Post-Game Talk: #3| Montreal at FLYERS |Sat., Oct. 11, 2014|

[Tripod]

Not really.

When together they had a 58.6% GF% at 5v5 in over 300mins together last year. (ie 58.6% of goals when they were on ice were for the Flyers) Which is great for a 3rd pairing.

Schenn was +6 in the regular season when Gus played. -6 when he did not.

They played well together.

Thank you.

For a 3rd pairing, they were good. I know that Mez had to play in order to trade him, but certainly Berube does not have the same rules or leash fir all players. I understand having a longer leash on a Giroux, etc....but Gus was NEVER given any at all. And yes, he is still a 3rd pairing guy. But so what. We lost him for this year...maybe longer...for nothing.

The best thing that can happen is to try and tear the D down and rebuild it....which with the kids seems likely. But then we still have MacD forever. Not to mention Vinny and Umberger up front.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Not really.

When together they had a 58.6% GF% at 5v5 in over 300mins together last year. (ie 58.6% of goals when they were on ice were for the Flyers) Which is great for a 3rd pairing.

Schenn was +6 in the regular season when Gus played. -6 when he did not.

They played well together.

I think Gus got a raw deal & I appreciate the stats, but we're talking about a guy who failed to crack an awful D as a regular & is now in Europe, plus Luke who I think is consistently near the NHL basement in goals against %. "Great" is not a term I'd use to describe the pairing. Is their time together even a statistically significant sample?

 

[GKJ]

Voracek only had 16 minutes in a game where 3 of his were on the power play.


Inexcusable. Still.

I think Gus got a raw deal & I appreciate the stats, but we're talking about a guy who failed to crack an awful D as a regular & is now in Europe, plus Luke who I think is consistently near the NHL basement in goals against %. "Great" is not a term I'd use to describe the pairing. Is their time together even a statistically significant sample?

I think his point is that Gus would have made it less awful. He may have been no worse than the 4th best defenseman on the team, and was playing well with a partner who, by definition, sucks.

 

[Danko]

3 Games in, im not about to start throwing my hoodie on the ice or wearing a paper bag. Has it been ugly, yeah.

Simmonds is gonna have a monster year.

Vinny looks a lot more comfortable on the ice and a lot faster.

Really like Bellamare, he has been consistent every shift.

If it wasnt for the pregame bit on Umberger, i wouldn't notice him on the team. If Gostisbehere is called up we would have two Ghosts on the team.

Luke Schenn looks awful, those trade rumors probably didn't help his confidence..

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I think his point is that Gus would have made it less awful. He may have been no worse than the 4th best defenseman on the team, and was playing well with a partner who, by definition, sucks.

Like I said, I think Gus got a raw deal. I just believe calling Gus/Luke a great 3rd pairing is going overboard.

 

[Curufinwe]

Also about Gus, he and Schenn were a great 3rd pairing.

As for Hextall, I want to believe. But so far he traded a 1st line LW for a 3rd line LW at best...all to save 2 years. In the summer he said CLB approached him about Hartnell. And yet the best he could get was a guy that was in rumours about being bought out??

I am fine with no short term fixes, but he has yet to do anything that has positively helped our on ice team.

Is moaning about Umberger going to be your new thing despite the fact the PP is scoring just fine without Hartnell and the first line is just as good if not better with Raffl on it?

Umberger has looked solid on the Vinny line and the Couturier line, and has done good work on the PK. The team would not be better if Hartnell was still around to fall down, take dumb penalties, and get shown up defensively like he did against Buffalo.

 

[Prongo]

I'm not sure why people are not sold on Hextall.... He really hasn't had anytime to create a roster of his own or even sign a free agent or two that he seemed highly interested in. He has no cap room and a roster full of slow(Vinny, Grossmann, Schenn) unskilled players that he is responsible for turning over now. Hartnell was his first, seems like conditioning and on ice discipline were leading candidates for is departure. Umberger, while not the greatest player can be an effective third liner and brings a PKer on the team as well.

There were already rumors saying Hextall is willing to listen on any defender including Coburn but it was mostly Schenn and Grossmann.

Hextall needs time, I forget where I heard it from but realistically if you want to analyze a GM's job, he needs at least five years. generally they get 3 or so, I believe Burke said this too if I am not mistaken though. I just think we need to get through the first season to make any judgments on what Hextall is doing with this team. He has a lot of work cut out for him with those big numbers on the books. Hopefully Vinny isn't hurt and continues to play at a pace where he keeps adding points. Points are always sexy to GM's when looking for offense.

 

[GKJ]

I'm not sure why people are not sold on Hextall.... He really hasn't had anytime to create a roster of his own or even sign a free agent or two that he seemed highly interested in. He has no cap room and a roster full of slow(Vinny, Grossmann, Schenn) unskilled players that he is responsible for turning over now. Hartnell was his first, seems like conditioning and on ice discipline were leading candidates for is departure. Umberger, while not the greatest player can be an effective third liner and brings a PKer on the team as well.

There were already rumors saying Hextall is willing to listen on any defender including Coburn but it was mostly Schenn and Grossmann.

Hextall needs time, I forget where I heard it from but realistically if you want to analyze a GM's job, he needs at least five years. generally they get 3 or so, I believe Burke said this too if I am not mistaken though. I just think we need to get through the first season to make any judgments on what Hextall is doing with this team. He has a lot of work cut out for him with those big numbers on the books. Hopefully Vinny isn't hurt and continues to play at a pace where he keeps adding points. Points are always sexy to GM's when looking for offense.

There was also a tremendous amount of risk to Hartnell's contract. They couldn't afford him going off a cliff.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

I'm not sure why people are not sold on Hextall.... He really hasn't had anytime to create a roster of his own or even sign a free agent or two that he seemed highly interested in. He has no cap room and a roster full of slow(Vinny, Grossmann, Schenn) unskilled players that he is responsible for turning over now. Hartnell was his first, seems like conditioning and on ice discipline were leading candidates for is departure. Umberger, while not the greatest player can be an effective third liner and brings a PKer on the team as well.

There were already rumors saying Hextall is willing to listen on any defender including Coburn but it was mostly Schenn and Grossmann.

Hextall needs time, I forget where I heard it from but realistically if you want to analyze a GM's job, he needs at least five years. generally they get 3 or so, I believe Burke said this too if I am not mistaken though. I just think we need to get through the first season to make any judgments on what Hextall is doing with this team. He has a lot of work cut out for him with those big numbers on the books. Hopefully Vinny isn't hurt and continues to play at a pace where he keeps adding points. Points are always sexy to GM's when looking for offense.

I'm not sold because talk is cheap. I'm not saying he won't do a good job, I'm optimistic, but he has to prove it first

 

[Rebels57]

It's 3 games, folks. It was our 3rd game in 4 nights to start the season. I wonder if that had something to do with the 3rd period collapse? The schedule makers ****ed us brutally to start this season.

There were some positives to take away from this game. For starters, lead blown or not, we got our first point of the season against one of last years best Eastern Conference teams. If you polled the board before the start of the game, most of us would have been happy with 1 point.

Emery was very sharp, from the beginning of the game until the end of the shootout. He gave us every chance to win last night. That's a good sign because most people felt that Emery as back-up would be one of our weaknesses. I still don't understand Berubes decision to play Mason back-to-back to start the season and then go to Mason in Game 3 against a better Montreal team, but oh well. Hopefully Razor keeps it up.

Wayne Simmonds is becoming arguably the best power-forward in the NHL. Last year he already made a case for it being the only player in the league with 60 points and 100 PIMs, but he looks even better this year. 35 + is not outside the realm of possibility. This will make life easier on Giroux and Voracek.

Couturier showed more confidence offensively, particularly on the powerplay where he was poised and patient with the puck for the most part. His drive to the net where he hit the cross bar (which would have given us a 4-0 lead and most likely, 2 points) was a play we didn't see from him much last year.

Our defense, for all of its faults and running around in their zone, blocked a ton of shots and competed hard. They just aren't very good right now. Hopefully things turn around when Coburn comes back.

Raffl looked much better in Game 3 then the first 2 games and his straight-away speed is a nice compliment to the line. Now if they would stop making that one extra pass at ES they will be deadly.

Our 4th line is easily our best since 2010. They are going to be fun to watch this year and are going to bust through with some goals really soon.

There were a lot of negatives, from the Schenn brothers, to Lecavalier, to Grossmann, but i'm not going to sit here and make the same mistake I made last year and give up on their entire season after 3 games.

 

[Rebels57]

There are absolutely no reasons to question Hextall right now. This is Holmgrens roster. Hextall has made 2 moves. His 2014 draft was lauded as a very good one but guys like Button who know prospects more than any of us could ever dream. He traded Hartnell for future cap flexibility and because we were the most penalized team in the league, and then he signed Bellemare..which looks like a nice move so far.

 

[Rebels57]

Gus definetly did get a raw deal. Another in a long line of botched decisions by Holmgren along with Laviolette/Berube.

 

[FLYERSG]

Why the **** did Berube play vinny over voracek in ot? Especially since he was apparently injured? If he was completely healthy he still shouldn't have seen the ice.

 

[Rebels57]

Why the **** did Berube play vinny over voracek in ot? Especially since he was apparently injured? If he was completely healthy he still shouldn't have seen the ice.

Because he's a moron.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

If we are willing to dump Hartnell for long term implications, then why couldn't the same be done with Grossman to make a spot for Gus?

probably points back to Berube again. Not sure Berube liked Hartnell. He definitely likes Grossmann and thinks he is a good player. That is why he is out there more than he should be.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Eh. The team isn't as bad as they are. We know that. But, they are worse than last season having lost Kimmo and Coburn. I haven't checked the Coburn thread in a while, but if he's out long term I struggle to see us making the playoffs barring a vezina-worthy performance from Mason.

I continue to lose faith in Berube. Yes, he did some good last year. But a lot of his decisions make it harder for the team to win at times and that's unacceptable.

Its only three games but I'm about ready to close the book on Luke. He has a make or break year this season as far as I'm concerned, and right not he's leaning towards "break." I'm just tired in general of people named Schenn being disappointing.

 

[KrazyKat]

Raffl/Giroux/Voracek
Schenn/Lecavalier/Simmonds
Akeson/Couturier/Read
Rinaldo/Bellemare/Umberger

Gostisbehere Coburn
Streit MacDonald
Del Zotto Schenn

Mason
Emery



Next game please!

 

[Appleyard]

Raffl/Giroux/Voracek
Schenn/Lecavalier/Simmonds
Akeson/Couturier/Read
Rinaldo/Bellemare/Umberger

Gostisbehere Coburn
Streit MacDonald
Del Zotto Schenn

Mason
Emery



Next game please!

Streit would be on the right side of that pairing... AMac does not play the right.

Also, Akeson does not play LW. And spliting up the 4th that has looked good would be a bad idea IMO. And if anyone should get promoted it is Bellemare.

That 2nd line should be skinned and burnt alive as well. I never want to see it again.

 

[Solefool]

We've played two likely Eastern Cup Contenders in Boston and Montreal and a probable playoff team in New Jersey. They were all 1 goal games (sans the empty netter). It's not as bad as people are making it out to be. We're an above average but not good team. They're playing at their expected level, IMO.

 

[KrazyKat]

Or even this

Simmonds/Giroux/Voracek
Schenn/Lecavalier/Raffl
Akeson/Couts/Read
Rinaldo/Bellemare/Umberger

Streit Coburn
Schenn Gostisbehere
Grossmann MacD

 

[Garbage Goal]

We've played two likely Eastern Cup Contenders in Boston and Montreal and a probable playoff team in New Jersey. They were all 1 goal games (sans the empty netter). It's not as bad as people are making it out to be. We're an above average but not good team. They're playing at their expected level, IMO.

0-2-1 and 10 GA in three games, 11 if you include the shootout. Pretty terrible expectations.

 

[blinds]

It's 3 games, folks. It was our 3rd game in 4 nights to start the season. I wonder if that had something to do with the 3rd period collapse? The schedule makers ****ed us brutally to start this season.

That's no excuse for losing 3 games, and Montreal had the exact same schedule.

 

[Solefool]

0-2-1 and 10 GA in three games, 11 if you include the shootout. Pretty terrible expectations.

An already bad defense without their two most relied on defenders gives up 8 goals in 2 games. Sounds pretty par for the course and expected to me.

 

[Garbage Goal]

An already bad defense without their two most relied on defenders gives up 8 goals in 2 games. Sounds pretty par for the course and expected to me.

I don't disagree. Except you used the words "above average" and spoke as if these are good expectations.

 

[Solefool]

I don't disagree. Except you used the words "above average" and spoke as if these are good expectations.

I didn't say whether or not they are good expectations. I think they are realistic expectations. We're not a good team. We're not a bad team. That's reality. We're an above average team that can get hot when the offense is humming and the goalie gets in rhythm.

I think expecting more than that from this team is unreasonable and prioritizing optimism over logic.