GDT: 2023 NHL Playoffs

[Terry Yake]

That’s why I think it’s funny when people think that we are one of the best drafting teams. We might be above average, particularly for two way defensemen, but we are that much better than above average. We haven’t been able to find a real number 1 defensemen in the draft, or find as many late pick stars outside of Terry, or even many core grinders.

Another interesting note is that Bryan Murray was both the GM for our famous 2003 draft and he also was the GM or the Senators when they drafted Stone. During his tenure there he was also able to find stars like Karlsson, Chabot, Zibanejad, and our boy Silfverberg. Burke may have been that guy who was able to make some successful big trades and also convince stars to sign with our team to build a championship, but Murray helped build the foundation and showed he might have had the best eye for talent that our organization ever had. Plus I will always remember him scaring the crap out of Jim Fox for insulting commentary during a game.

agreed. burke added the finishing touches to our cup winning team, but murray set the foundation by drafting/acquiring guys like getzlaf, perry, mcdonald, and giguere. there's no denying he had a great eye for spotting talent

 

[DavidBL]

Don't see too many people talking about the fact that teams didn't do enough to ensure the expansion wouldn't put them in a horrible position. There was plenty of time to make the necessary moves to improve each team's situation and most just opted for making deals with Vegas.

In essence, Vegas just said "lol ok, thanks" and went on their merry way.

It was pretty widely reported that if teams made deals that hurt Vegas expansion options Vegas wouldn't deal with those teams. Teams weren't fixing their situation with 1 deal in most cases so it made sense to deal with just one team in Vegas than trying to find multiple solutions. Vegas manipulated that summer wonderfully.

 

[cheesymc]

So after Vegas won the Cup, we definitely deserve a higher pick from the botched trade last year. Its only fair... please Bettman!

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

It was pretty widely reported that if teams made deals that hurt Vegas expansion options Vegas wouldn't deal with those teams. Teams weren't fixing their situation with 1 deal in most cases so it made sense to deal with just one team in Vegas than trying to find multiple solutions. Vegas manipulated that summer wonderfully.

Oh, so it would be just like how it was before.

 

[DavidBL]

Oh, so it would be just like how it was before.

No, because you still had the expansion draft to deal with unlike before. The point was that teams were unlikely going to be able to cover all their issues with 1 trade unless that trade was with Vegas.

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

So after Vegas won the Cup, we definitely deserve a higher pick from the botched trade last year. Its only fair... please Bettman!

I'm reasonable

I'll settle for the lottery being redone

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

No, because you still had the expansion draft to deal with unlike before. The point was that teams were unlikely going to be able to cover all their issues with 1 trade unless that trade was with Vegas.

Whoosh. The point was that's a laughable threat for Vegas to make since it was the status quo before their existence.

Vegas: "If you don't deal with us then we won't deal with you!"

Team A: "Uh, ok. What about the other 29 teams we can and have been dealing with?"

Vegas: "..."

To your second point, there were teams that could've greatly improved their situation with one trade. Even for the teams that couldn't, there was plenty of time to make more than one trade. There was a whole year to wheel and deal from the moment the expansion was announced to the moment the draft took place. What's more, the expansion wasn't a secret. Teams would've known about it well ahead of time - they had to agree to it, after all.

And I get your point about it being easier to just deal directly with Vegas. I'm not disputing the convenience factor. The point was that Vegas benefitted because teams didn't find alternative means to deal with their problems.

The teams learned though. GM's (especially ours at the time) are known to be far more reactive than proactive. Didn't see too many deals go down with Seattle.

 

[DavidBL]

Whoosh. The point was that's a laughable threat for Vegas to make since it was the status quo before their existence.

Vegas: "If you don't deal with us then we won't deal with you!"

Team A: "Uh, ok. What about the other 29 teams we can and have been dealing with?"

Vegas: "..."

To your second point, there were teams that could've greatly improved their situation with one trade. Even for the teams that couldn't, there was plenty of time to make more than one trade. There was a whole year to wheel and deal from the moment the expansion was announced to the moment the draft took place. What's more, the expansion wasn't a secret. Teams would've known about it well ahead of time - they had to agree to it, after all.

And I get your point about it being easier to just deal directly with Vegas. I'm not disputing the convenience factor. The point was that Vegas benefitted because teams didn't find alternative means to deal with their problems.

The teams learned though. GM's (especially ours at the time) are known to be far more reactive than proactive. Didn't see too many deals go down with Seattle.

I think you are vastly overestimating teams abilities to make moves. Yes some could do a single move and be in better position, but what if that one move was with another team that needed to make multiple? That second team then says they can't make that deal as it would affect their situation with Vegas. This was widely reported after the draft.

I do agree that teams learned for the Kraken draft, I think they were less worried about protecting their current roster after the allotted protection slots.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

If you need any copium: the thing that’s allowed them to exceed the cap so much might now be the thing that closes their window a bit. Unless these surgeries have fixed these issues for good you’ve definitely gotta wonder how much more Mark Stone is gonna play through now that he’s won it all.

I'll take what I can get because I couldn't get much saltier.

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

I think you are vastly overestimating teams abilities to make moves. Yes some could do a single move and be in better position, but what if that one move was with another team that needed to make multiple? That second team then says they can't make that deal as it would affect their situation with Vegas. This was widely reported after the draft.

I do agree that teams learned for the Kraken draft, I think they were less worried about protecting their current roster after the allotted protection slots.

Any team has the ability to make a trade at almost any time. There's no estimation - it's the reality. Whether teams decide to or not is up to them.

The fact that teams opted to engage with Vegas instead of each other was to their detriment and Vegas' benefit. That's all I'm saying.

And the scenario that you pose as "reported" really only proves my other point about GM's being reactive. You're telling me they'd rather do nothing or take the easy way out and complain to the media about how hard it is to make deals with each other? Shocker.

 

[Son of Gib]

Anyone still tripling down on that "Eichel will be bad after his surgery" narrative?

 

[DavidBL]

Any team has the ability to make a trade at almost any time. There's no estimation - it's the reality. Whether teams decide to or not is up to them.

The fact that teams opted to engage with Vegas instead of each other was to their detriment and Vegas' benefit. That's all I'm saying.

And the scenario that you pose as "reported" really only proves my other point about GM's being reactive. You're telling me they'd rather do nothing or take the easy way out and complain to the media about how hard it is to make deals with each other? Shocker.

When were they supposed to make those trades, during the season and potentially hurt their own playoff chances? I suppose you can work on trades in preparation for the offseason, that is fair. Deals generally take time and a lot of the time they don't amount to anything. I guess we'll just have to disagree on this point.

 

[70sSanO]

IIRC, we gave Theodore to Vegas so they wouldn’t take Vatanen and then traded Vatanen to New Jersey.

I thought it was done so we wouldn’t lose Vatanen for nothing. The mentality of not losing someone for nothing probably caused some GM’s to try and shelter ones they couldn’t protect.

The big issue was the protection format; and bad NMC that players wouldn’t waive. I imagine a lot of those NMC players are no longer in the league; which makes things even worse in hindsight.

John

 

[70sSanO]

But Florida’s deal is the one that really came back to bite them. That was less about Vegas taking advantage and more about Tallon being an idiot.

John

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

When were they supposed to make those trades, during the season and potentially hurt their own playoff chances? I suppose you can work on trades in preparation for the offseason, that is fair. Deals generally take time and a lot of the time they don't amount to anything. I guess we'll just have to disagree on this point.

Looks like you answered your own question.

Trades that take a lot of time that don't amount to anything aren't trades - they're nothing.

If the circumstances warrant immediate action, teams sure find a way to whittle down those extensive timelines. I think where we disagree is that I'm not as lenient to the notion that GMs can't be proactive. We see it twice a year at the draft and trade deadline. I'm sure some of those deals didn't come to fruition out of thin air on that day, but I never made that argument in regards to other teams prior to the expansion draft. Quite the opposite - they had plenty of time.

Besides, if they had enough time to work out a deal with Vegas then they sure had enough time to work out a deal with each other beforehand. I don't buy the argument that they didn't have enough time.

 

[Rybread86]

IIRC, we gave Theodore to Vegas so they wouldn’t take Vatanen and then traded Vatanen to New Jersey.

I thought it was done so we wouldn’t lose Vatanen for nothing. The mentality of not losing someone for nothing probably caused some GM’s to try and shelter ones they couldn’t protect.

The big issue was the protection format; and bad NMC that players wouldn’t waive. I imagine a lot of those NMC players are no longer in the league; which makes things even worse in hindsight.

John

It was a combination of things. They also took Stoner off our hands.

Murray decided that dumping Stoners contract and protecting some of our young D was worth trading Theodore.

 

[Deuce22]

Anyone still tripling down on that "Eichel will be bad after his surgery" narrative?

He should have listened to Buffalo's doctors, said the internet physicians.

 

[Deuce22]

It was a combination of things. They also took Stoner off our hands.

Murray decided that dumping Stoners contract and protecting some of our young D was worth trading Theodore.

Murray apologists will tell you that he had no choice, but he did. And he made the wrong one. Poor job of evaluating young talent within the organization. The Murray people also forget who gave Stoner that horrible deal.

 

[duckaroosky]

I don't care what rationalizations you guys come up with to stomach a Vegas Stanley Cup... f*** them hoes

 

[Rybread86]

Murray apologists will tell you that he had no choice, but he did. And he made the wrong one. Poor job of evaluating young talent within the organization. The Murray people also forget who gave Stoner that horrible deal.

ya it was a bad deal all around. Stoner wasnt killing us and even at the time I would have rather kept Theodore. I was never a big Vatanen fan.

 

[Deuce22]

ya it was a bad deal all around. Stoner wasnt killing us and even at the time I would have rather kept Theodore. I was never a big Vatanen fan.

I liked Vatanen but it was easy to see Theodore’s upside.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Main boards never disappoint, now you can read that Eichel is better than McDavid... Aneurysm level stuff.

He should have listened to Buffalo's doctors, said the internet physicians.

Can't beat Google doctors, people haven't wasted hours of their lives typing Google queries just for some loser with an elitist diploma tell them what's what.

 

[70sSanO]

Not to go back to 2017, but Bieksa not waiving his NMC was not the only issue.

With the benefit of hindsight, Kesler was a shell of his former self after the 2017 playoff run. It is doubtful he would have passed a physical if he waived his NMC and Vegas took him.

Perry was also pretty beat up and began a downward spiral and eventual buyout. If he wasn’t going to have surgery, if would have helped if he also waived his NMC.

Without those 3, it would have let the Ducks go the 8 skater route.

Of course this is all if I knew then what I know now.

John

 

[duckaroosky]

Oof

 

[Leonardo87]

Oof

Great. Will never hear the end of this. To be honest. Thought the series was bad. I only watched 3 of the 5 games, and turned off Game 2 early. Last night, turned if off till the end, because wanted to see the cup handed out.