Rumor: 2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Thread: Post Deadline

[ABasin]

Without a doubt, the USHL to College route is the best development path now. The drop in quality in the CHL and the playing time/quality in Europe just makes the college route way better.

What do you think has driven this?

 

[henchman21]

What do you think has driven this?

Many factors, but they all compound. Probably most impactful is Canada's youth participation rate is lagging. Less are getting into the sport and even less are making to that level. The coaching quality is decreasing at U14 and lower levels. Most of the good youth coaches are moving on as there is really no pay and economics play a big role. You basically have to have from pros that settle back in the area at this point... and not as many as you'd hope do. Then the USHL has done a great job of developing talent and has a legit track record now. They produce the most NHLers and are now producing stars. They've become huge competition and successful to the point where we have #1 picks from Canada that would rather go USHL -> College. There are some other factors around import drafts, Covid (more economically than anything else), Hockey Canada nonsense, etc.

As rough as this is to say, I don't think in ~15 years, the QMJHL produces more than a handful of NHLers a year. Dub and OHL will hold on for longer, but the quality will certainly take more of a hit. Something has to change with the leadership to turn this around.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

What do you think has driven this?

I don't think European hockey is weaker quality, the best players are more spread around the whole Europe than ever before. Twenty years ago there were only few good leagues, now there's plenty. Hockeys top leagues are way more competitive today and there's more of them.

Finnish league used to be super high quality. Some of these teams were ridiculously good, especially 90s. TPS and Jokerit were absolutely ridiculous.

TPS 94-95, if you are over thirty you will definitely recognise few names even from NHL, and then international level:

TPS Turku 1994-95 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 1994-95 TPS Turku playing in the SM-liiga.

www.hockeydb.com

Jokerit 94-95:

Jokerit Helsinki 1994-95 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 1994-95 Jokerit Helsinki playing in the SM-liiga.

www.hockeydb.com

Now the talent is just more spread around. Imo.

I think Europe is becoming better and better imo

 

[henchman21]

I don't think European hockey is weaker quality, the best players are more spread around the whole Europe than ever before. Twenty years ago there were only few good leagues, now there's plenty. Hockeys top leagues are way more competitive today and there's more of them.

Finnish league used to be super high quality. Some of these teams were ridiculously good, especially 90s. TPS and Jokerit were absolutely ridiculous.

TPS 94-95, if you are over thirty you will definitely recognise few names even from NHL, and then international level:

TPS Turku 1994-95 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 1994-95 TPS Turku playing in the SM-liiga.

www.hockeydb.com

Jokerit 94-95:

Jokerit Helsinki 1994-95 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 1994-95 Jokerit Helsinki playing in the SM-liiga.

www.hockeydb.com

Now the talent is just more spread around. Imo.

I think Europe is becoming better and better imo

Europe as a whole is dramatically improving. The resurgence of Czechia and Slovakia play a role, but also German, Switzerland and even Norway getting in on the action has helped. Finland is the only country that I think has really struggled of late and they are coming off a period of 6-7 years of producing some elite talent.

The overall pool of talent in hockey is growing and getting a lot better. Canada has some pretty significant issues and headwinds they need to resolve.

 

[Chiarelli]

I don't disagree with any of the points above. However, it's not all doom and gloom. Canada is still producing elite talent better than any other nation in the world. No country comes close to Crosby, MacKinnon, McDavid, Makar, and Bedard over the last 20 years.

 

[LTCPain75]

I genuinely think that MacK would kick the shit out of him and potentially even throw Garland's helmet at him as well.

Nah, he would throw Marner's helmet at him then Big Moose would break a stick over him.

 

[missionAvs]

Nah, he would throw Marner's helmet at him then Big Moose would break a stick over him.

MacK's weapon of choice is Garland's helmet. We have the evidence to support this.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Europe as a whole is dramatically improving. The resurgence of Czechia and Slovakia play a role, but also German, Switzerland and even Norway getting in on the action has helped. Finland is the only country that I think has really struggled of late and they are coming off a period of 6-7 years of producing some elite talent.

The overall pool of talent in hockey is growing and getting a lot better. Canada has some pretty significant issues and headwinds they need to resolve.

I think it's a very positive sign. Hockey is becoming bigger sport.

 

[Hasbro]

I think it's a very positive sign. Hockey is becoming bigger sport.

And screw Canada.

We're taking your game bitches!

 

[GeoRox89]

Europe as a whole is dramatically improving. The resurgence of Czechia and Slovakia play a role, but also German, Switzerland and even Norway getting in on the action has helped. Finland is the only country that I think has really struggled of late and they are coming off a period of 6-7 years of producing some elite talent.

The overall pool of talent in hockey is growing and getting a lot better. Canada has some pretty significant issues and headwinds they need to resolve.

Hockey is turning more and more into a rich kids sport which really hurts enrolment. Times have changed too. Growing up in the 90s I knew 3 guys who played hockey but other than the kids who didn’t play team sports, everyone played soccer. Youth soccer enrolment has only increased since then and basketball has become a lot more popular. Hasn’t really amounted to much on the international stage beyond Davies but a lot of those kids who might’ve one day been NHLers are never even seeing the ice anymore

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Its pretty amazing that Canada has maintained its domination for so long. That it took so long for the US to catch is quite surprising given the maths involved. A string of humiliation will be needed to get rid of the God Syndrom at Hockey Canada. Then things will get cleaned-up. The latest scandals started the purge but it will take more than that.

 

[Pokecheque]

Marner crumbled with Nylander telling him to suck it up, he'd fly to another country, take up a new identity, and work as a humble item stocker at a supermarket if MacKinnon screamed at him.

Well if he ended up in Long Island he could get some work posting Patrick Roy's lineups every night.

 

[henchman21]

I don't disagree with any of the points above. However, it's not all doom and gloom. Canada is still producing elite talent better than any other nation in the world. No country comes close to Crosby, MacKinnon, McDavid, Makar, and Bedard over the last 20 years.

Agree. Took US forever to start producing elite talent. Will take time to surpass. Canada needs to get their shit together though. Especially with 36 teams soon.

 

[Foppa2118]

There's always ebs and flows. I doubt Canada will have a big fall off, and unlike Canada, I think the US will always take a backseat to other sports in terms of drawing in the best athletes.

There's no way to predict what it will be like in 15 years. The players entering the CHL by then are infants right now and the amount of turnover in coaches, GM's, scouts, league staff, etc in that time will be enormous.

I don't see enough to support that the US is on the verge of taking over. Canada still has the best players in both the NHL and the draft, and they had twice as many prospects as the US in the first round last year. Sweden had as many as the US did. Finland is unfortunately the one that has fallen off.

2023 Draft Top 10

Canada - 3
US - 2
Russia - 2
Sweden - 1

2023 Draft First Round

Canada - 12
US - 6
Sweden - 6
Russia - 4

2023-24 NHL Top 30 in Points

Canada - 12
US - 5
Sweden - 4
Finland - 3
Russia - 3

 

[Chiarelli]

Agree. Took US forever to start producing elite talent. Will take time to surpass. Canada needs to get their shit together though. Especially with 36 teams soon.

and they will. It's a natural progression for the sport and good for the game long term. I don't know what the 36 teams comment is referring to? More exposure to American talent?

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Hockey is turning more and more into a rich kids sport which really hurts enrolment. Times have changed too. Growing up in the 90s I knew 3 guys who played hockey but other than the kids who didn’t play team sports, everyone played soccer. Youth soccer enrolment has only increased since then and basketball has become a lot more popular. Hasn’t really amounted to much on the international stage beyond Davies but a lot of those kids who might’ve one day been NHLers are never even seeing the ice anymore

True. Hockey needs to fight the cost of hockey. It was expensive when I was a kid, like twenty years ago..

Even then most of the kids played soccer, the luckier and richer played hockey.

 

[henchman21]

and they will. It's a natural progression for the sport and good for the game long term. I don't know what the 36 teams comment is referring to? More exposure to American talent?

NHL expansion

 

[Chiarelli]

NHL expansion

you can have 4 more American teams if we can have the Vancouver Grizzlies back.

 

[henchman21]

you can have 4 more American teams if we can have the Vancouver Grizzlies back.

Best we can do is move the jets to Arizona.

 

[lionsDen]

And screw Canada.

We're taking your game bitches!

Actually lactose is the national Canadian sport

 

[MacKaRant]

And screw Canada.

We're taking your game bitches!

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

There's always ebs and flows. I doubt Canada will have a big fall off, and unlike Canada, I think the US will always take a backseat to other sports in terms of drawing in the best athletes.

There's no way to predict what it will be like in 15 years. The players entering the CHL by then are infants right now and the amount of turnover in coaches, GM's, scouts, league staff, etc in that time will be enormous.

I don't see enough to support that the US is on the verge of taking over. Canada still has the best players in both the NHL and the draft, and they had twice as many prospects as the US in the first round last year. Sweden had as many as the US did. Finland is unfortunately the one that has fallen off.

2023 Draft Top 10

Canada - 3
US - 2
Russia - 2
Sweden - 1

2023 Draft First Round

Canada - 12
US - 6
Sweden - 6
Russia - 4

2023-24 NHL Top 30 in Points

Canada - 12
US - 5
Sweden - 4
Finland - 3
Russia - 3

We used to produce more elite goaltenders than Maple sirup... now look at what we'll have for the coming World Cup... its frightening...

 

[Hasbro]

Actually lactose is the national Canadian sport

They play it in bags there.

 

[RockLobster]

Actually lactose is the national Canadian sport

 

[BobRossColton]

@The Abusement Park would you trade Mikko for one of Jarvis or Necas?