25 teams want equal chance for Crosby

[DARKSIDE]

So Everson (Devils beatwriter) writes one article and Brooks does his usual anti-NHL song and dance after Wednesday's meeting and this is your idea of large market coverage that will drive Crosby's popularity here? When was the last time during a hockey season here did any of these people do a feature on a player?

Even markets with less papers have far greater coverage and unlike here it's not burried.

Sherry Ross writes so infrequently for the Daily News on hockey when it was still being played it would be a miracle if she did a story on a local player. Joe Lapointe is a solid writer but the work is very infrequent and the A.P does most Times updates.

Diamos, Dellapina are the beatwriters and do their one article per game when the Rangers play or when something important happens. The Isles have the same thin coverage from Botte, Ron Dicker and Evan Grossman.

The Rangers most of those seven years went into the season with big expectations of winning and unlike other New York teams that lost, no one noticed or cared in the media. Brian Leetch got traded and it did not get one back page because Joe Torre decided to talk about a new contract in Feb.

You made a statement regarding hockey coverage in the NY metro area and I'm listing recent articles I've read. And that was just last week alone. And Crosby was even mentioned.

 

[CREW99AW]

You made a statement regarding hockey coverage in the NY metro area and I'm listing recent articles I've read. And that was just last week alone. And Crosby was even mentioned.

Brooks' the only NY columnist who regularly writes about the lockout.

The only time the rest of the NY media,has given the nhl lockout a 2nd thought,is when a meeting takes place between the league and union.and that's what we had last week.



when the nfl and major league baseball shutdown,we saw daily news coverage from the newspapers,tv and sports radio stations.

 

[NYIsles1*]

yeah you remember wrong. Gretzkys last game was on ABC.

Considering the NHL did not have a television contract with ABC that would not be possible now would it? Yankees-Tigers were shown over Gretzky vs Pittsburgh. If I recall correctly MSG had to show the Yankee game and join hockey in progress.

you can bring up the rangers only had 60 thousand viewers to watch and 80 million dollar team but the fact is they had 60 thousand viewers to watch a team that missed the playoff for 7 years! If the rangers were any good those numbers would be near 100000 viewers. the fact remains the rangers still have a number of sell outs. (check every thread you post in bashing the rangers. you know when you tell people how the garden is dead yet you can't back it up with numbers)

You act as if they went into those seven years as an expansion team with low expectations as opposed to star driven teams with veterans expected to win.

I do not have to talk about the true attendace at Msg because enough Ranger fans talk about the empty/unsold seats without me.

Dude your act is tired and your arguments are lame.

Not as tired or lame as some argument that a team that is seventh in their market can sell hockey to a singular demographic of dwindling fans or media that barely acknowledge hockey.

If crosby ends up in any big market in the united states (not just new york) it would help the nhl. The NHL can market crosby in new york but would have trouble if he was in atlanta. It doesn't matter that new york is a baseball town. Please name 5 NHL cities in america that hockey is the number one sport? ~chirp chirp tumbleweed chirp chirp~

Minnesota, Columbus, Colorado, Detroit, San Jose. With other teams that can carry their sport market for a peirod of time.

 

[signalIInoise]

Minnesota, Columbus, Colorado, Detroit, San Jose. With other teams that can carry their sport market for a peirod of time.

Minnesota (Minneapolis) - The Vikings are bigger than the Wild could ever hope to be.

Colorado (Denver) - So the Rockies left because they didn't want to push the Broncos to the side?

Detroit - Isn't the argument that people don't want Crosby to go to the usual suspects of playoff contenders/free-agency hawks?

I'll give you Columbus and San Jose, because, in a refreshing turn of events, someone on a hockey discussion board is willing to admit that he doesn't know everything about everything: I don't know a damned thing about those cities.

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

I did not have to add anything. You told me I was incorrect and that the Leafs in 2003-04 made more than 14.1 million. Then you post a book of information where you claim the Leafs in 2002-03 made 13.8 million.

So again where is this big Leafs profit?

[/size]

But you were the one who blames the expansion markets, now your includingflip-the so-called big markets and claim they were stupid. Is there any one left besides the Toronto Maple Leafs in the NHL you have not blamed?



Old enough to have enjoyed Pat LaFontaine's hat-trick and an 11-5 Islander win in Toronto in 1984 in a very quiet Maple Leaf Garden besides the bus loads of Isles fans in the house with center ice tickets. The Alan Bester era did not exactly pack them in.



Wonder if you have written that if Salming, Palmateer and McDonald were sold off in their prime or handed to the Detroit Red Wings. Ballard on his worst day was a prince compared to Pickett, Spano, Milstein/Gluckstern.



So we should blame the Sharks for the Leafs grabbing his contract? Any Islander or Coyote fan who saw Reichel for years knew he was not going to score much less give him three million for Pat Quinn to forget to include his name in the lineup in the playoffs as he had to leave the bench.

Is this the same 90m dollar Yashin who had seven points in seven games and opened the scoring in game seven in Toronto and did everything but score the tying goal in the third peirod? Seems like the Sens still have the same playoff problems without Yashin.



I'm bitter the Isles are not in the playoffs for a fourth straight season because some teams mismanaged themselves and the sport out of business. The Leafs did whatever was necessary for themselves, as usual by being reactionary and eveyone is paying for it.



They are not going to be picking or choosing very often. The fans in Toronto are not going to be very happy about that either for what they pay. The players in a capped world are going to sign where there is the most financial security.


Isles will be more than fine moving forward and have a tv contract that will bring in far more than the Leafs to sustain the franchise which is good for the entire league.

What's going to sustain the Leafs when they can no longer write a check or absorbe another big contract.

Listen son, the Leafs NET revenues were 17 million more than the next best team. Forbes is a load of crap.The NHL nor any team gave Forbes a look at the books. The list of revenues had things broken down into 4 subgroups, one of which was operating reveneues (concessions etc.) that was your 13,2 million figure. Ticket reveneues were 40 something million and the TOTAL Gross was over 100 million.

Second if you think all those bzos running a team in New York that nobody cares about were worse tha Ballard, you obviously have NO CLUE what you are talking about. Where is the line of sexually abused kids in Long Island? Ballard gutted the team for 30 years. Quit you whining about a 10 year downturn. And Lanny McDonald, Darryl Sittler, Mike Palmateer were all given away, so congratulations for proving your hockey knowldege is on par with your math and reading skills.

Third the Gardens and now the ACC has been sold since Christ was a cowboy. The could fill two ACCs.

Fourth: Yashin's 7 points in 7 games was 7 more than he scored in the previous two series' vs the Leafs.

Why aren't Toronto going to be picking early or often? Because they will be making the playoffs and continue trading picks for valuable assets.

The Leafs won't need to write big cheques to land talented players. That is the beauty of the Salary cap. It will handicap teams who won't be able to compete with the Leafs and Toronto's intangible assets, like playing in the Centre of the hockey universe instead of obscurity New York.

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

Isles will be more than fine moving forward and have a tv contract that will bring in far more than the Leafs to sustain the franchise which is good for the entire league.

What's going to sustain the Leafs when they can no longer write a check or absorbe another big contract.

This is the best part!! The Isladners are going to have a more lucrative television deal than the Leafs only because the Leafs are going to sell their television rights to Leafs TV for a $1.00. They will claim that as television rights revenues and then sell to CBC, TSN, SPORTSNET for a huge profit which will be in the Leafs TV (a separate company). Get ready to share some of that revenue small potatoes!

The Leafs have never had a problem selling out the building.

They can't keep their merchandise in stock.

The Isles will be lucky to get as much in total revenue as the Leafs make in hot dog sales! (that is if the 3rd banana in the hockey market and maybe tenth in the total market place manages to survive)

 

[NYIsles1*]

Listen son, the Leafs NET revenues were 17 million more than the next best team. Forbes is a load of crap.The NHL nor any team gave Forbes a look at the books. The list of revenues had things broken down into 4 subgroups, one of which was operating reveneues (concessions etc.) that was your 13,2 million figure. Ticket reveneues were 40 something million and the TOTAL Gross was over 100 million.

You used Forbes as your source in your book report as your " Hockey Homework" and vast knowledge. Now you claim it's crap. I don't think you know what your talking about at all.

As for the rest I have no interest in what you wrote. I do not engage in hockey discussion with someone who cannot conduct themselves within HF guidelines.

 

[Mess]

You used Forbes as your source in your book report as your " Hockey Homework" and vast knowledge. Now you claim it's crap. I don't think you know what your talking about at all.

Have you had a chance to see Maple Leaf Square ??

Not sure if the Forbes report is including the new extention to MLSE or not.

Here is the link : http://www.mapleleafs.com/story.ml?title=Press_Releases&ctype=Press_Releases&n=4804&e=AdminGroup

Make sure to catch the Video: Maple Leaf Square Unveiled , the new facility is going to be spectacular ..

You would think the lockout would put some financial hardships on the NHL's most profitable team, but apparently it is just freeing up their time to manage other investments better I suppose.

After all some teams are drawing from the War chest for their very survial while the Leafs are inviting Bettman to town to show him MLSE new $ 390 mil project that is getting under way..

"Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment has challenged itself to increase our enterprise value in a way that extends the reach of our brands," said Richard Peddie, president and CEO of Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment. "Maple Leaf Square will be a vibrant and unique landmark that has a tasteful sports and entertainment theme reflective of the Leafs, Raptors and Air Canada Centre. Our development creates a larger significant stage that will attract major sports and world events to Toronto and at the same time support tourism and economic growth."

Certainly quite a big gap between the Have and Have Nots of the NHL world. IMO

So I guess capping the Leafs is really going to help pay this off faster in the long run ..and I hear the Sidney Crosby wing of the new centre is suppose to be jaw dropping

 

[Poochie_D]

Have you had a chance to see Maple Leaf Square ??

Not sure if the Forbes report is including the new extention to MLSE or not.

Here is the link : http://www.mapleleafs.com/story.ml?title=Press_Releases&ctype=Press_Releases&n=4804&e=AdminGroup

Make sure to catch the Video: Maple Leaf Square Unveiled , the new facility is going to be spectacular ..

You would think the lockout would put some financial hardships on the NHL's most profitable team, but apparently it is just freeing up their time to manage other investments better I suppose.

After all some teams are drawing from the War chest for their very survial while the Leafs are inviting Bettman to town to show him MLSE new $ 390 mil project that is getting under way..

"Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment has challenged itself to increase our enterprise value in a way that extends the reach of our brands," said Richard Peddie, president and CEO of Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment. "Maple Leaf Square will be a vibrant and unique landmark that has a tasteful sports and entertainment theme reflective of the Leafs, Raptors and Air Canada Centre. Our development creates a larger significant stage that will attract major sports and world events to Toronto and at the same time support tourism and economic growth."

Certainly quite a big gap between the Have and Have Nots of the NHL world. IMO

So I guess capping the Leafs is really going to help pay this off faster in the long run ..and I hear the Sidney Crosby wing of the new centre is suppose to be jaw dropping

it would be a shame to hockey if crosby landed in a non-hockey enviorment ( ala carolina, pitts, washington ) Obivously die to see him with the habs but IF NOT, i hope it would be somewhere in Canada ( except the leafs )

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

You used Forbes as your source in your book report as your " Hockey Homework" and vast knowledge. Now you claim it's crap. I don't think you know what your talking about at all. .

My co-author used Forbes, I used NHL.com and the Levitt report. Forbes hasno access to the team's books. I think Levitt being authorized by the NHL would have a better idea. You claim the Leafs with little revenues are buying half the hockey players in the world and then say in the new world order they will struggle. You question whether fans will show up if (not bloody likely) the Leafs cannot field a winning team, yet don't seem to realize the Leafs have waiting lists for season tickets that takes 3 generations to reach the top of and could fill 5 ACCs. You minimize Ballard's effects on the team and overblow Spanos' contributions and did he even take possession of the team before getting carted off by the authorities? You show no understanding of how to add up revenues from different streams into one big pot to determine the whole picture and cling to a lost argument based on one number. And the REAL kicker was when you suggested the Ontario Teacher's pension pulling money from salaries! The OTPF has no say in the daily operations of the team. They don't contribute money they just collect on their investment.

As for the rest I have no interest in what you wrote. I do not engage in hockey discussion with someone who cannot conduct themselves within HF guidelines.

The battle cry of those who have fallen in battle.

 

[Icey]

it would be a shame to hockey if crosby landed in a non-hockey enviorment ( ala carolina, pitts, washington ) Obivously die to see him with the habs but IF NOT, i hope it would be somewhere in Canada ( except the leafs )

Crosby landing in "non-hockey environment" is exactly what the NHL needs. Think if Crosby lands in Phoenix what that would do for the Coyotes and Phoenix. People would be lining up to buy tickets to see this kid. But if he lands somewhere like Detroit, Toronoto, Vancouver, Edmonton then he just becomes another name on the roster. The NHL needs him in a non-hockey environment to save this game.

And remember in that weighted system that is so often referred to the team that gets to pick #1 doesn't pick again until #60 yet the team that picks #30 picks again at #31. So if you don't pick #1, I'd hope my team is lower to the bottom than the topin hopes of getting two quality picks rather than one pick who didn't end up being Crosby. Imagine the team picking #2 they get neither Crosby nor do t hey get to pick again until #59. Also all "traded" draft picks for the first and second rounds get moved to the next draft.

 

[Mess]

And remember in that weighted system that is so often referred to the team that gets to pick #1 doesn't pick again until #60 yet the team that picks #30 picks again at #31. So if you don't pick #1, I'd hope my team is lower to the bottom than the topin hopes of getting two quality picks rather than one pick who didn't end up being Crosby. Imagine the team picking #2 they get neither Crosby nor do t hey get to pick again until #59. Also all "traded" draft picks for the first and second rounds get moved to the next draft.

Interesting that you don't like the 1st and 60th method and 2nd and 59th .. but under the current entry draft system its 30th and 60th and 29th and 59th etc ..

Ist the current system much worse then the snake method suggested this year ??

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Considering the NHL did not have a television contract with ABC that would not be possible now would it? Yankees-Tigers were shown over Gretzky vs Pittsburgh. If I recall correctly MSG had to show the Yankee game and join hockey in progress.


You act as if they went into those seven years as an expansion team with low expectations as opposed to star driven teams with veterans expected to win.

I do not have to talk about the true attendace at Msg because enough Ranger fans talk about the empty/unsold seats without me.


Not as tired or lame as some argument that a team that is seventh in their market can sell hockey to a singular demographic of dwindling fans or media that barely acknowledge hockey.


Minnesota, Columbus, Colorado, Detroit, San Jose. With other teams that can carry their sport market for a peirod of time.

Gretzkys last game was on fox not msg. it was not joined in progress. please stop embarasing yourself for once.
i think most rangers fans expected the teams to fail the past 7 years.

please come up with attendance numbers at the garden. please do so. you talk about dwindling attendance yet the rangers continue to average over 18000 people. empty seats or not somebody is paying for the tickets something that can't be said for the islanders. (you know the islanders the team that will soon be playing in another city) oh wait they have a tv contract and nothing else

and finally college hockey is more popualar than the wild but i'll let that slide. ohio state sports is way more popular than the blue jackets. ever hear of the denver broncos? detriot is hockey town so i'll let you have that one. san jose has one team but is so close to the bay area that the 49ers a's giants and raiders are more popular than the sharks. you still can't name 5 cities which is awesome.

you have yet to win an argument with anybody. your views about crosby make most people laugh. you talk about how new york hockey writers don't write about hockey during the lockout but a poster proved you wrong there.

i love when you post about why crosby shouldn't come to the rangers.

oh man its always good for a laugh.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

This is the best part!! The Isladners are going to have a more lucrative television deal than the Leafs only because the Leafs are going to sell their television rights to Leafs TV for a $1.00. They will claim that as television rights revenues and then sell to CBC, TSN, SPORTSNET for a huge profit which will be in the Leafs TV (a separate company). Get ready to share some of that revenue small potatoes!

The Leafs have never had a problem selling out the building.

They can't keep their merchandise in stock.

The Isles will be lucky to get as much in total revenue as the Leafs make in hot dog sales! (that is if the 3rd banana in the hockey market and maybe tenth in the total market place manages to survive)

this post is awesome

the islanders are probably behind the li ducks and the metro stars. i like most islander fans they are loyal know there team and follow hockey. i'm sorry you have had to deal with one that gives them all a bad name. its a shame hockeys future made this guy a mod but i guess when your team has 8 fans that post its hard to find a mod

 

[Wisent]

link





Very bottom of the page

Here's a surprise.

 

[NYIsles1*]

Gretzkys last game was on fox not msg. it was not joined in progress. please stop embarasing yourself for once.

http://www.broadband-pbimedia.com/cgi/cw/show_mag.cgi?pub=cw&mon=042699&file=icing_cake_msg.inc

Icing On The Cake: MSG Subs Say Farewell to Gretzky
CABLE WORLD STAFF

Wayne Gretzky's final NHL game on April 18 delivered Madison Square Garden Network its highest rating for a New York Rangers regular-season game January 1995. But MSG scored a real coup when the pre-game retirement ceremonies for Gretzky, one of New York's most popular sports figures and the NHL all-time leading scorer, could only be seen on MSG.

MSG generated a 4.18 rating, or about 285,000 households from 3-3:25 p.m. for its exclusive New York coverage of Gretzky's retirement. Fox's Gotham affiliate WNYW-TV didn't even pick up the game until the end of the first period.

i think most rangers fans expected the teams to fail the past 7 years.

Yes, Ranger fans expected more than half a billion dollars to put the most expensive teams in NHL history on the ice were going to fail. In fact Ranger fans expected it was not good enough to even finish eighth out of sixteen teams once.

you have yet to win an argument with anybody. your views about crosby make most people laugh. you talk about how new york hockey writers don't write about hockey during the lockout but a poster proved you wrong there.

Well, considering Gretzky's last game was joined in progress I just won my first discussion with you. (I do not considering talking hockey an argument.)

Actually a few knowledgable folks see the same problems with the New York hockey market as I do (if you read the postings) and in terms of the NHL Crosby would be better off elsewhere than this oversaturated sports market. (which also includes the Isles)

Also just because each paper wrote one article (par for any hockey market) about the recent negotiation does not change anything about the lack of hockey features or coverage about the players, prospects or the teams in what you claim is the largest hockey market in the world. The other person disagrees, so be it, however my points were about hockey when it was still being played.

Kevin Dupoint in the Boston Globe today did a four part feature on the lockout, packed with information that goes well beyond Brooks anti-NHLPA rants, which is the only coverage on Sunday at all in a paper packed with countless articles and feature on everything but hockey.

If you think the Isles, Rangers or Devils posted attendance represents the seats actually sold for games, I disagree. I cannot disprove what an owner reports other than what Msg people at the ticket windows told me, television ratings, ads for available seats every game and my own eyes clearly suggest.

Finally, if you have a problem with me being a moderator, feel free to discuss it with the administrator of this site and keep it off the board.

 

[CREW99AW]

this post is awesome

the islanders are probably behind the li ducks and the metro stars. i like most islander fans they are loyal know there team and follow hockey. i'm sorry you have had to deal with one that gives them all a bad name. its a shame hockeys future made this guy a mod but i guess when your team has 8 fans that post its hard to find a mod

If that's your version of awesome,I'd like to see how you describe an informed post.

I thought all those took away from his argument,made me wonder how old the poster was.

and if you really feel the isles trail the ducks and the metro stars in terms of popularity on LI,that there are 8 fans,then you ought to quit commenting on the Isles because you're coming across as uniformed.


and NYIsles1 is very good mod.

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

If that's your version of awesome,I'd like to see how you describe an informed post.

I thought all those took away from his argument,made me wonder how old the poster was.

and if you really feel the isles trail the ducks and the metro stars in terms of popularity on LI,that there are 8 fans,then you ought to quit commenting on the Isles because you're coming across as uniformed.


and NYIsles1 is very good mod.

It was an awesome and informed post: The Isles are nowhere near the Leafs in terms of revenues and the Leafs are nowhere near trouble. The moderator of your board had a lot of ridiculous contradictions in his argument so after giving him reasonable responses and banging my head against a brick wall, I brought it down to his level. And I'll give you one thing: he is a good mod. The Isles board usually has relevant discussion topics started by your moderator. Who is doing what the title suggests: moderating discussion. Most of those with their names in blue are just out trying to be policemen, have little power in their life and now have an inflated sense of self importance. Good work on the Isles board by their moderator, just a little out of his element when discussing business and venturing into discussions about other teams.

 

[CREW99AW]

It was an awesome and informed post: The Isles are nowhere near the Leafs in terms of revenues and the Leafs are nowhere near trouble. The moderator of your board had a lot of ridiculous contradictions in his argument so after giving him reasonable responses and banging my head against a brick wall, I brought it down to his level. And I'll give you one thing: he is a good mod. The Isles board usually has relevant discussion topics started by your moderator. Who is doing what the title suggests: moderating discussion. Most of those with their names in blue are just out trying to be policemen, have little power in their life and now have an inflated sense of self importance. Good work on the Isles board by their moderator, just a little out of his element when discussing business and venturing into discussions about other teams.

Mayor of MacAppolis you posted that the nyi were one of 6-10 weak teams killing the league and said it was time for them to go.Wang's Isles have never declared bankruptcy,never asked the nhl to help them meet payroll.They have a very lucrative cable deal and Wang is working on a major renovation of the arena+a develop deal for the surrounding land.

You point out the isles lousy attendance records from 1989-2000.What you didn't point out was that during that time the Isles had a succession of rotten owners for a a decade.From Pickett who lived out of state and pocketed the lucrative cable $,while ordering the front office to keep payrolls among the league lowest to the billionaire Milsteins who weren't willing to put $ into payroll or needed arena,but demanded the cash strapped County build them a new arena.Of course fans used the only way of protest open to them,they stayed home and watched on tv.

last yr the isles had the 6th highest tix price in the nhl for a pretty mediocre on ice product and the attendance suffered for it.

 

[Icey]

Interesting that you don't like the 1st and 60th method and 2nd and 59th .. but under the current entry draft system its 30th and 60th and 29th and 59th etc ..

Ist the current system much worse then the snake method suggested this year ??

I never said I didn't like it, but in the current system teams are allowed to trade up or down for more picks. So a team could actually have 2, 3 4, or more first round draft picks. In the scheduled 2005 entry draft the Dallas Stars had 6 picks in the first two rounds, but under this suggested system that would not be allowed. Bettman also said teams would not be allowed to trade their first two round picks for later rounds.

So all I was saying if you don't get the #1 or possibly the #2 then pray for #27 because you will then be picking again at #34, but get #4 and you don't pick again until #56.

At the end of the day this is Bettman's call as to how this draft is run. There are fans, GM's and Owners who won't be happy, but he needs to set the rules and then stick to them, that is the most important issue with this draft.

 

[Mess]

I never said I didn't like it, but in the current system teams are allowed to trade up or down for more picks. So a team could actually have 2, 3 4, or more first round draft picks. In the scheduled 2005 entry draft the Dallas Stars had 6 picks in the first two rounds, but under this suggested system that would not be allowed. Bettman also said teams would not be allowed to trade their first two round picks for later rounds.

So all I was saying if you don't get the #1 or possibly the #2 then pray for #27 because you will then be picking again at #34, but get #4 and you don't pick again until #56.

At the end of the day this is Bettman's call as to how this draft is run. There are fans, GM's and Owners who won't be happy, but he needs to set the rules and then stick to them, that is the most important issue with this draft.

You make it sound like this is all locked in stone ... How could it be at this point ??

I am not even sure its Bettman's call alone to be honest .. The entry and its rules are part of the CBA .. That would suggest that the more then just Bettman makes the rules ..

I also do not understand why teams that traded their 2005 2nd picks would not lose them .. The Leafs for instance traded a 2nd to the NYR in the Leetch trade .. I see no reason why depending on where they pick in the 1st that the NYR should not recieve the 2nd rounder where the snake draft takes it .. Bettman would have more opposition by shoving thjose back a year .. All drafts are not equal in quality .. SO if a team traded a 2005 pick that is not a 2006 pick .. IS it ??