GDT: 3/17/16 - 8:30PM EDT - Tampa Bay @ Dallas

[Kramerica Industries]

This place is insufferable on a losing streak lmao

It's been an underachieving season in general. Get to the playoffs and everything starts over and maybe it doesn't matter anymore, but it's just been a really grating season to get through. Certainly less enjoyable than either of the past two seasons by a country mile.

Not that I need to explain this to you; I mean, you get this as well as anyone else here. But falling short of expectations is always what makes people the most upset in any situation. No one likes to feel let down.

 

[MattM92]

So did we lose last night because of tactics? Cooper's system? Or because of bad line combinations? Or any other coach's responsibilities that we can assess (not behind the scenes)? Or was it because of a lack of effort? Coop can tell the how to play hockey, but he can't make them.

Fans blame a coach because they aren't wearing a jersey with his name on it. The players are the heroes, and by blaming a coach, you can boil all of the issues down to one thing and act like theirs a simple solution. Sorry to say it, but there are many many issues with this team right now, and it's not always easy to put your finger on.

Considering Cooper's biggest supposed strength is he knows how to motivate guys and that players would "go through a brick wall" for him (or whatever used to be said about him), yes. We've recognized for a while that he lacks in the tactical aspects of the game but that he is a great developmental and character coach. Where's the character? Where's the drive from the players?

I'm definitely more willing to believe it's one guy doing a poor job than 23 guys.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I think it's perfectly fine to blame Cooper when we are losing but I never see praise for him when the team wins.

The team looked really good in the first two periods but for whatever reason looked flat in the third. I wonder if the team is hitting a wall of some sorts. They have looked tired as of late.

I don't know. It's weird because we all know this team is capable of playing with anybody when they are on. When they are off they look like they are watching the other team to see what they will do.

It's getting to be crunch time and if they don't get going they will find themselves on the outside looking in again. If they make it in they can't play like this or it will be a first round exit. They are capable of so much more. Problem is that the competition in this league is amazing. It's all about that team peaking at the right time. We had that going for a bit but is struggling to find it again. We better find it again soon and stay with it.

 

[Sky04]

I think it's perfectly fine to blame Cooper when we are losing but I never see praise for him when the team wins.

The team looked really good in the first two periods but for whatever reason looked flat in the third. I wonder if the team is hitting a wall of some sorts. They have looked tired as of late.

I don't know. It's weird because we all know this team is capable of playing with anybody when they are on. When they are off they look like they are watching the other team to see what they will do.

It's getting to be crunch time and if they don't get going they will find themselves on the outside looking in again. If they make it in they can't play like this or it will be a first round exit. They are capable of so much more. Problem is that the competition in this league is amazing. It's all about that team peaking at the right time. We had that going for a bit but is struggling to find it again. We better find it again soon and stay with it.

Cooper has been given an absolutely solid roster by Yzerman, very few coaches could fail with this roster if it was handed to them tomorrow.

Seeing Boucher come one game away from the SCF (which IMO we would've beat Vancouver) with the dreadful defense that he had was more impressive than Coop's run last year.

It doesn't mean coaches on great teams shouldn't get credit, but name me the things Cooper does that have a significant impact on those wins? Or is it just the talent playing through?

Quinville in lasts years playoffs played his top-4 defense an insane amount of minutes and limited his weak bottom pairing defenseman to less than 6mins per game because he recognized they were a weakness. Then we have Coop who plays a defenseman (Sustr) who was a defensive wreck last year 14-15mins a night, while at the same time limiting a player (Drouin) who had a high points/60 average when we were lacking goals.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

It's been an underachieving season in general. Get to the playoffs and everything starts over and maybe it doesn't matter anymore, but it's just been a really grating season to get through. Certainly less enjoyable than either of the past two seasons by a country mile.

Not that I need to explain this to you; I mean, you get this as well as anyone else here. But falling short of expectations is always what makes people the most upset in any situation. No one likes to feel let down.

I can certainly agree it's been an underachieving, inconsistent season. This team kinda played with our feelings and it's tiresome. I'm just not a fan of the scapegoat thing, which is automatic each time we're hitting a bump in the road... I just to try to be pragmatic and not let myself getting carried away by the complaisant narrative.
Sure Cooper has his flaws but the major part of our players are also being suffisant and bought way too much into they own hype. Cooper needs to address many things, like figuring out how our defense must be, once again, more involved in the offensive zone play, but there are some glaring issues the players can only fix themselves.

 

[Lovethiscity]

Considering Cooper's biggest supposed strength is he knows how to motivate guys and that players would "go through a brick wall" for him (or whatever used to be said about him), yes. We've recognized for a while that he lacks in the tactical aspects of the game but that he is a great developmental and character coach. Where's the character? Where's the drive from the players?

I'm definitely more willing to believe it's one guy doing a poor job than 23 guys.

Really? Because whenever I point out how things are turning around and Coop must be really getting them into gear I'm told "he's not really known as a motivational coach". It might not be 23 guys doing a bad job, but if it's two or three top guys, you know it has a domino effect. They're a team and feed off each other so, yeah, when guys are playing bad more guys start playing bad.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Cooper has been given an absolutely solid roster by Yzerman, very few coaches could fail with this roster if it was handed to them tomorrow.

Seeing Boucher come one game away from the SCF (which IMO we would've beat Vancouver) with the dreadful defense that he had was more impressive than Coop's run last year.

It doesn't mean coaches on great teams shouldn't get credit, but name me the things Cooper does that have a significant impact on those wins? Or is it just the talent playing through?

Quinville in lasts years playoffs played his top-4 defense an insane amount of minutes and limited his weak bottom pairing defenseman to less than 6mins per game because he recognized they were a weakness. Then we have Coop who plays a defenseman (Sustr) who was a defensive wreck last year 14-15mins a night, while at the same time limiting a player (Drouin) who had a high points/60 average when we were lacking goals.

You make good points however while coop is not perfect he definitely does some things that we are not all that aware of. I doubt Yzerman would give him an extension just because he went to the finals last year.

I will also say Coop deserves credit for helping the development of the triplets. He coached them in the AHL and gave them a shot in the nhl when I'm not sure a lot of the league would have.

I just think it's bs that we give the talent the credit when we win but give Coop the blame when the team loses. I don't think it works that way. It's a team effort and the coach is doing a lot of things right when the team wins too. As well as when they lose.

 

[MattM92]

Really? Because whenever I point out how things are turning around and Coop must be really getting them into gear I'm told "he's not really known as a motivational coach". It might not be 23 guys doing a bad job, but if it's two or three top guys, you know it has a domino effect. They're a team and feed off each other so, yeah, when guys are playing bad more guys start playing bad.

He is absolutely known as a motivational coach and he always has been. When he was first brought up to coach the Lightning, it was beaten to death how his players would run through a wall for him. No idea where you've seen people say that because I haven't seen anyone say that he isn't a motivational coach, but I also don't read every single post so I may have missed them.

 

[MattM92]

You make good points however while coop is not perfect he definitely does some things that we are not all that aware of. I doubt Yzerman would give him an extension just because he went to the finals last year.

I will also say Coop deserves credit for helping the development of the triplets. He coached them in the AHL and gave them a shot in the nhl when I'm not sure a lot of the league would have.

I just think it's bs that we give the talent the credit when we win but give Coop the blame when the team loses. I don't think it works that way. It's a team effort and the coach is doing a lot of things right when the team wins too. As well as when they lose.

Cooper has done some things right for sure. He's got a really solid system, he was a great player developer in Syracuse and Norfolk, he did a good job winning in the minors, and the players seem to like him. However, none of that matters if he can't get results in the NHL.

His career has followed a line trend, and that scares me because we never got a chance to see what happens when he reaches the top.

2 seasons with the St. Louis Bandits in which the team got better each year and a championship in his second year.

2 seasons with the Green Bay Gamblers in which the team got better every year and a championship in his second year.

2 seasons with the Norfolk Admirals in which the team got better every year and a championship in his second year.

Throw out his half season in Syracuse and half season in Tampa.

2 seasons with Tampa Bay in which the team got better every year and a very close loss for the championship in his second year.

Now what happens once the line reaches the top? Does it tip a little higher and result in a championship? Does it plateau and we stay good to great without winning? Or does it start to dip?

 

[FinnLightning26]

You make good points however while coop is not perfect he definitely does some things that we are not all that aware of. I doubt Yzerman would give him an extension just because he went to the finals last year.

I will also say Coop deserves credit for helping the development of the triplets. He coached them in the AHL and gave them a shot in the nhl when I'm not sure a lot of the league would have.

I just think it's bs that we give the talent the credit when we win but give Coop the blame when the team loses. I don't think it works that way. It's a team effort and the coach is doing a lot of things right when the team wins too. As well as when they lose.

He has developed a lot of young players for this team. His handling of Drouin deserves criticism but there's plenty of blame to go around in that situation. There have been many coaches who have punished young offensive guys for their mistakes and there will be many after Cooper. Every coach in the league preaches defense first and when you're not good defensively enough, you get benched, especially as a young guy. He has given a lot of young guys chances and they have taken those chances and ran. We're one of the youngest team in the NHL. Triplets come to mind first but he also played Paquette in the 2014 playoffs after just, if I remember correctly, four NHL games. Paquette wasn't Cooper's player in the AHL either so you can't say he was one of his guys. If you play like he wants you to, you'll get ice time. Just like any coach in any league.

 

[FinnLightning26]

Cooper has done some things right for sure. He's got a really solid system, he was a great player developer in Syracuse and Norfolk, he did a good job winning in the minors, and the players seem to like him. However, none of that matters if he can't get results in the NHL.

His career has followed a line trend, and that scares me because we never got a chance to see what happens when he reaches the top.

2 seasons with the St. Louis Bandits in which the team got better each year and a championship in his second year.

2 seasons with the Green Bay Gamblers in which the team got better every year and a championship in his second year.

2 seasons with the Norfolk Admirals in which the team got better every year and a championship in his second year.

Throw out his half season in Syracuse and half season in Tampa.

2 seasons with Tampa Bay in which the team got better every year and a very close loss for the championship in his second year.

Now what happens once the line reaches the top? Does it tip a little higher and result in a championship? Does it plateau and we stay good to great without winning? Or does it start to dip?

I guess we'll see but to say he has lost the team already is premature. For many losses this season I'd blame the players a lot more than the coaches. They just straight up refuse to put in the work needed sometimes like in the third period of the Stars game. The coach can do some things like call a timeout or yell at them but ultimately, it's up to the players to actually give a crap. Too many times this season I've seen players who seem entitled to win because of history and guys who've bought too much into their own hype.

 

[Werewolf]

You can't blame Cooper any more than you can blame a single player any more than you can blame Yzerman, etc. Everyone is a bit at fault. Cooper has installed a good system and none of us know what goes on behind closed doors. Rather have a cool calm collected rational coach than one that is constantly throwing fits, making faces, and acting like a victim all the time - example: see Claude Julien, etc.

Edit - rather see that fiery stuff from the players on the bench especially the Captain rather than the coach. Coach does that in private. Out on the field, pitch, rink, ballpark its 90% players and 10% coach. Out in the practice and installing systems and getting the players ready is 90% coach and 10% players. Its out on the rink where these players just don't have that fire this year for whatever reason.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Cooper has done some things right for sure. He's got a really solid system, he was a great player developer in Syracuse and Norfolk, he did a good job winning in the minors, and the players seem to like him. However, none of that matters if he can't get results in the NHL.

His career has followed a line trend, and that scares me because we never got a chance to see what happens when he reaches the top.

2 seasons with the St. Louis Bandits in which the team got better each year and a championship in his second year.

2 seasons with the Green Bay Gamblers in which the team got better every year and a championship in his second year.

2 seasons with the Norfolk Admirals in which the team got better every year and a championship in his second year.

Throw out his half season in Syracuse and half season in Tampa.

2 seasons with Tampa Bay in which the team got better every year and a very close loss for the championship in his second year.

Now what happens once the line reaches the top? Does it tip a little higher and result in a championship? Does it plateau and we stay good to great without winning? Or does it start to dip?

Can't get results? His team is looking like it will make the playoffs 3 years in a row which is as good as this franchise has seen before.

I don't know what will happen with our team this year and it's been up and down all year. All of the teams seem to be close in talent and ability. It's going to come down to who is hot when it matters most. Our team wasn't that much better than the ones we beat last year to get to the final. Chicago wasn't that much better than us. Whoever is healthy and rides the momentum at the right times wins it all. Our team needs to get that groove back or it will see an early exit.

 

[Lovethiscity]

Cooper has done some things right for sure. He's got a really solid system, he was a great player developer in Syracuse and Norfolk, he did a good job winning in the minors, and the players seem to like him. However, none of that matters if he can't get results in the NHL.

His career has followed a line trend, and that scares me because we never got a chance to see what happens when he reaches the top.

2 seasons with the St. Louis Bandits in which the team got better each year and a championship in his second year.

2 seasons with the Green Bay Gamblers in which the team got better every year and a championship in his second year.

2 seasons with the Norfolk Admirals in which the team got better every year and a championship in his second year.

Throw out his half season in Syracuse and half season in Tampa.

2 seasons with Tampa Bay in which the team got better every year and a very close loss for the championship in his second year.

Now what happens once the line reaches the top? Does it tip a little higher and result in a championship? Does it plateau and we stay good to great without winning? Or does it start to dip?

You're point about his results dipping was that other teams are figuring him out and "the book has been written", but were not losing games because of his system.

If players like him etc., why would that get worse with more tenure? Again, we're losing games because the effort level falls short, not because of anything that might get worse with time.

 

[CupsOverCash]

You're point about his results dipping was that other teams are figuring him out and "the book has been written", but were not losing games because of his system.

If players like him etc., why would that get worse with more tenure? Again, we're losing games because the effort level falls short, not because of anything that might get worse with time.

Exactly. When the team plays hard, smart and with full effort they are hard to beat. During our win streak they had this. Now during this losing streak they look like they think just showing up is going to result in wins.

Thats equally on the players and coaches. Need to get that edge back. Remember last year whenever they lost a game they would look like somebody killed their loved ones and back for revenge. The success last year may have gotten to their heads. Need to get back to that chip on their shoulder mentality.