25 under 25 - HF Edition - #4

[1865]

First three down with quite comfortable winners, next to come.

Poll 4 open!

#1 - Ivan Provorov - 87.7%
#2 - Nolan Patrick - 90.9%
#3 - Travis Konecny - 78.6%

----------------------------------------------------

24 hours for each poll as we go, should be done by the new season.

Figured this is fun elsewhere, thought we'd see if we could get a collective together before the new season. This is the top 25 players in the organisation who are under 25 years old. A thorough ranking of the future of the organisation. You rank the players as you feel of course, but i base my rankings on potential more than current achievements. This way you'll probably see a risky Ratcliffe over a reliable Laughton. Others see NHL experience as a bigger positive than a higher ceiling with a question mark, it's up to you.

Click to read more...

 

[deadhead]

Now we're looking at potential over production (since none have significant production other than Laughton).
I'd go with Hart, then Frost, Myers, Farabee, O'Brien, Sanheim.
I'm not sold on Sanheim until he gets stronger and shows a higher hockey IQ.
The others are better bets to hit their ceilings or come close to it.

 

[Appleyard]

Sanheim has pretty great hockey IQ... I would say better than Myers for example.

Myers is basically a slightly less talented Sanheim who is more physical and a righty... he might even play a riskier game, pinch more and take more chance. But because he is physical people mistake that for being superior defensively.

Don't get me wrong, I think Myers (sans injuries) is a #4 in future at worst, but I have no clue how such a disparate general consensus in some sections of the Flyers fan-base has came about in regards to them. They are very similar players stylistically.

And they have ten months difference in age, played on the same team for parts of last season, on the same pairing at times, and Sanheim was the superior player at both ends... despite not being as physically mature.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Sanheim has pretty great hockey IQ... I would say better than Myers for example.

Myers is basically a slightly less talented Sanheim who is more physical and a righty... he might even play a riskier game, pinch more and take more chance. But because he is physical people mistake that for being superior defensively.

Don't get me wrong, I think Myers (sans injuries) is a #4 in future at worst, but I have no clue how such a disparate general consensus in some sections of the Flyers fan-base has came about in regards to them. They are very similar players stylistically.

And they have ten months difference in age, played on the same team for parts of last season, on the same pairing at times, and Sanheim was the superior player at both ends... despite not being as physically mature.

Some people project their desires onto a player and ignore reality. The few that do, often haven't see them play and extrapolate the details of a small scouting blurb. Like you said, just because Myers is more physical than Sanheim, that doesn't make him better defensively.

 

[deadhead]

Myers was clearly superior in the AHL playoffs, though Sanheim may have been sulking.

And being more physical (and a righty) is a big thing, because if you're a big, mobile physical defensemen you have value irrespective of your offense, or why a healthy Morin would still be considered a top prospect (and he's not that much bigger than Myers). While Grossman showed that being big without mobility isn't enough, skating is not an issue for Myers or Morin, and size and a long reach gives you an edge in your D-zone.

Sanheim is ahead of Myers in terms of development, Myers didn't really get it together physically until after his draft year (like a lot of big players, just took longer to physically mature). And Sanheim is a year ahead age wise in any case.
Myers' season last year in the AHL is pretty comparable to Sanheim the season before.

It'll be interesting to see how big they are in TC this year, last year Myers was listed at 6'5 212 and Sanheim 6'3 205, but some reports have Myers up to 220 lbs. I don't expect Sanheim to get that big, I just want to see the functional strength to hold his own along the boards and in front of the net.

Frost wows, Farabee impresses and more observations from Flyers development camp

 

[Harhis]

Now we're looking at potential over production (since none have significant production other than Laughton).
I'd go with Hart, then Frost, Myers, Farabee, O'Brien, Sanheim.
I'm not sold on Sanheim until he gets stronger and shows a higher hockey IQ.
The others are better bets to hit their ceilings or come close to it.

O'Brien who has played HS hockey over a guy who has already proven he can play in the NHL and has 2nd pairing floor?

So you are not sold on a guy who has shown a lot more than another totally unproven guy. Makes zero sense.

 

[deadhead]

It is interesting how no one talks about Friedman.

Five years ago we'd be all excited about a 3rd rd pick who made steady progress in the AHL and was still only 22, the age when Ghost came up as a rookie.

Now, he's an afterthought.

 

[deadhead]

O'Brien who has played HS hockey over a guy who has already proven he can play in the NHL and has 2nd pairing floor?

So you are not sold on a guy who has shown a lot more than another totally unproven guy. Makes zero sense.

Sanheim has 3rd pair floor, since that's what he was last year. He's probably has the highest range of outcomes of our top prospects, because I didn't see a high Hockey IQ at all, great physical skills, good ice vision on offense, but a lack of defensive instincts (compare to Provorov as a 19 year old rookie). So he could be a tease on offense, a great offensive player who's shaky defensively, or grow into a great offensive player who's solid on defense (what Ghost took three years to become). MDZ to me is the cautionary tale, talented high draft pick who had a couple good seasons but was undisciplined and inconsistent.

O'Brien adjusted quickly to a high level of hockey this summer, and didn't look out of place (in fact, excelled) playing against top prospects. So at this point "HS" is irrelevant. What I like was he seemed to know what he's doing, and improved game to game, despite a lack of experience playing against top competition. One thing to look for in a raw prospect is how quickly they adjust to higher competition. Of course, until he has a year in college, it's all projection.

Lindblom on the other hand, is the "safest" of our prospects, he plays a solid two way game, has "true grit," it's obvious he has a high hockey IQ at both ends, and is fearless. Problem is he's not a great athlete, so question is how far can those great intangibles carry him.

 

[1865]

O'Brien who has played HS hockey over a guy who has already proven he can play in the NHL and has 2nd pairing floor?

So you are not sold on a guy who has shown a lot more than another totally unproven guy. Makes zero sense.

Sorry mate, who are you talking to here?

 

[Harhis]

Sorry mate, who are you talking to here?

I think you know very well without asking

 

[1865]

I think you know very well without asking

I genuinely don't. Nobody has talked about O'Brien in this thread.

 

[Harhis]

I genuinely don't. Nobody has talked about O'Brien in this thread.

You'll find your answer from your ignore list.

 

[1865]

You'll find your answer from your ignore list.

Ahhhhhhhhh, that makes sense. It doesn't even show the message!

 

[Rebels57]

Carter Hart again

Fight me @Stizzle

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Sanheim may have been sulking.

You are very lucky that there isn't a top turnbuckle in here for me to go off of.

 

[wasup]

I went with Hart over Sandheim it is very close to me .

 

[Rebels57]

I went with Hart over Sandheim it is very close to me .

It's Sanheim.

 

[deadhead]

Hart easily, see no evidence so far that Sanheim has the chops to be a franchise defenseman, Hart has the outside shot at being a franchise goalie.

 

[Striiker]

The prospect character assassination continues!



Entitled, sulking, egotistical, disobedient, and so on. What horrible kids this team keeps drafting. I thought Hextall valued character and work ethic? Weird.



And another mic drop by Appleyard too. A+ work

 

[deadhead]

Provorov has a shot at being a franchise defenseman, Sanheim is the same age, you think they're equivalent?

 

[kelmitchell]

Sorry mate, who are you talking to here?

If you have him blocked good for you

 

[Stizzle]

Carter Hart again

Fight me @Stizzle

 

[1865]

If you have him blocked good for you

Clearly do! Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[Adtar02]

The prospect character assassination continues!



Entitled, sulking, egotistical, disobedient, and so on. What horrible kids this team keeps drafting. I thought Hextall valued character and work ethic? Weird.



And another mic drop by Appleyard too. A+ work

Only presents facts!!!!!!!!!

 

[deadhead]

I wasn't even talking about Sanheim, just pointing out in general that lower draft picks and undrafted players who succeed will have higher work ethics because self-selection will weed out those who don't.

But some here make every thread and comment a referendum on Hakstol, and tout Sanheim only because Hakstol didn't play him as much as they think he should have played. Bring in a coach they like (for the first month) who benches Sanheim, and I'm sure there will be plenty of comments supporting the new coach's decision.

Sanheim played "soft" last year, that's a fact, just watch him along the boards and in front of his net. That's why I'm looking forward to seeing if Sanheim has added strength and a little snarl this offseason.