.

A big and strong team should allow the teams talent to play out.

If the talent isn't good enough to win then it won't.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Not sure whose arguing a tougher team means a better team.

A big and strong team should allow the teams talent to play out.

If the talent isn't good enough to win then it won't.

Sorry, I just thought the thread topic somehow applied to the Canucks actually doing better next year than they have previously.

 

[Hoghandler]

Still waiting for anyone to provide any gathered by anyone anywhere that demonstrates being a tougher team means being a better team. And I don't mean anecdotal evidence from the "Do you even lift, bruh?!" crowd.

Do you believe morale can affect organisations?

I have never seen an ounce of data showing players with high hockey IQ help lead to better teams. Doesn't mean I wouldn't put value in it.

 

[Scott Stevens]

As relevant as when Benning called Guillaume Brisbois = Gilliam; obviously anyone could tell that Benning had no clue whatsoever about that prospect. Just as I believe Ferland knew next to nothing about this Canuck team he's joining. Indicates that he's here for the money and the wife, the team is secondary. He's a merc for hire, not a dedicated core piece. Even agreed to exspansion exposure, if I'm not mistaken.

Is there video of this “Gilliam” thing? I believe it with all my heart. I just want a laugh.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Is there video of this “Gilliam” thing? I believe it with all my heart. I just want a laugh.

Like ..you've never mispronounced a foreign name before ?....Cant be any worse than Stan Smyl saying 'from the KHL ...the Vancouver Canucks are proud to select Vaselini Pod Calzone"...

 

[Hit the post]

Please explain to me how Gudbrandson isn’t tough

He's tough to watch.

 

[Scott Stevens]

Like ..you've never mispronounced a foreign name before ?....Cant be any worse than Stan Smyl saying 'from the KHL ...the Vancouver Canucks are proud to select Vaselini Pod Calzone"...

A master hockey scout likely has seen a billion French names. With any brain cells whatsoever “Gilliam” would never happen.

But not our Benning.

 

[Bankerguy]

Replace Pouliot's minutes with Myers
(a lot more size, and definitely a bit tougher)

Replace Eriksson's minutes with Ferland

Replace Granlund's minutes with JT Miller

its not like Myers and Grandlund are super tough guys... but if u compare who's minutes they'll replace... and you can definitely see that we're getting more hits, more size and more effectiveness in the corners / on the wall

 

[Boesersflow123]

I like the group going forward and we definitely improved and got tougher. I think the addition of Ferland was a good and smart move, makes the Tanev deal in Pitts look bad on term. He is also a player that can play in the top 6 and produce some points which is good. He will be good for helping create space for Petey and Boeser.

Pearson and Horvat are heavy players and can play a down low gritty game and go hard on the forecheck. It will be nice to see Podzolkin in a year or two depending on what happens with the contract scenario but he will have a edge to his game from what I have heard. Some ppl also think he will be elite hopefully.

As for Myers yeah he isn't a great fighter and loses his balance often from what I have notice but he can throw some mean hits and help control a scrum which is good, probably clear the net as well, I am sure the team will let it be known they want him to use his size. Hopefully he can keep the net clear like Tryamkin did.

Benn is a good bottom pairing Dman that will bring some grit to the team and will get into the hard areas and get involved.

I think this group will look very good in 2 years.

 

[Hoglander]

Is there video of this “Gilliam” thing? I believe it with all my heart. I just want a laugh.

I tried few searches and got nothing, but there is this:

Player Discussion: Guillaume "Gilliam" Brisebois - 2015, 66th Overall

At least it backs me up lol

 

[Javaman]

I take it you've never played in a competitive sport where intimidation is allowed? The team is a bigger, stronger team which in turn makes everyone on the team grow an inch or two.

The more comfortable a player is the more effective he is.

Fingers crossed that with a bigger, stronger team and a better schedule this year the injuries go down significantly.

And its not just this seasons additions, the pipeline has some bigger, stronger prospects who stand a chance of making the parent team over the coming seasons.

Your reply is kind of a silly post, isn't it?

Others have addressed your points. I don't see the value in adding more.

 

[Askel]

Replace Pouliot's minutes with Myers
(a lot more size, and definitely a bit tougher)

Replace Eriksson's minutes with Ferland

Replace Granlund's minutes with JT Miller

its not like Myers and Grandlund are super tough guys... but if u compare who's minutes they'll replace... and you can definitely see that we're getting more hits, more size and more effectiveness in the corners / on the wall

The left side of the defence has Hughes and Benn instead of Hutton and Pouliot, not exactly a big upgrade in physicality. The right side had Myers instead of Gudbranson which is a clear downgrade in toughness.
Overall the skill level should be hugger though.
The forwards are both tougher and better than last year

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I'm surprised that someone would argue against it, if you've played the game even at the rec level you would understand it. If you have watched and listened to the players in the NHL you would have seen and heard it.

Just because you were intimidated doesnt mean the guys who end up at the very top were.

 

[JuniorNelson]

Canucks have been soft for years. Trying to address it makes sense if you have stars that aren't particularily rugged. If these stars become intimidated, Canucks will fail. This has been amply demonstrated. How will the team play with the new additions? Hopefully, they will be better equipped to operate without being run every game. They have to try something!

 

[F A N]

When you don't have size and toughness, especially in your top 6, it's usually a problem. Just ask Flames fans.

Playing a "heavy" game by having guys who have some size and toughness doesn't mean being slow and lacking skill. Think Kesler helping us win the series against Nashville. That doesn't mean you take Kesler over Henrik. What you want is have Kesler and Henrik down the middle. Right now, we have Pettersson and Horvat down the middle, which gives the team that valuable different look.

You got to be careful and not just add size and toughness for the sake of adding size and toughness. Speed/quickness, hockey IQ, and skill are important. I do think it's good to have a balance.

 

[Marcel]

Just because you were intimidated doesnt mean the guys who end up at the very top were.

It doesn't matter whether I was intimidated or not, the point is that intimidation in a contact sport is a fact of life.

And speaking of intimidation, it doesn't have to be just about size and strength... it can be about how skilled a team is or how fast a team plays

What the General Manager of the Flames said in the comment I provided was that intimidation is an influencer. He has justified the deal because he feels that it will take away some of the abuse his star players, especially Gaudreau take.

If you don't agree, don't try to sway my opinion...go talk to the players and management

And if you can't get thru to them, go down to your local beer league and ask them if playing against bigger and stronger players who play with an edge can put their game on edge.

 

[valkynax]

When you don't have size and toughness, especially in your top 6, it's usually a problem. Just ask Flames fans.

Playing a "heavy" game by having guys who have some size and toughness doesn't mean being slow and lacking skill. Think Kesler helping us win the series against Nashville. That doesn't mean you take Kesler over Henrik. What you want is have Kesler and Henrik down the middle. Right now, we have Pettersson and Horvat down the middle, which gives the team that valuable different look.

You got to be careful and not just add size and toughness for the sake of adding size and toughness. Speed/quickness, hockey IQ, and skill are important. I do think it's good to have a balance.

Yes toughness is great when backed up by skills. If a player has nothing but toughness, you get someone like Tom Sestito.

The problem is, there're always those people who think toughness is a SUBSTITUTE for skills.

 

[F A N]

Yes toughness is great when backed up by skills. If a player has nothing but toughness, you get someone like Tom Sestito.

The problem is, there're always those people who think toughness is a SUBSTITUTE for skills.

I think it depends on the context. Sestito is actually a decent skater for his size and has pretty soft hands but I digress. I think a guy who can get in the forecheck and throw big hits can be a disruptive presence, especially in the playoffs. I think a championship contender can field a guy like Ryan Reaves. But it's not like we have a Ryan Reaves or Sestito here.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Apparently,..the Flames tried to acquire Reaves (according to Eric Francis),but it didnt work out...Now that they have acquired Lucic ,he seems of the opinion that the Flames have solved the problem...Only problem is that Lucic falls under that out dated Tom Sestito type enforcer.

Is it just me ...or is there a 'grit' arms race in the Pacific Division?

 

[DFAC]

Canucks have been soft for too long, glad Benning addressed the need.

We need to protect EP

 

[Get North]

Apparently,..the Flames tried to acquire Reaves (according to Eric Francis),but it didnt work out...Now that they have acquired Lucic ,he seems of the opinion that the Flames have solved the problem...Only problem is that Lucic falls under that out dated Tom Sestito type enforcer.

Is it just me ...or is there a 'grit' arms race in the Pacific Division?

It does feel like the Western GMs feel the need to have a couple known fighters in the organization. Ducks traded for Sieloff, Sharks signed Prout, Oilers have a bunch of bodies, Flames got themselves Lucic. All teams have had more than a couple tough guys on the roster since 2011 at least.

 

[Javaman]

I was responding to your claim doubting the team was in fact any harder to play against. That's where you jumped into this thread.

Not sure why you don't feel the need to to defend your own position or 'bear the responsibility'. Maybe try that first before asking others to prove something that is so obviously subjective.

No. That's not true. Hell, I even stipulated to the initial claims.

My first post in this thread (#11) simply pointed out that Benning has made this sort of statement in previous offseasons. Which he has . Things devolved from there.

Again, I didn't make a claim. Therefore I don't need to defend my non-claim

You made a claim. Therefore you bear the "burden of proof". That's how it works. Elsewise, nobody should give the least bit of credence to anything you have to say.