Prospect Info: //#3// HFStars 2014 Top-20

[Bluesoma]

I'm really having a hard time making a call. Piqued and Starry's points about Dickinson to make a ton of sense.

I don't agree that Klingberg's 19 year old season just disappears though. Campbell's OHL years don't. It's a part of the process and good on them from overcoming those issues. I don't see how a solid 21 year season makes it irrelevant, and that a solid 19 year old season for Bystrom isn't a reasonable indication he's on an even better path for success. He's highly skilled as well.

I don't think Oleksiak is down either. I think he just is proving to be who he is which is more of a Top 4 complimentary role like Bouwmeester right now (which is still extremely valuable) than say a top pair Chara. Of course Chara wasn't Chara until he was 25 or 26 so that even seems pretty silly to say. He still has that upside hopefully he just hasn't show it yet.

By the time Chara was Oleksiak's age ... FWIW ... he'd played 25 NHL games (1 assist) and 48 AHL games (13 points). Oleksiak has 2 assists in 23 NHL games and 56 points in 128 AHL games.

It's still Dickinson or Shore for me though.

Have I mentioned how I'm a little sad Shore didn't go pro and come to Texas?

 

[BigG44]

Have I mentioned how I'm a little sad Shore didn't go pro and come to Texas?

I get it, but I'd only be disappointed if it happens again next year. I'd also be a bit concerned about him potentially deciding to test free agency like Kevin Hayes.

We'll cross that bridge if it ever comes to that, but he could be intimidated by Seguin, a potentially re-signed Spezza, Eakin, Dickinson, and Faksa. That depth at center doesn't leave much room for everyone. Even on wing you already have Benn, Nichushkin, and Ritchie seem like long term locks on wing.

Personally I don't think it'll be an issue, but just pointing out that's the potential risk of him playing his senior year ... when it's over ... not much longer of wait for him to test the market and find an easier path to the NHL.

 

[john skull]

Really glad to see Shore getting some love. I think he is going to eventually be a sort of straw that stirs the green drink of victory that will be the Stars. Ala Morrow of the 08 vintage. As I said last year in this poll Shore is hockey sense. He's also a wrecking ball, and great defensively. I am really excited to see Dickinson and him maybe play together one day. Two great, two-way, skilled possession players on the second line, yes plz. Shore gets the nod here for his future "captain material"-ness.

 

[john skull]

I get it, but I'd only be disappointed if it happens again next year. I'd also be a bit concerned about him potentially deciding to test free agency like Kevin Hayes.

We'll cross that bridge if it ever comes to that, but he could be intimidated by Seguin, a potentially re-signed Spezza, Eakin, Dickinson, and Faksa. That depth at center doesn't leave much room for everyone. Even on wing you already have Benn, Nichushkin, and Ritchie seem like long term locks on wing.

Personally I don't think it'll be an issue, but just pointing out that's the potential risk of him playing his senior year ... when it's over ... not much longer of wait for him to test the market and find an easier path to the NHL.

Hmm, interesting ideas here, terrifying but interesting. I hope they lock him up asap.

Hard to see him going back for his senior year. In his interviews he says a lot about this year, having his eye on the prize and the group they have right now.

I mean, he'll probably need a year in CP. And they do seem to be putting up as many road blocks as possible to force the kids to break through, but I really think this kid is the real d...going to be something special as the stars second line center. I think JD is more suited to the wing(even though he moved back to center this year).

 

[BigG44]

Interesting you should mention Dickinson on the wing. In his interview at prospect camp this year, he said he prefers center. Said it suits his skill set better. Lecavalier said the same thing to Phili media.

I'm sure he could play wing, but if he's more comfortable it would be beneficial to keep him there. Eventually though ... someone has to go to wing.

Dickinson though to me seems better at center for the same reason Seguin has said he prefers center. It allows them to use their speed more and carry the puck. That's two of Dickinson's best assets according to many.

I could see Shore developing into a Whitney-type play making winger .... I guess Hemsky-type would be appropriate. They're not exactly common, but when you have centers that can shoot the puck like Seguin they could be pretty valuable.

 

[glovesave_35]

I don't agree that Klingberg's 19 year old season just disappears though. Campbell's OHL years don't. It's a part of the process and good on them from overcoming those issues. I don't see how a solid 21 year season makes it irrelevant, and that a solid 19 year old season for Bystrom isn't a reasonable indication he's on an even better path for success. He's highly skilled as well.

If Bystrom's 19 year old season were roughly equal to Klingberg's 21 year old season this would be an obvious win for the former. I just don't see the point in bringing up Klingberg's failed season as a 19 year old when he obviously matured a lot since then and has righted the ship.

If you look at it as a trajectory Bystrom is on a solid upward slope. Klingberg's started out upward, dipped big time, then rockets up really high at present day. I really like Bystrom's potential, I just can't see a good argument to be made for considering him a better prospect in July of 2014 than Klingberg. Then again, you seem to have made the point earlier that your prospect ranking is very heavily slanted toward potential with little regard to NHL readiness. Personally, I consider both quite a bit.

 

[BigG44]

If Bystrom's 19 year old season were roughly equal to Klingberg's 21 year old season this would be an obvious win for the former. I just don't see the point in bringing up Klingberg's failed season as a 19 year old when he obviously matured a lot since then and has righted the ship.

If you look at it as a trajectory Bystrom is on a solid upward slope. Klingberg's started out upward, dipped big time, then rockets up really high at present day. I really like Bystrom's potential, I just can't see a good argument to be made for considering him a better prospect in July of 2014 than Klingberg. Then again, you seem to have made the point earlier that your prospect ranking is very heavily slanted toward potential with little regard to NHL readiness. Personally, I consider both quite a bit.

Well I never said he was better. I just and more excited about Bystrom. Like you said I consider them pretty close, but I'm very surprised about everyone just ignoring information about a player.

Personally it seems like ... the group likes Klingberg ... ignore the bad. Most of the group his lukewarm on Campbell ... we can include it.

I'm a big Klingberg fan, but it's relevant to the discussion, especially considering how rare it is for a U-20 success in Sweden. I'm not docking Klingberg. I'm pointing out Bystrom is doing something very few other 19 year old prospects have done, including Klingberg. If Klingberg is as good as he is now (which seems very good), the upside for Brystrom seem even better ... which makes him more exciting to me right now.

I'm not arguing that John's not closer ... but I've always thought proximity to the NHL was a minor consideration anyway. At the end of the day they all get their or they don't, and what they become is all that matters. Being born a year or two before someone doesn't really make you a better player ... it just makes you older.

Just because Bystrom hasn't had the opportunity to mature even more and Klingberg has seems like a weird thing to hold against a player.

 

[glovesave_35]

Well I never said he was better. I just and more excited about Bystrom. Like you said I consider them pretty close, but I'm very surprised about everyone just ignoring information about a player.

Personally it seems like ... the group likes Klingberg ... ignore the bad. Most of the group his lukewarm on Campbell ... we can include it.

I'm a big Klingberg fan, but it's relevant to the discussion, especially considering how rare it is for a U-20 success in Sweden. I'm not docking Klingberg. I'm pointing out Bystrom is doing something very few other 19 year old prospects have done, including Klingberg. I Klingberg is as good as he is now (which seems very good), the upside for Brystrom seem even better ... which makes him more exciting to me right now.

I'm not arguing that John's not closer ... but I've always thought proximity to the NHL was a minor consideration anyway. At the end of the day they all get their or they don't, and what they become is all that matters. Being born a year or two before someone doesn't really make you a better player ... it just makes you older.

Just because Bystrom hasn't had the opportunity to mature even more and Klingberg has seems like a weird thing to hold against a player.

I'm not saying that him being older makes him better, I'm saying that I'm more excited about Klingberg because he was one of the best defensemen in Sweden as a 21 year old. It's not that he's older it's that he's proven more. Obviously, Bystrom is younger and hasn't had the time and opportunity to prove the same things as Klingberg, but I can't knock a player for being older either. If I'm comparing two prospects of relatively similar upside I will almost always go with the one who has proven more and is closer to proving himself an NHL player.

I notice you voted for Jack as our #2 prospect (as did I). If we are going to compare Campbell/Desrosiers using the same criteria as Klingberg/Bystrom a case could be made for Desrosiers over Campbell given each player's post-draft season.

 

[BigG44]

Voting for Shore would be a waste at this time, but I know I think Dickinson belongs ahead of Oleksiak and Klingberg so I went that way.

I'll vote Shore next.

 

[Lucy963]

Voting for Shore would be a waste at this time, but I know I think Dickinson belongs ahead of Oleksiak and Klingberg so I went that way.

I'll vote Shore next.

I voted shore, I knew he wouldn't get enough for 3rd place.. Still wouldn't consider it a waste. It's nice to think we have 5-6 players considered in our top 3 that won't make the cut.

 

[Zrhutch]

Went with Dicky here. Going with Oleksiak, Shore, and Klingberg/Honka next.

EDIT: Also have to slide Nemeth in there somewhere, but in my head I don't even consider him a prospect. He looked like a seasoned vet in his time up here

 

[Johno]

Had to go Dickinson here since he is second on my list (JC 3rd). Very much like the whole package he brings and he has just done so much in a year. Very excited about his future and progress (Thanks, Jagr!).

Top Five List
1.Ritchie
2.Dickinson
3.Campbell
4.Oleksiak
5.Klingberg
Then onto Honka, Shore, Nemeth...

 

[john skull]

Interesting you should mention Dickinson on the wing. In his interview at prospect camp this year, he said he prefers center. Said it suits his skill set better. Lecavalier said the same thing to Phili media.

I'm sure he could play wing, but if he's more comfortable it would be beneficial to keep him there. Eventually though ... someone has to go to wing.

Dickinson though to me seems better at center for the same reason Seguin has said he prefers center. It allows them to use their speed more and carry the puck. That's two of Dickinson's best assets according to many.

I could see Shore developing into a Whitney-type play making winger .... I guess Hemsky-type would be appropriate. They're not exactly common, but when you have centers that can shoot the puck like Seguin they could be pretty valuable.

Yeah, Bobby Hull always said Mo would be better suited on the wing. Never worked out when they tried him there. Hard to say who's skills translate sometimes. I just see Shore get first line center as a freshman from a notoriously hard coach and really control the game.

I haven't seen Dickinson as much. But being a bit lighter, getting pushed off the puck easier(as far as I can tell), playing behind(plays second line on Guelph) a guy a year younger, makes me think he is not quite the dominate center he needs to be in order to make it at the next few levels. I know he gets tasked with shutting down other teams top guys, and is turning into somewhat of a setup wizard himself, but I guess its just my impression that he would make a better left winger than a centerman.

Full disclosure I am stupid high on Shore and bias toward Shore. And Dickinson really needs to add about 30lbs.

 

[john skull]

I haven't seen Dickinson as much. But being a bit lighter, getting pushed off the puck easier(as far as I can tell)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTvhh9ppEZI
I rest my case.

 

[Starry Knight]

When you say playing behind Fabbri, you mean playing on their first line with Kosmachuck and McGinn, then sure.

 

[john skull]

When you say playing behind Fabbri, you mean playing on their first line with Kosmachuck and McGinn, then sure.

At what point in the season did it change?

 

[Starry Knight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTvhh9ppEZI
I rest my case.

How does that illustrate that he is easy to push off the puck? He only fell when he went to shoot the puck

At what point in the season did it change?

He was with those two for every game that I recall

 

[john skull]

How does that illustrate that he is easy to push off the puck? He only fell when he went to shoot the puck



He was with those two for every game that I recall

It was a joke, cause he obviously couldn't be knocked off the puck by four guys. I mean, he still really needs to add weight, and he's a great prospect, and a very good coach in Scott Walker moved him to center after playing the first few games at wing so he clearly has a skill set which allows him to excel in the middle of the ice; I just think he will ultimately be better utilized on the wing, more so, and better so than Shore.

I guess when Fabbri got hurt they started to really change up who played with whom. This is an interview I saw a while back where I remember him saying he was playing second line and really dishing and setting up guys well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrakIrMxpDM

 

[glovesave_35]

Not sure who it was, either Farkas or Glu (who I think is a scout in some capacity?) said sometime last year that they viewed Shore as more of a winger at the next level.

I haven't actually watched either play hardly at all but both have gotten high praise for playing a complete two-way game at center. Both can probably play center in the NHL one day, though I'm really unconcerned with either being able to contribute from the wing. The NHL is littered with wingers who were centers in junior. Honestly, if either guy can't play wing for a few years in the NHL then they're probably just not that good.

 

[Johno]

Here's what THN thinks about the matter:

1. Jamie Oleksiak, D
2. Brett Ritchie, RW
3. Julius Honka, D
4. Jack Campbell, G
5. Brett Pollock, LW
6. Radek Faksa, C
7. Devin Shore, C
8. John Klingberg, D
9. Jason Dickinson, C
10. Patrik Nemeth, D

 

[glovesave_35]

Here's what THN thinks about the matter:

1. Jamie Oleksiak, D
2. Brett Ritchie, RW
3. Julius Honka, D
4. Jack Campbell, G
5. Brett Pollock, LW
6. Radek Faksa, C
7. Devin Shore, C
8. John Klingberg, D
9. Jason Dickinson, C
10. Patrik Nemeth, D

Pollock over any of those guys is just wrong.

 

[piqued]

I don't think I've ever seen a THN list that hasn't struck me as bizarre.

What do we think, close now and start a tiebreaker or let it play out?

 

[Johno]

Wouldn't be too far off if Dickinson and Pollock were switched.

Probably everyone that is going to vote, has voted (if previous poll attendances are any indication)

 

[Satan]

I don't think I've ever seen a THN list that hasn't struck me as bizarre.

What do we think, close now and start a tiebreaker or let it play out?

Toss up the tiebreaker brother

 

[piqued]

Okay.