GDT: 3/20/13 - 7:00PM EDT - Tampa Bay @ Toronto
- Thread starter TheDaysOf 04
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zeykshade
Registered User
Steve Yzerman
A New Season Begins
Exactly, Cooper loses almost all of his top players and yet I see them leading in SOG and winning games. On the other hand, Boucher keeps getting additions to bolster the team and he can't win?
zeykshade
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2009
- 10,209
- 6,269
We have no one to match Orr/McLaren anyways. I wish for once that we would add size to this team, I don't care if it's Evgeni ****ing Artyukhin, it's time to toughen up.
zeykshade
Registered User
dbieon12
Vinik-Brisebois-Cooper
- Jul 22, 2010
- 5,505
- 1,018
LOL players. So bad.
We played better 5 on 5 than we did 5 on 4 throughout this game.
Coopers Gum
Extend Andrej Sustr
Pontius Palat
Lurker
Did anyone else catch the Leaf centre (Kadri I think) all over the faceoff dot on the last draw, yet Johnson the one taken off? These refs...
Coopers Gum
Extend Andrej Sustr
ThunderRoad
Registered User
Exactly, Cooper loses almost all of his top players and yet I see them leading in SOG and winning games. On the other hand, Boucher keeps getting additions to bolster the team and he can't win?
What Cooper has done in the past couple of years is certainly impressive. Would love to see what effect Cooper's leadership could have on the mindset of this Lightning team - not like Tampa doesn't have a healthy portion of his guys already on it.
St Louis and Stamkos just might benefit from it as well - they need a spark to get going again. And maybe, just maybe, we could see an ounce of physicality from the Tampa bench.
Current coaching staff has zero answers - different opponent, same results. Not only does the team lose regularly, but they look ineffective and lackluster while doing it.
But Guy Boucher took this Tampa team far in the playoffs before. He's a good coach but the personnel he is provided are what's keeping you guys from any success. You guys, IMO, lack in two key positions that can derail any team - D and G.
Take Detroit for example. They have unreal talent up front but their D and G have question marks, despite Howard being considered a number 1 G. The D is inconsistent and that is what keeps hurting the Wings, and that is why they've been inconsistent throughout the year.
Take Detroit for example. They have unreal talent up front but their D and G have question marks, despite Howard being considered a number 1 G. The D is inconsistent and that is what keeps hurting the Wings, and that is why they've been inconsistent throughout the year.
Your coach sucks. I was concerned cause I knew lindback was playing great. He plays garon who sucks vs the leafs historically, puts in a cold lindback who gets hurt, I don't get it.
Coopers Gum
Extend Andrej Sustr
LTIR Trickery
Plz stop pucks
What is the difference between AHL Boucher and AHL Cooper? Both a gamble imo.
ThunderRoad
Registered User
This Lightning team should be a lot better than it currently is - a big factor in that seems to be the leadership coming from Boucher and his staff. Think it is an issue with the game planning and the inability to adapt and use the players he has effectively. Yes, there are always roster positions that could be upgraded but IMO, that is just masking deeper set issues not roster related.
Yes, we went deep in the playoffs his first season, but that success has not been replicated the past 2 seasons. And how much of that first year was due to Roloson's play, or to Fleming's input, or just other teams underestimating the Lightning as an easy opponent on the schedule. Guy may be a good coach, just think Cooper might be great. And if Cooper ends up in the same quagmire as Boucher then that will be disappointing but in reality nothing more than a sideways move. Low risk, possible great reward.
If Tampa can somehow convince Cooper to stay within the organization without bringing him up as head coach of the Lightning (throw money at him and whatever else), then that is one thing - perhaps give give Guy another chance with hand-picked assistants. Yet, if it comes down to losing Cooper after this year and keeping Boucher, I hope they don't let Jon walk out the door.
ThunderRoad
Registered User
Sure it's a gamble - but could be a great one, and don't think it would lead to a worse on-ice product. AHL Cooper has been pretty darn impressive - a number of the guys he has coached in Norfolk/Syracuse have shown the ability to transition to the NHL game (he has a proven track record in developing our young guys who are the future of this team). Do you really think our AHL roster justifies the position in the standings we have seen the past 2 seasons (so far at least this year)? Cooper just seems to bring a mindset of a winning culture.
IMO Cooper has a more impressive overall track record than Boucher - that includes when Boucher was first offered the job behind the Lightning bench and now into his third season there.
Not saying Cooper isn't a risk - just some have a lower risk index in the register. And if we are building through our drafted players as per Yzerman that makes it even more appealing.
Goaltending can make any coach stand out. You had a very calming presence in net with Roloson but not many teams have that luxury. You have a team that plays hard. The Lightning forwards are talented and are fast enough to go end to end with any team, but if D is not great then all the efforts of your forwards will go in vein, and their talents will be overshadowed by losses.
I think Guy was successful in his first season because you played a tight, defensive style where you limited opposition's chances, and because of the sheer talent of your forwards in Stammer, Vinny, Malone and St. Louis, you were more often than not able to convert on opposition's mistakes. Plus, when you have talent like you did up front your PP will reflect that. I'm just speculating here but I'm sure your special teams were well above average in Boucher's first season.
If Boucher has changed the system for whatever reason. The only problem is that it just wont work unless Yzerman gives him quality NHL D-men. Carle, Brewer, Salo aren't going to cut it.
I know you guys drafted Slater Koekkoek but he won't be ready for a while.
I think Guy was successful in his first season because you played a tight, defensive style where you limited opposition's chances, and because of the sheer talent of your forwards in Stammer, Vinny, Malone and St. Louis, you were more often than not able to convert on opposition's mistakes. Plus, when you have talent like you did up front your PP will reflect that. I'm just speculating here but I'm sure your special teams were well above average in Boucher's first season.
If Boucher has changed the system for whatever reason. The only problem is that it just wont work unless Yzerman gives him quality NHL D-men. Carle, Brewer, Salo aren't going to cut it.
I know you guys drafted Slater Koekkoek but he won't be ready for a while.
The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
- Jun 22, 2011
- 48,776
- 29,312
Ummm... our D corps isn't good, certainly, but it's also not bad.
Here's the thing. You see our best players night in, night out, are the guys that come up from Syracuse. They tend to play a simple, north-south type of game that relies on hard work and getting pucks on net. The guys that are in Boucher's "system" are not aggressive, they play on their heels, and they have trouble entering and exiting zones.
And Cooper, while not the most tenured of coaches, has been down there for awhile and had repeated success. Boucher seems to do well in his first year wherever he goes, but then after... Well, we only have an after for the NHL. His system was new and possibly threw people for a loop, but now it's an old hat and shown to be ineffective. Also, our run a few years back is largely, ****, entirely due to hot goaltending. Roli stood on his head and carried the team.
The fact is, we don't generate a lot of chances, our zone coverage is awful, our exits are bad, our zone entries are bad, our PP is bad, our zone presence is bad, our forecheck is bad. This isn't a talent issue in Tampa. While we're not the Bruins on the back end, there IS decent talent back there. Lindback isn't Hasek, but he's okay, and he's hung out to dry a lot. The problem lies with the coaching staff. Boucher tinkers too ****ing much with the lines, shows unexplainable favoritism to certain players, and keeps the players on a leash when it comes to sticking up for themselves. **** him, he's got to go.
Here's the thing. You see our best players night in, night out, are the guys that come up from Syracuse. They tend to play a simple, north-south type of game that relies on hard work and getting pucks on net. The guys that are in Boucher's "system" are not aggressive, they play on their heels, and they have trouble entering and exiting zones.
And Cooper, while not the most tenured of coaches, has been down there for awhile and had repeated success. Boucher seems to do well in his first year wherever he goes, but then after... Well, we only have an after for the NHL. His system was new and possibly threw people for a loop, but now it's an old hat and shown to be ineffective. Also, our run a few years back is largely, ****, entirely due to hot goaltending. Roli stood on his head and carried the team.
The fact is, we don't generate a lot of chances, our zone coverage is awful, our exits are bad, our zone entries are bad, our PP is bad, our zone presence is bad, our forecheck is bad. This isn't a talent issue in Tampa. While we're not the Bruins on the back end, there IS decent talent back there. Lindback isn't Hasek, but he's okay, and he's hung out to dry a lot. The problem lies with the coaching staff. Boucher tinkers too ****ing much with the lines, shows unexplainable favoritism to certain players, and keeps the players on a leash when it comes to sticking up for themselves. **** him, he's got to go.
The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
- Jun 22, 2011
- 48,776
- 29,312
Also, speaking of toughness...
How ****ing pathetic is it when the one guy out there who's showing some fire is 5'8"? Conacher is out there in front of the net, jostling with Phaneuf and whoever else is out there. That's the fire we see from the kids coming up, and that's the fire that's lacking from the established players.
How ****ing pathetic is it when the one guy out there who's showing some fire is 5'8"? Conacher is out there in front of the net, jostling with Phaneuf and whoever else is out there. That's the fire we see from the kids coming up, and that's the fire that's lacking from the established players.
Stammertime91
TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
Its because this team lacks heart, you can go crazy and hit like a car out of control, but, you have to have heart. This team lacks that. We have the smallest line in the league out there and not ONE damn defenseman, I dont care about getting a penalty or the draw going out of the zone for jumping in, you get your ass in their and help your brothers. This isnt a cowards sport, yet they've made our team look like that. Year after year, we've never been since 2004...a team that can just physically wear the other team out. The last game against Philadelphia, we played outstanding in regards to physicality, but still nobody is there to protect the younger/smaller guys. They know when to pick their battles, but the opponent wont target them if they know they have hell to pay. But thats not the case.
I honestly, like I said a couple months ago, would LOVE to see Artyukhin back on this team. I'd LOVE to see Ryan Clowe, Colton Orr, Cal Clutterbuck, etc, somebody that can throw the body and WIN a fight (or at least throw more than 3 punches without getting dazed in every fight-Crombeen, thats you.). Its sickening. Look at the winning formula and the grit on the recent Cup winners. This team doesnt have that, not at all.
Right now, this is the lineup I wouldnt mind seeing. Plug the holes with whoever, this is who deserves to play on this team based on HEART:
?-Stamkos-MSL-no matter how bad marty has played at time, he has heart, dont let one season clog your memory banks
Tyrell-Johnson-Conacher
Killorn-Thompson-Pyatt/Palat
Hedman/Salo
Aulie/Gudas
I would not lose a wink of sleep if these listed were gone;
Malone, Purcell, Vinny(too many injuries, I'd rather trade him in hopes of something decent in return, great person but this is a business, time to break ties, he'll always be remembered for what he's done and I'll always keep the memories of him as a TB player, but he needs to move on), Carle, Brewer.
Whether these players are just emotionally/physically/etc drained, I have no idea, or its because of Guy. I havent got a clue, nobody but them really knows, but they arent showing motivation and that does stem from the captain of your ship, the coach of a team, and thats Boucher's fault. But its not entirely his fault with the way players make some decisions. Some decision making going on by very experienced players/cup winners, is pretty embarassing TO SAY THE LEAST! His "system" is hurting our players at this point, its a detriment to how they play.
You have to somewhere in your own analysis think of this;
You have an AHL farm team.
You have the NHL team.
You have Cooper.
You have Boucher.
One is winning.
One is losing.
One is dominating games losing their best players.
One is gaining more offensive and defensive depth, while losing 2 players to be fair, and is STILL losing.
One has a damn good record.
One has one successful year in each level, then spirals downhill.
Your call on what should be done, I know what I'd do.
I honestly, like I said a couple months ago, would LOVE to see Artyukhin back on this team. I'd LOVE to see Ryan Clowe, Colton Orr, Cal Clutterbuck, etc, somebody that can throw the body and WIN a fight (or at least throw more than 3 punches without getting dazed in every fight-Crombeen, thats you.). Its sickening. Look at the winning formula and the grit on the recent Cup winners. This team doesnt have that, not at all.
Right now, this is the lineup I wouldnt mind seeing. Plug the holes with whoever, this is who deserves to play on this team based on HEART:
?-Stamkos-MSL-no matter how bad marty has played at time, he has heart, dont let one season clog your memory banks
Tyrell-Johnson-Conacher
Killorn-Thompson-Pyatt/Palat
Hedman/Salo
Aulie/Gudas
I would not lose a wink of sleep if these listed were gone;
Malone, Purcell, Vinny(too many injuries, I'd rather trade him in hopes of something decent in return, great person but this is a business, time to break ties, he'll always be remembered for what he's done and I'll always keep the memories of him as a TB player, but he needs to move on), Carle, Brewer.
Whether these players are just emotionally/physically/etc drained, I have no idea, or its because of Guy. I havent got a clue, nobody but them really knows, but they arent showing motivation and that does stem from the captain of your ship, the coach of a team, and thats Boucher's fault. But its not entirely his fault with the way players make some decisions. Some decision making going on by very experienced players/cup winners, is pretty embarassing TO SAY THE LEAST! His "system" is hurting our players at this point, its a detriment to how they play.
You have to somewhere in your own analysis think of this;
You have an AHL farm team.
You have the NHL team.
You have Cooper.
You have Boucher.
One is winning.
One is losing.
One is dominating games losing their best players.
One is gaining more offensive and defensive depth, while losing 2 players to be fair, and is STILL losing.
One has a damn good record.
One has one successful year in each level, then spirals downhill.
Your call on what should be done, I know what I'd do.
