Post-Game Talk: #26 - 03/13/2021 | Rangers @ Bruins | 1:00 PM EST - NHLN, MSG+

[CupSeeker]

Lafreniere finds himself in a lot more 'high scoring' chances compared to Kakko imo.

Kakko has been mainly perimeter on offense. Playing outside the dots. I'd love to see him dart/cut in sometimes

At this point I do not understand how our #1 and #2 pick do not get chances on PP1. No unit is working. How about we try something different?

Kakko is 3rd man high alot. The second the play starts to break down, he is getting back on D. He is playing well; just not committing to the offensive side of the puck enough; maybe. Made a few really good plays in this game that led to chances for others/

 

[aufheben]

I don't know if I can subscribe to the whole "it is what it is, they just need experience" thing. I don't see development of top picks take this long anywhere but here.

Lol the kid drafted right after Lafreniere isn’t even in the NHL yet.

 

[Machinehead]

Lol the kid drafted right after Lafreniere isn’t even in the NHL yet.

He was always a long-term project. Lafreniere was supposed to be ready. So was Kakko.

What's the ballpark on how many times this has to happen before the Rangers have something to do with it?

 

[egelband]

It's good that they're driving play but I can also see why they're not scoring. They get into the zone effectively but they're not very creative. I don't think Quinn knows how to teach NHL offense to guys who have never done it. Guys just kind of do what they do. That's good for guys like Panarin but I think we need somebody to bring in a plan with the puck the way Martin has established a plan without the puck.

I’m not sure a coach in the NHL is expected to teach guys how to be creative and score goals. There are certain things a coach can do but offensive creativity is kind of baked in, I imagine.

Quinn can encourage a certain style and reinforce it throughout the game. And obviously we expect him to get the team to buy in. But I’m not sure he is in control of what these guys do down low with a defender bearing down. They’ve got to get reps and work it out.

 

[ohbaby]

We shut them out, they shut us out, I'm a little tired of this Jekyll and Hyde play. We dominated them today with excellent D and opportune scoring. So my question is what happened two nights ago? We were coming off two losses to Pittsburgh, so we had more than enough reasons to come out flying, and we just laid down and went to sleep. Can it be as simple as getting the early lead? Well sure that helps, but there has to be more to it than that. You can't lay down just because you are trailing early. And the Rangers better learn that quickly if they want to make a run this season. Almost every game we trail this season, you might as well turn the channel cause we ain't coming back. It was a whole different mentality last year where we never gave up and never surrendered. Till they show me some come from behind spirit, I fear this season is a bust.

I'm sorry but watching this game today, just made me even madder about the game a couple of nights ago.

 

[egelband]

He was always a long-term project. Lafreniere was supposed to be ready. So was Kakko.

What's the ballpark on how many times this has to happen before the Rangers have something to do with it?

I think you’ve got to give this all some time. Lafreniere looks good. He has a golden opportunity every game. He’s not finishing and he’s not playing aggressively enough, I’d say. But he’s a good player even this soon. Kakko had a rough first 60 games out of the gate but he has been excellent since. Would like him to be more aggressive but otherwise he’s becoming a difference-maker. And underrated defensively.

 

[Machinehead]

At this point in his rookie season, with the benefit of a full training camp and normal schedule, Rick Nash had 13 points. Steven Stamkos had 11 points. Taylor Hall had 15 points. Nail Yakupov had 13 points. Nathan MacKinnon had 13 points. Jack Hughes had 12 points. With the exception of Hughes, every one of those first overall picks finished the season with a higher pts/gm than they had at the 26 game mark of the season.

Looked at another way, Lafrenière is at 1.13 p/60 at 5v5. Nash (1.56), Stamkos (1.01), Tavares (1.27), Hall (1.45), Yakupov (1.25), and Hughes (1.35) all had similarly mediocre starts in their first 26 games. Every single one of them improved, again except Hughes.

With the exception of Yakupov (bust) and Hughes (too soon) every one of those guys put together careers worthy of their 1OA slot.

And I don't think it can be overstated just how much the schedule this year has impacted Lafrenière and I don't think the Rangers are an outlier here.

Maybe the numbers aren't that significant but he is lagging behind everyone else in this post. And that's coupled with the fact that Kakko's production has gone backwards. And yes, the improvements to his overall game are extremely significant, but 2OA picks are supposed to produce in the NHL.

The HF tendency is to draw a line in the sand but I think there's a lot of middle ground between everything's fine and the sky is falling. I think our development could stand to improve. It's worth mentioning that every guy you mentioned, with the exception of Stamkos, plays/ed for a consistently unsuccessful franchise. Even if Lafreniere keeps up with that group, it's probably not the group we want to be in.

 

[Machinehead]

I’m not sure a coach in the NHL is expected to teach guys how to be creative and score goals. There are certain things a coach can do but offensive creativity is kind of baked in, I imagine.

Quinn can encourage a certain style and reinforce it throughout the game. And obviously we expect him to get the team to buy in. But I’m not sure he is in control of what these guys do down low with a defender bearing down. They’ve got to get reps and work it out.

High-end offensive talent is either there or it's not, sure, but being in the right place and adapting to NHL defenses is very coachable.

I think you’ve got to give this all some time. Lafreniere looks good. He has a golden opportunity every game. He’s not finishing and he’s not playing aggressively enough, I’d say. But he’s a good player even this soon. Kakko had a rough first 60 games out of the gate but he has been excellent since. Would like him to be more aggressive but otherwise he’s becoming a difference-maker. And underrated defensively.

Aggression is coachable!

Quinn always talks about wanting to be aggressive but the team isn't, like, at all. There's where I think Quinn fails. Good ideas, no application. If he had better tactics and a clearer structure, application would be that much easier.

 

[egelband]

We shut them out, they shut us out, I'm a little tired of this Jekyll and Hyde play. We dominated them today with excellent D and opportune scoring. So my question is what happened two nights ago? We were coming off two losses to Pittsburgh, so we had more than enough reasons to come out flying, and we just laid down and went to sleep. Can it be as simple as getting the early lead? Well sure that helps, but there has to be more to it than that. You can't lay down just because you are trailing early. And the Rangers better learn that quickly if they want to make a run this season. Almost every game we trail this season, you might as well turn the channel cause we ain't coming back. It was a whole different mentality last year where we never gave up and never surrendered. Till they show me some come from behind spirit, I fear this season is a bust.

Panarin out makes a huge difference. That’s a line - the first line - that loses it’s puff. And they’re playing the best opponents in the league. I’d love to see them turn into a nonstop crash line when their skill players are out. But that’s a big ask.
I do wish they could put up a better showing - be more game when they’re short handed. But, at least they can fly high when healthy. We saw that today.

 

[egelband]

High-end offensive talent is either there or it's not, sure, but being in the right place and adapting to NHL defenses is very coachable.

Aggression is coachable!

Quinn always talks about wanting to be aggressive but the team isn't, like, at all. There's where I think Quinn fails. Good ideas, no application. If he had better tactics and a clearer structure, application would be that much easier.

Yes. I agree they need to play more edgy. And it appears - from what I read here - that Quinn tells them to let the refs handle that part. I reallllllly don’t like that. But I’m not gonna kill Quinn for the other stuff. At least I’m happy to let this season play out.

 

[ohbaby]

Panarin out makes a huge difference.

Panarin got nothing to do with the way we play without the lead. He's not gonna bring us back all by himself. And there were plenty of games this year where he played and we trailed with no hope of a comeback.

It's truly a Jekyll and Hyde team. We play monster when we have the lead, but when trailing, we are as useful as an 18th century English doctor without sanitary measures.

 

[Machinehead]

Yes. I agree they need to play more edgy. And it appears - from what I read here - that Quinn tells them to let the refs handle that part. I reallllllly don’t like that. But I’m not gonna kill Quinn for the other stuff. At least I’m happy to let this season play out.

Not even just edgy but like, I don't know, Lafreniere and Kakko just look afraid all the time. They just need to like take the puck and "GRRRRR!" I don't know how else to describe it.

 

[will1066]

Not even just edgy but like, I don't know, Lafreniere and Kakko just look afraid all the time. They just need to like take the puck and "GRRRRR!" I don't know how else to describe it.

I know what you mean. They don't have the "will." Not many on the team seem to have it. I watched the isles-devils tonight and the Isles' objective, shift after shift, was blatantly obvious: we intend to get the puck past the opposing goalie and we will do whatever it takes to accomplish our mission. Five Isles players on the ice on any given shift working collectively on that singular mission, and they are relentless at it.

 

[Machinehead]

I know what you mean. They don't have the "will." Not many on the team seem to have it. I watched the isles-devils tonight and the Isles' objective, shift after shift, was blatantly obvious: we intend to get the puck past the opposing goalie and we will do whatever it takes to accomplish our mission. Five Isles players on the ice on any given shift working collectively on that singular mission, and they are relentless at it.

Right, and I don't think the problem is "won't," I think the problem is "how?"

Attitude doesn't work without a structure.

 

[Tawnos]

Maybe the numbers aren't that significant but he is lagging behind everyone else in this post. And that's coupled with the fact that Kakko's production has gone backwards. And yes, the improvements to his overall game are extremely significant, but 2OA picks are supposed to produce in the NHL.

The HF tendency is to draw a line in the sand but I think there's a lot of middle ground between everything's fine and the sky is falling. I think our development could stand to improve. It's worth mentioning that every guy you mentioned, with the exception of Stamkos, plays/ed for a consistently unsuccessful franchise. Even if Lafreniere keeps up with that group, it's probably not the group we want to be in.

That's not worth mentioning, because it has nothing to do with those players themselves. Plus, there are plenty of guys that I didn't mention who had better rookie years and still play for bad franchises. McDavid, RNH, Kovalchuk, Hischier. All that this means is that drafting at the top of the draft isn't the only thing you need to do, which I think we both knew already.

I don't think the track record of 2OA picks is as good as you're implying there. You get the occasional Eichel or Malkin or even a Laine. But Bobby Ryan, JVR weren't even in the NHL in their D+1 or D+2. Jordan Staal and Landeskog each had a pretty good D+1 in the NHL and took a major step back in year 2. Seguin's and Svechnikov's D+1s looked a lot like Kakko's, but they did have a great 2nd years. Barkov's D+1 looked similar to Kakko's and his D+2 was just ok. Reinhart didn't play in the NHL in D+1, but had a good rookie season in D+2. Nolan Patrick had middling D+1 and D+2s, but injuries play a factor there.

The point is, 2OAs aren't this surefire bet to come into the NHL and be productive in D+1 and D+2. And when you take into account the weirdness of this year, plus the Rangers-specific bizarre things (poisoned locker room to start the year, Zibanejad's struggles, Panarian leave of absence, Kakko having Covid), I think they're doing fine. Not great, or even good. But fine. For me, fine is the middle ground, not on either side of the line.

There's another factor here that I think gets overlooked and that's the schedule. A normal schedule would see the Rangers playing more games against weaker teams. As it is, almost one-third of the remaining schedule is against Buffalo and New Jersey. Those are games where the kids have a better chance to put up production too.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Panarin out makes a huge difference. That’s a line - the first line - that loses it’s puff. And they’re playing the best opponents in the league. I’d love to see them turn into a nonstop crash line when their skill players are out. But that’s a big ask.
I do wish they could put up a better showing - be more game when they’re short handed. But, at least they can fly high when healthy. We saw that today.

Georgiev playing and being just a complete anchor this season also was a mjor factor.

 

[will1066]

Right, and I don't think the problem is "won't," I think the problem is "how?"

Attitude doesn't work without a structure.

They have that structure. Talking about the Isles. It seems every pass has a purpose, and it's to make forward progress or set up the next pass that accomplishes it. There are no wasted passes.

 

[egelband]

Georgiev playing and being just a complete anchor this season also was a mjor factor.

It’s a shame because we probably could have gotten something for him. Everyone kept saying he’s legit. I never saw the consistency, which is a goalkeeper’s currency. (They can ALL make great saves sometimes). But maybe I’m just missing it. Maybe he’s just developing still. He is young, to be fair.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It’s a shame because we probably could have gotten something for him. Everyone kept saying he’s legit. I never saw the consistency, which is a goalkeeper’s currency. (They can ALL make great saves sometimes). But maybe I’m just missing it. Maybe he’s just developing still. He is young, to be fair.

He'd have an awful game for every great game or two. But now he doesn't even have the great games anymore.

 

[egelband]

He'd have an awful game for every great game or two. But now he doesn't even have the great games anymore.

Yep. The first part we can reasonably chalk up to youth. But we’re seeing a clod ever since the ADA thing.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Yep. The first part we can reasonably chalk up to youth. But we’re seeing a clod ever since the ADA thing.

I'll be honest, if I were to choose between having Georgiev on this team or ADA I choose ADA 100 times out of 100. Better a cancer in the lockerroom than on the ice.

 

[egelband]

I'll be honest, if I were to choose between having Georgiev on this team or ADA I choose ADA 100 times out of 100. Better a cancer in the lockerroom than on the ice.

If he’s truly a cancer, he can go kick rocks. But I wonder if ADA wasn’t just caught up in the winter Madness and the Rangers FO weren’t caught up in the PC Madness. I’m willing to believe he is irretrievable but also waiting for the tell-all.

 

[gravey9]

Panarin got nothing to do with the way we play without the lead. He's not gonna bring us back all by himself. And there were plenty of games this year where he played and we trailed with no hope of a comeback.

It's truly a Jekyll and Hyde team. We play monster when we have the lead, but when trailing, we are as useful as an 18th century English doctor without sanitary measures.

The Jekyll and Hyde thing simply comes down to how the better teams play tighter with the lead. They play with more structure and this team has a hard time breaking down that structure. We're just not able to break other teams from their plan. Its an issue for sure.

It also doesn't help that the Bruins and Islanders and Caps all can play a highly structured style. And Flyers aren't that bad at it either. In a normal season, every team would be playing low intensity games for half of their 82 game schedule. Playing teams like the Wings, Flames, Hawks, Ottawa. There's more variation in the schedule. More back to backs where you're traveling in between games. Those low intensity games are boring and sleepy -- but they help build confidence, pad stats, etc. And more importantly those games skew the numbers as well. This roster could likely come back against the Ducks/Kings/Flames/Sharks/Sens. And those comebacks would blind us from seeing that the team can't really come back against a good opponent that's on their game -- because the overall stats likely wouldn't bare that out.

The greatest thing that could happen for this team is for the young kids to keep getting games so they get experience and so the team can evaluate what they have and for us to play .500 the rest of the way against the top teams in our division. That would be a worthy building block. getting shesty back too would be nice.

 

[TominNC]

I'll be honest, if I were to choose between having Georgiev on this team or ADA I choose ADA 100 times out of 100. Better a cancer in the lockerroom than on the ice.

Maybe better with both gone, but ADA wrote his own ticket.

 

[Rempe73]

Well, we did it boys. We solved Halak. Sorry @Tob, but that was some good coaching. Still not convinced, because no NHL team/coach loses every game, but it’s a start. Also, if we can play like this, where was it earlier?

Quinn 1st star of the game for scratching Howden. I can’t believe he did that.

When did Rooney start making elite plays? Don’t think it will last, but nice to see regardless.

Buchnevich, Zibanejad, Lindgren, Hajek, Kreider, and Kakko - very good, but Zibanejad’s one-timer is permanently broken it seems. It’s kind of a rare skill to have, so I really hope it somehow gets fixed.

Lafreniere got better as the game went on, but I want to see more at even strength. I like the Lafreniere - Chytil - Kakko line and how Chytil’s speed creates more open space and opportunities for all 3 of them, but Lafreniere has to be a bit better.

I’m starting to like Strome and kind of want to keep him. Never thought I would say that. Dude is lowkey pretty skilled.

Key - amazing. I don’t expect him to play like this every time, but he was borderline elite tonight. Shades of Dougie Hamilton and Seth Jones (yes I know it’s a lazy comparison but they both have that fluid skating stride and impact both ends of the ice in a similar way).

Fox blocked that shot for Kinkaid, man. Now THAT’S a team play right there. You have to respect that. Other than that, Fox is pretty boring because you just KNOW that he’s going to have a spectacular game. He may not be as skilled as the best players in the league (he’s extremely skilled but it’s more subtle) and he’s not the fastest, but I think he’s more cerebral and just as effective.

Trouba was also fantastic, but I’m not surprised. He has about 1 good game out of 4 or 5. Being the 8 million dollar man, he’s definitely held to a higher standard, and I need more from him. I’m not fully convinced yet. Like come on, why can’t he play like this more often?

Kinkaid played very well but he didn’t have much work to do. Good point by Vally that it can be harder when you face less shots. I would say it’s especially true for backups.

I like Callahan as an analyst. Also love his loyalty to the Rangers.

Only buzzkill is that Wahlstrom (and Dobson) are both playing well. That hurts, even though I still have hope for Kravtsov.