Pre-Game Talk: 3/12/2015 | Blue Jackets @ Wings | 7:30pm | FS-D

[Frk It]

If you take him at face value, he said he wanted a "worker" or something on that line. Someone to fill the Helm/Abby role of grinding it out, forechecking, getting pucks back.

So you put Abby on one line, Cole on the other, and then you have a worker on both line.

But with more capable players.

 

[Heaton]

I respect Babcock as a coach. I want him to stay even despite pulling stunts like this.

But the fact that people don't take issue with this is simply mind-blowing to me.

I don't take issue because I think believing that Glendening is capable of singlehandedly making the line less effective isn't true. Datsyuk and Tatar can create more than enough offense, I don't really think the 3rd guy is all that important.

 

[Dynheart]

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 7m7 minutes ago
Lines the same:
Tatar-Datsyuk-Glendening
Abdelkader-Zetterberg-Cole
Nyquist-Sheahan-Pulkkinen
Miller-Andersson-Jurco
Weiss, Cleary rotating




me or roose?

Those lines are starting to look tasty. When Helm comes back, stick Glendening back on the 4th line..Weiss, Cleary and Andersson can all have a drink in the press box.

Imagine with Mantha here soon.

 

[Dynheart]

I don't take issue because I think believing that Glendening is capable of singlehandedly making the line less effective isn't true. Datsyuk and Tatar can create more than enough offense, I don't really think the 3rd guy is all that important.

This also. Helm/Glendening help with board battles. Something I can say they are better than both Tatar, and Datsyuk. Also, put a work horse on that line protects the star players (less puck handling).

Work>cycle>Work>cycle=score. Plus both Helm and Glendening are fast, so that helps with the forecheck as well.

I'm good with him pinching in for Helm.

 

[Frk It]

If we had a lack of players that can skate and win board battles, you guys may have a point.

But we have Cole and Abdelkader who thrive at this, while providing an improvement everywhere else.

Glendening has no forehand shot to speak of, and is at best mediocre at everything else offensively. I understand this "boards and skating" spiel, it has led to a long list of ridiculous suggestions as Datsyuk's linemates, including Tootoo. There's more to it than that, you can't just provide that without having skill too. Unless you just want to have really low standards. Or no standards, apparently.

 

[FlashyG]

Count me among those that doesn't like Glendening on the top line.

It's not his lack of offence that bothers me, its that I feel his greatest asset (his ability to play the pest role that infuriates the opposition into taking stupid penalties) is largely nullified by his lines puck control abilities.

He tends to frustrate players the most when the opposition has the puck. When you're on a line with Datsyuk...your line isn't going to be without the puck enough for Glendening to be at his best.

He hasn't embarassed himself on that line but its clear to see that the line was night and day better when Helm was the 3rd guy. Now that he's hurt, the offence seems to be coming primarily from the Cole/Zetterberg/Abdelkader line.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I respect Babcock as a coach. I want him to stay even despite pulling stunts like this.

But the fact that people don't take issue with this is simply mind-blowing to me.

Seconded. Glendening is a possession black hole, he kills their offensive chances every time.

 

[Heaton]

If we had a lack of players that can skate and win board battles, you guys may have a point.

But we have Cole and Abdelkader who thrive at this, while providing an improvement everywhere else.

Glendening has no forehand shot to speak of, and is at best mediocre at everything else offensively. I understand this "boards and skating" spiel, it has led to a long list of ridiculous suggestions as Datsyuk's linemates, including Tootoo. There's more to it than that, you can't just provide that without having skill too. Unless you just want to have really low standards. Or no standards, apparently.

Why break out the Zetterberg line if that's a line Babcock wants to carry into the playoffs? Let Glendening act as the place holder, he's been fine.

Seconded. Glendening is a possession black hole, he kills their offensive chances every time.

I think that's a pretty big hyperbole. The best lines in the league have generally been duos that make the most difference. Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't really need Holmstrom the vast majority of the time, but he complimented them well. Ovechkin and Backstrom, Getzlaf and Perry, The Sedins, Spezza and Heatley, Stamkos and Martin St. Louis.

I don't believe Glendening is all of a sudden a top 6 guy, but the driving force on that line is Datsyuk and Tatar, the 3rd guy can help, but they generally don't add that much. Glendening gets the puck, gives it to them and goes to the net or wins board battles. This isn't 35 year old Dan Cleary, I think that's a bad comparison.

 

[detredWINgs]

Glendening on the top line is reminiscent of Abdelkader in his early stints on the top line - it's nice to see him working hard and winning battles but unless the result is the puck squirting free to a teammate, it kills a lot of plays due to his lack of even average playmaking ability. The result is a decent amount of zone time, which is nice and definitely helpful, but not a lot of cohesive scoring opportunities.

In short, I'm fine with Glenny up there for the time being, but I'm with Frk here - you can have a hard-hat guy on two lines by splitting Cole and Abby and the talent doesn't take a hit.

 

[mindfly]

7-10 days they said.. it's day 11 now and Helm won't play tomorrow (day 12)...great..........

 

[ap3x]

What do you suggest instead: Rushing him into the play, because he was supposed to be back by then? If he isn't ready, he isn't ready. Winnable game without him.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I think that's a pretty big hyperbole. The best lines in the league have generally been duos that make the most difference. Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't really need Holmstrom the vast majority of the time, but he complimented them well. Ovechkin and Backstrom, Getzlaf and Perry, The Sedins, Spezza and Heatley, Stamkos and Martin St. Louis.

I don't believe Glendening is all of a sudden a top 6 guy, but the driving force on that line is Datsyuk and Tatar, the 3rd guy can help, but they generally don't add that much. Glendening gets the puck, gives it to them and goes to the net or wins board battles. This isn't 35 year old Dan Cleary, I think that's a bad comparison.

Eh, it's a little hyperbolic, I agree with you. Sometimes to make a point, I will go to the extreme. But the fact is, it is in the numbers. Small sample size, obviously, but looking at his possession metrics over the last couple of games compared to Tatar and Datsyuk, as well as the WOWY's, while Glendening's are higher than they were, Datsyuk's and Tatar's are down. (Both Tatar and Datsyuk are elite possession players too)

And yeah, while teams do have great duos, most of those duos have spent years looking for the missing third cog on those lines usually cramming players who don't belong there much to the chagrin of their fanbase.

I never compared Glendening to a 35 year old Cleary, incidentally. But Glendening should be on the 4th line and should not be receiving offensive zone starts. He has his role on his team and he fulfills it admirably, but jamming a sphere into a square hole never works. Glendening isn't Helm.

 

[FlashyG]

7-10 days they said.. it's day 11 now and Helm won't play tomorrow (day 12)...great..........

When will we learn as fans that when a member of the Wings management says a player will be out "x" amount of days/weeks or month, that at a minimum that number should be doubled.

They are famous for downplaying the seriousness of players injuries, which is why Franzen is out with an "Upper Body Injury" and was initially said to miss a little more than a week.

Helm will likely be back this weekend or shortly after. Marchenko (Same Injury) is likely just slightly ahead of Helm's timetable from what I've read.

 

[Henkka]

Count me among those that doesn't like Glendening on the top line.

It's not his lack of offence that bothers me, its that I feel his greatest asset (his ability to play the pest role that infuriates the opposition into taking stupid penalties) is largely nullified by his lines puck control abilities.

He tends to frustrate players the most when the opposition has the puck. When you're on a line with Datsyuk...your line isn't going to be without the puck enough for Glendening to be at his best.

Agree with this totally. Very good post. But Babcock likes to test things and build plan a's plan b's and plan c's. It's worth of try to build some new experience for Glendening, and after he goes back to his old role, he has learned hopefully something, and will be even better pest.

 

[Hammettf2b]

What do you suggest instead: Rushing him into the play, because he was supposed to be back by then? If he isn't ready, he isn't ready. Winnable game without him.

Agreed. No need to rush him back.

 

[MTU hockey]

Winning board battles is worthless if you get the puck and are not able to get the puck to your teammates or making any other play resulting in a scoring chance.

 

[Heaton]

Winning board battles is worthless if you get the puck and are not able to get the puck to your teammates or making any other play resulting in a scoring chance.

I say he's doing that. He's just a stop gap regardless.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Seconded. Glendening is a possession black hole, he kills their offensive chances every time.

He also initiates a good deal of possession through his work on the fore check and along the boards. This notion that a player is a net drag on possession because he doesn't finish is share of offensive chances is overly simplistic and almost cliché at this point.

Babcock admitted in one of the papers yesterday that Glendening is a placeholder for Helm and that he doesn't naturally fit on the 1st line. He struck me as well aware of the issue.

I really like the 2nd and 3rd lines as currently constituted and am willing to deal with Glendening on the top line until Helm gets back.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

He also initiates a good deal of possession through his work on the fore check and along the boards. This notion that a player is a net drag on possession because he doesn't finish is share of offensive chances is overly simplistic and almost cliché at this point.

Babcock admitted in one of the papers yesterday that Glendening is a placeholder for Helm and that he doesn't naturally fit on the 1st line. He struck me as well aware of the issue.

I really like the 2nd and 3rd lines as currently constituted and am willing to deal with Glendening on the top line until Helm gets back.

As indicated in my previous post, based off WOWY's and CF% in the last couple of games, Tatar and Datsyuk's possession numbers are down, indicating that he is dead weight on the line.

Glendening isn't Helm.

 

[Kronwalled55]

I bashed Babcock for keeping Glendening on the top line last game, but I don't think it's a big deal. If that line is going to score, it's going to be because of Datsyuk and Tatar. If Luke can win a battle or two and create space, terrific. If not, we still have two extremely talented guys that can create chances by themselves. Like others have stated, he's just a placeholder for the time being.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

As indicated in my previous post, based off WOWY's and CF% in the last couple of games, Tatar and Datsyuk's possession numbers are down, indicating that he is dead weight on the line.

Glendening isn't Helm.

Like you point out, the sample size is very, very small. I am fine with him there as a place holder until Helm gets back (provided the recovery is largely on track).

 

[Chip39]

If you want to use numbers they have a couple of goals too.

 

[Pavels Dog]

There are worse guys than Glendening to reward with a stint on the top line. Guy has worked extremely hard this season and even chipped in some goals.

It's temporary and I think it makes sense as a Helm replacement. And it sends the right kind of message to the guys. Hard work=icetime. Two giveaways on the powerplay that lead to shorthanded goals? No icetime.

 

[ricky0034]

the fact that so many people defending Luke Glendening of all people being on the top line suggests to me that people will defend literally anything

this is a guy that has put up 20 points in 121 games over the past two seasons,and here he is about to be on the first line for the 4th game in a row

I mean....come on

i'm sitting here picturing Babcock putting Howard on the penalty kill as a skater and people saying things along the lines of "the pk has been pretty bad we needed someone who can block shots"

Luke Glendening has been on the top line for 3 games now,so far the Wings have lost 2 games in regulation for the first time all year and been outshot 38-26 by the Oilers

 

[Pavels Dog]

the fact that so many people defending Luke Glendening of all people being on the top line suggests to me that people will defend literally anything

this is a guy that has put up 20 points in 121 games over the past two seasons,and here he is about to be on the first line for the 4th game in a row

I mean....come on

i'm sitting here picturing Babcock putting Howard on the penalty kill as a skater and people saying things along the lines of "the pk has been pretty bad we needed someone who can block shots"

Luke Glendening has been on the top line for 3 games now,so far the Wings have lost 2 games in regulation for the first time all year and been outshot 38-26 by the Oilers

Why must everyone either be in "attack" or "defend" stance? Glendening isn't the reason for this team's poor play as of late. He's on the top line for 1-2 more games, tops. The Glendening debate suggests to me that people will blame a bad stretch of games on literally anything. Just like they will find ways to credit anyone and anything for a good stretch of games. Teams have ups and downs and they're not caused by #6 d-men or a hard-working, defensively strong forward.